blackbird Posted October 13, 2024 Author Report Posted October 13, 2024 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Old Guy said: I do believe Israel has a right to exist and I think most Muslims do as well. You're wrong there. Muslims do not think Israel has a right to exist. This has been going on for centuries. That is the central problem. That was Israel's land thousands of years ago. They were forced out and it has been a continual struggle for them all through history. The book "God's First Love, Christians and Jews over 2,000 years by Friedrich Heer tells the history of the mass murder of Jews over the past fifteen centuries. They certainly have a right to their own homeland. It was theirs and should be theirs now without question. The word Palestine is just a general name for the area which may have been given to the area by the Romans. They called the people living in the area Palestinians. There are lots of Arabs in the area but also in Lebanon, Jordon, and other countries around there. They are full of terrorist supporters. There will not be peace for the foreseeable future because of that. Nothing will change that. The Muslims hate Israel and Jews and think they have no right to exist because they are not Muslims. Islam invaded the area centuries ago and claims it for themselves. There are lots of Muslim countries in the surrounding area that would fit the Muslims if they can't accept being part of Israel, but those countries don't want them. I have a question for you. Why was the Islamic Dome of the Rock built on the historic Jewish temple mount in Jerusalem in about 700 A.D.? The Jewish temple was built in 957 bce during the reign of King Solomon. Why would Muslims build their Dome of the Rock on top of the Jews most holy site? Edited October 13, 2024 by blackbird Quote
herbie Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 25 minutes ago, blackbird said: Why would Muslims build their Dome of the Rock on top of the Jews most holy site? Same reason someone wold carve a mountain into ugly Presidents faces. To belittle what came before them. Just like how no matter how many times JT expresses support for Israel to defend itself and how Hamas must release the hostages, some people will lie though their teeth that he didn't and claim that as weakness, simply because they're jerks that hate JT's guts. Just as south of us the same sort of people say the same thing about Biden repeatedly. Quote
Army Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 6 hours ago, eyeball said: The league of nations had no business giving it. See that story recently about police seizing stolen vintage cars from owners who'd possessed them for years? Too bad so sad eh? Tell that to them, did not belong to the palestinians either...but to the ottoman empire....which no longer existed... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 5 hours ago, Old Guy said: Unless the Zionists are prepared to kill every Palestinian child in Gaza and the West Bank they are creating a generation that will grow up knowing that their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, friends were killed when a missile or a bomb demolished their home. What do you think they'll want to do when they grow up? I honestly don't think you have any concept of what it might be like growing up in a prison. Palestinians used to have a homeland which has been seriously shrunk and which they have to ask permission to leave. As an "Army Guy" I would have thought you would be appalled to hear that two Peace Keepers were injured when they came under fire by Zionist forces. A short news report on the incident can be found here Re-read what I wrote I actually said they (Zionists) needed to rein in their over reach or they would loose support in Europe. Please spare me the tears....they are going to grow up to be terrorist, thats what they learn from day one in school and at home....But some how thats the Israelis fault.... Give me a break, have you been to Gaza ? or did you read that on the intra net...Home land where , what was it called... And do you cross into the states without a passport, or permission.... You think this is the first time peace keepers have come under fire...I've done a peace keeping mission before never again, they are a useless organization that a regular street cop do better than a bunch of soldiers....someone in the UN HQ's made that call to remain in place and observe, UN sucks at peace keeping period........What do you think happens in a war zone anyway.... They, the zionist have already lost most of their support in europe and around the world...with only a very few nations that agree to assist them....even Canada has given them the finger....so do you really think they care about what happens in europe....Like i said before they are doing the globe a great favor in getting rid these terrorist groups....we should be thanking them... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Old Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 13 minutes ago, eyeball said: No they're a lot more like the IDF alright. He will need to look up what the IDF is and then he might stumble across how the IDF was first formed from three Zionist paramilitary organization one of which was labeled by the US and UK as a terrorist group. Quote
Army Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 2 hours ago, August1991 said: I disagree. Israel has no support. ===== But far more important, we in the West do not want war. Tell me which nations support Israel other than US and the UK.... BS the west is always involved in one or more wars or conflicts forever....., you just have not been paying attention... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Old Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Tell me which nations support Israel other than US and the UK.... BS the west is always involved in one or more wars or conflicts forever....., you just have not been paying attention... Israel had almost total support a year ago but over time and because of their far and away disproportionate response that support is disappearing. 1 Quote
Old Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 2 hours ago, blackbird said: You're wrong there. Muslims do not think Israel has a right to exist. This has been going on for centuries. That is the central problem. So then according to your belief When Jordan, Egypt, the UAE, Morocco, Bahrain and Sudan with Qatar and Saudi Arabia to follow their Muslim populations stopped being Muslim. More correctly that land has been occupied by Semitic peoples for thousands of years. You probably didn't know that Arabs are a Semitic people along with the Jews. It has nothing to do with religion since there are Jews, Muslims, Christian and Gnostics. 2 hours ago, blackbird said: have a question for you. Why was the Islamic Dome of the Rock built on the historic Jewish temple mount in Jerusalem in about 700 A.D.? The Jewish temple was built in 957 bce during the reign of King Solomon. Why would Muslims build their Dome of the Rock on top of the Jews most holy site? There seems to be competing explanations as to the motive. I'm sorry that you choose to live in a world where there is a boogy man round every corner. Are you by any chance a conservative. Quote
eyeball Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Tell that to them, did not belong to the palestinians either...but to the ottoman empire....which no longer existed... So you would have just submitted, bowed your head and moved out of your house at gunpoint with your deed to the land your family had lived in for generations in your pocket and sucked it up? I'd resist myself but that's just me I guess. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: He will need to look up what the IDF is and then he might stumble across how the IDF was first formed from three Zionist paramilitary organization one of which was labeled by the US and UK as a terrorist group. Wait until he finds out they also sought the help of Axis powers and killed Jews who got in their way. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
blackbird Posted October 13, 2024 Author Report Posted October 13, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, Old Guy said: So then according to your belief When Jordan, Egypt, the UAE, Morocco, Bahrain and Sudan with Qatar and Saudi Arabia to follow their Muslim populations stopped being Muslim. That sentence is faulty and doesn't make sense. What are you trying to say? 3 hours ago, Old Guy said: More correctly that land has been occupied by Semitic peoples for thousands of years. You probably didn't know that Arabs are a Semitic people along with the Jews. It has nothing to do with religion since there are Jews, Muslims, Christian and Gnostics. You're not making sense there either. Of course it has been occupied by Semitic peoples for thousands of years. So what? Yes, of course I know Arabs are Semitic people along with Jews. Again, So what is your point? Saying it has nothing to do with religion is just wrong. Of course it has a lot to do with religion. But we are not going to solve anything here in the west. There is an age old struggle going on between Jews and Arabs. Many of them are Islamic extremists and as you well know, they don't accept the right of Israel to exist. So, there is not much we can do about that. Israel is a friend of the west and a democracy. They need to be protected from all their hostile neighbours and terrorists. We can't stop what the Muslims and Arabs feel about them. All we can do is offer assistance when necessary to Israel so they can defend themselves. We can't change the thinking of people in the middle east. Nor should we try. I don't see much point in trying to continue this conversation. We don't see it the same way and neither of us is going to change anything. So it is time to end it. Edited October 13, 2024 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted October 13, 2024 Author Report Posted October 13, 2024 4 hours ago, Old Guy said: More correctly that land has been occupied by Semitic peoples for thousands of years. I am not sure you even understand Israel's right to exist. The Bible makes it clear God gave that land to Israel in perpetuity. So if you won't believe the Bible and accept Israel's right to exist, I don't see any way we could possibly have a useful discussion. Those who don't believe the Bible are of course going to be completely lost on the subject. That is the case for many countries in the world, including Canada. The Canadian government advocates a two-state solution, which shows they have no understanding of the reality or the fact Israel has a right to the land. Carving up an already tiny country which is surrounded by enemies who want to get rid of it is of course a non-starter for Israel. It would be a threat to their very existence. Quote
Venandi Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 A statement: I do believe Israel has a right to exist and I think most Muslims do as well. A question: Why would Muslims build their Dome of the Rock on top of the Jews most holy site? An answer: Same reason someone wold carve a mountain into ugly Presidents faces. To belittle what came before them. And... an appropriate analogy: Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 (edited) On 10/11/2024 at 3:12 PM, blackbird said: " Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly shockingly admitted her riding’s demographics influence her foreign policies and is attempting to bolster her leadership prospects. With that background, she refused to send lethal and even non-lethal weapons to Israel Why, Israel is not killing enough innocent people in Gaza and Lebanon that they need even more lethal weapons? Next time you are in church pray for more lethal weapons for Israel so that they can kill more. God save us if religious fanatics take over our land. We stand on guard for thee. Edited October 13, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 22 hours ago, Army Guy said: The fact they are engaged with the two largest terrorist groups on the globe, is telling they are making the world a safer place and your saying they should be reined in becasue what ? you like terrorist, you don't like how conflicts are fought... The largest terrorist group is the Islamic Republic of Iran Israel has to take on real hard (The regime not the people or country of Iran). This is the head of octopus. What you described as largest terrorist groups are just the legs of octopus. They will die without the head. Quote
blackbird Posted October 13, 2024 Author Report Posted October 13, 2024 1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Why, Israel is not killing enough innocent people in Gaza and Lebanon that they need even more lethal weapons? Nobody is saying they should kill innocent people in Gaza and Lebanon. You are inventing a false narrative and trying to use it against Christianity. Complete foolishness and dishonesty. Israel has a right to defend itself and is trying to root out the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists who hide in hospitals and build bunkers and tunnels underneath and put their weapons and missiles where ever there are civilians. That is why Israel says to leave the places where they will be looking for terrorists. Quote
blackbird Posted October 13, 2024 Author Report Posted October 13, 2024 " In an interview with the Jewish News Syndicate last month, Cotler spoke of his fellow Liberals. “The Canadian government made some important and timely statements but the actions it has taken have not been supportive,” Cotler said . Regarding the arms embargo on Israel announced by Joly: “Doing that, in the midst of a just war that Israel is prosecuting as it exerts its right to self-defence, means rewarding Hamas. While it is not the intention, it ends up being the effect.” " Israeli officials were keen for the visits, especially that of U.S. President Joe Biden. They requested a visit and Biden agreed. Within roughly a fortnight of the attacks, Biden was on the ground in Tel Aviv. The heads of government of Cyprus, France, Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands, Romania and the United Kingdom visited in the first three weeks, as well as the head of the European Union. That’s five of the G7 countries. The sixth, Japan’s prime minister, met with Israel’s president in Dubai in December. That leaves the seventh, Canada. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau decided not to visit. He still hasn’t. Indeed, in nine years as prime minister, Trudeau has only made one visit to Israel, for the 2016 funeral of former Israeli prime minister Shimon Peres. He could hardly have stayed away from that. Even Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was present, as well as the Prince of Wales; two U.S. presidents spoke at the memorial. More remarkable still, Israeli officials have not been keen for Trudeau to come. Friends of Israel in Canada, including leading Jewish organizations, have not been encouraging him to visit, either. Better to keep a lukewarm friend at a distance. Whether Trudeau and Joly are accused of pandering by their partisan rivals is not of great import. Pandering, after all, is a negative term for virtue signalling, which the Liberals pride themselves on doing, at the ready to take a knee for the cameras. They just do so without a clear moral compass. Joly objects to Poilievre’s criticism that she panders to Hamas supporters. But would she object as strongly if she realized what Hamas itself thought of her?" Raymond J. de Souza: Trudeau and Joly have made Canada into Hamas's greatest G7 ally (msn.com) Quote
blackbird Posted October 13, 2024 Author Report Posted October 13, 2024 2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Why, Israel is not killing enough innocent people in Gaza and Lebanon that they need even more lethal weapons? Why do you think Israel has no right to defend itself? How would you do it? How would you eliminate Hamas? Or do you think they should be left to attack again? Quote
Old Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: And do you cross into the states without a passport, or permission.... A farmer leaving his village to tend his olive grove may very well have to produce his papers. He may also run into a militant settler and be beaten up or even killed. The IDF can and does enter the West Bank in force without Palestinian permission. Comparing the border between countries is completely different because Israel occupies all of Palestine through its control of where and when Palestinian people can go. Quote
Old Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 55 minutes ago, blackbird said: " In an interview with the Jewish News Syndicate last month, Cotler spoke of his fellow Liberals. “The Canadian government made some important and timely statements but the actions it has taken have not been supportive,” Cotler said . Regarding the arms embargo on Israel announced by Joly: “Doing that, in the midst of a just war that Israel is prosecuting as it exerts its right to self-defence, means rewarding Hamas. While it is not the intention, it ends up being the effect.” " Israeli officials were keen for the visits, especially that of U.S. President Joe Biden. They requested a visit and Biden agreed. Within roughly a fortnight of the attacks, Biden was on the ground in Tel Aviv. The heads of government of Cyprus, France, Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands, Romania and the United Kingdom visited in the first three weeks, as well as the head of the European Union. That’s five of the G7 countries. The sixth, Japan’s prime minister, met with Israel’s president in Dubai in December. That leaves the seventh, Canada. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau decided not to visit. He still hasn’t. Indeed, in nine years as prime minister, Trudeau has only made one visit to Israel, for the 2016 funeral of former Israeli prime minister Shimon Peres. He could hardly have stayed away from that. Even Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was present, as well as the Prince of Wales; two U.S. presidents spoke at the memorial. More remarkable still, Israeli officials have not been keen for Trudeau to come. Friends of Israel in Canada, including leading Jewish organizations, have not been encouraging him to visit, either. Better to keep a lukewarm friend at a distance. Whether Trudeau and Joly are accused of pandering by their partisan rivals is not of great import. Pandering, after all, is a negative term for virtue signalling, which the Liberals pride themselves on doing, at the ready to take a knee for the cameras. They just do so without a clear moral compass. Joly objects to Poilievre’s criticism that she panders to Hamas supporters. But would she object as strongly if she realized what Hamas itself thought of her?" Raymond J. de Souza: Trudeau and Joly have made Canada into Hamas's greatest G7 ally (msn.com) Wow he finally did something right. I hope that if Netanyahu succeeds in drawing the US into a war with Iran we stay out of that as well but with PP the professional politician I'm afraid we will. Quote
Old Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 12 hours ago, blackbird said: The Bible makes it clear God gave that land to Israel in perpetuity. So if you won't believe the Bible and accept Israel's right to exist, I don't see any way we could possibly have a useful discussion. Well it will be difficult to not respond to your deranged rants but I will do my best. Enjoy your fairy tales. But I will continue to believe that Israel as a country has a right to exist as does Palestine. The difference is that Israel will have to agree that Palestine also has a right to exist and they will have to share the land as they agreed to do. Quote
suds Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 (edited) 17 hours ago, eyeball said: So you would have just submitted, bowed your head and moved out of your house at gunpoint with your deed to the land your family had lived in for generations in your pocket and sucked it up? I'd resist myself but that's just me I guess. Would have never happened if the Arabs agreed to the UN Partition Plan (Resolution 181). In plain language, Palestine would have been partitioned into Arab and Jewish states with Jerusalem under international control. Both Arabs and Jews (upon independence) would have become automatic citizens of the state they resided in (outside of Jerusalem) with all full civil and political rights. Arabs over 18 residing in the Jewish state would have had 1 year to decide whether to stay or move to the Arab state, and same for Jews residing in the Arab state at the time of independence. Basically, Resolution 181 would have become part of any future constitution drawn up by either party. But no, war was a better option. Edited October 13, 2024 by suds Quote
suds Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 21 hours ago, Old Guy said: I do believe Israel has a right to exist and I think most Muslims do as well. Oh and I'm not an Islamist. I can't speak for 1.7 billion Muslims but I'm fairly certain the vast majority of Palestinians don't support Israel's right to exist. And perhaps the question should be if Israel had the right to exist as a Jewish state. Quote
Army Guy Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: A farmer leaving his village to tend his olive grove may very well have to produce his papers. He may also run into a militant settler and be beaten up or even killed. The IDF can and does enter the West Bank in force without Palestinian permission. Comparing the border between countries is completely different because Israel occupies all of Palestine through its control of where and when Palestinian people can go. Gaza is under Hamas care and control, there was o Israelis military or civilian people in there prior to Oct 7...Israelis are not or were not allowed in to Gaza...however Israelis did allow workers to work inside of Israel.... West bank is under Israelis military control, it is occupied...hence why has free reign over the entire area....Becasue there are no borders, Palestinians still require permission to travel into Israel or they stay in the west bank...not sure why that is so hard to understand... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted October 13, 2024 Report Posted October 13, 2024 3 hours ago, blackbird said: Nobody is saying they should kill innocent people in Gaza and Lebanon. You are inventing a false narrative and trying to use it against Christianity. Complete foolishness and dishonesty. Israel has a right to defend itself and is trying to root out the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists who hide in hospitals and build bunkers and tunnels underneath and put their weapons and missiles where ever there are civilians. That is why Israel says to leave the places where they will be looking for terrorists. They are not only killing Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists but also have killed over 11000 women and children who these fu*king terrorists used as human shields. When you say Israel should be given more lethal weapons knowing full well that these weapons will be used in populated areas and kill more women and children, you are actually supporting the more killing. It is not the Christianity that I have problem with. It is those who use or abuse religion to forward their evil goals. If there is one true religion in the whole world, that religion is Christianity. Christ never killed anyone in his entire life and was about love and peace and now those claiming tp follow him are calling for more use of lethal weapons against defenseless civilians is shocking. Quote
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