Why do we need mass immigration again?

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

More canaries...

Scientists have more evidence to explain why billions of crabs vanished around Alaska

The study underlines “how much this Bering Sea ecosystem has already changed from what it was even within the lifetime of one snow crab fisherman,” said Michael Litzow, lead author of the study and the director for Alaska’s Kodiak lab for NOAA Fisheries.

...

The decline of the Alaskan snow crab signals a wider ecosystem change in the Arctic, as oceans warm and sea ice disappears.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/climate/alaska-crabs-disappear-arctic/index.html

We need millions more people like we need a hole in the head.

Or things change. Change is constant.  IF things didn't change we wouldn't be here. 

If you really cared about climate change  you'd have done something about it during the 10 years justin was in power instead of promoting a useless carbon tax. 

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Immigration must be reduced to a level that is at or lower than our increase in capacity to support it. 

That's right, our population and growth cannot exceed the capacity of our ecosystems to support them.

Like everywhere else on the planet we've passed that point in North America too.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's right, our population and growth cannot exceed the capacity of our ecosystems to support them.

 

Well that won't happen till we hit about 400 million plus, so that's not currently an issue. 

And you seem to have a comprehension problem.  I didn't say ecosystem. Or is it an honesty problem you have? I suppose two things can be true  

Quote

Like everywhere else on the planet we've passed that point in North America too.

Not even remotely close. Especially not in Canada.

But if you believed that you would have done something while the environmentalists were in complete power over the last 10 years instead of pushing a useless carbon tax that did nothing. 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If you really cared about climate change  you'd have done something about it during the 10 years justin was in power instead of promoting a useless carbon tax. 

Useless in the hands of Trudeau perhaps but nonetheless the majority of economists maintain its the most effective way to change how we use fossil fuels, which is to say by pushing us towards using less.

I did do something, I swapped out my old inefficiently insulated windows and installed more efficient insulation everywhere else around my buildings. I've also been kept apace with the latest new efficient engines running our boats.

If you really cared about having an adult discussion with people you'd do something other than say they support Trudeau if they disagree with you.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Or things change. Change is constant.  IF things didn't change we wouldn't be here. 

And somethings things never change like steadfast denial. That's why we're here.

[Nefarious Banana]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 I swapped out my old inefficiently insulated windows and installed more efficient insulation everywhere else around my buildings. I've also been kept apace with the latest new efficient engines running our boats.

What boat power did you have, and what did you re-power with?

[Dougie93]

On 8/18/2024 at 7:39 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Anyway, population growth has been a mainstay of capitalism... "Sustainability" has not.  The alternatives are definitely interesting though.

it's all about the debt rendering the economy into a Ponzi scheme

wherein you need to get suckers to join the scheme to prop it up

the immigrants are those suckers

these are the wages of moral hazard

[NAME REMOVED]

On 8/19/2024 at 9:04 AM, blackbird said:

To have children or not have children boils down to one's relationship with God. If there is no relationship, then the person or couple is on their own and likely to decide on purely selfish reasons.  Abortion is common and is used as a form of birth control.  This deprives a baby of it's life and is wrong.  God recognizes the pre-born as persons and human life belongs to God.  So abortion is an extreme violation of the Biblical principle of the sanctity of human life.

As for birth control:

quote

Modern birth control methods were unknown in Bible times, and the Bible is, therefore, silent on the matter. The Bible does have quite a lot to say about children, however. The Bible presents children as a gift from God (Genesis 4:1; Genesis 33:5), a heritage from the Lord (Psalm 127:3-5), a blessing from God (Luke 1:42), and a crown to the aged (Proverbs 17:6). God sometimes blesses barren women with children (Psalm 113:9; Genesis 21:1-3; 25:21-22; 30:1-2; 1 Samuel 1:6-8; Luke 1:7, 24-25). God forms children in the womb (Psalm 139:13-16). God knows children before their birth (Jeremiah 1:5; Galatians 1:15).

The closest that Scripture comes to condemning birth control is Genesis chapter 38, the account of Judah’s sons Er and Onan. Er married a woman named Tamar, but he was wicked and the Lord put him to death, leaving Tamar with no husband or children. Tamar was given in marriage to Er’s brother, Onan, in accordance with the law of levirate marriage in Deuteronomy 25:5-6. Onan did not want to split his inheritance with any child that he might produce on his brother’s behalf, so he practiced the oldest form of birth control, withdrawal. Genesis 38:10 says, “What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so He put him to death also.” Onan’s motivation was selfish; he used Tamar for his own pleasure, but refused to perform his legal duty of creating an heir for his deceased brother. This passage is often used as evidence that God does not approve of birth control. However, it was not the act of contraception that caused the Lord to put Onan to death; it was Onan’s selfish motives behind the action. Therefore, we can find no biblical admonition against the use of birth control in and of itself.

Contraception, by definition, is merely the opposite of conception. It is not the use of contraception that is wrong or right. As we learned from Onan, it is the motivation behind the contraception that determines if it is right or wrong. Married couples use contraception for a variety of reasons. Some feel called to put off childbearing until they are in a better position to care for children. Some, such as missionary couples, may feel their service to God overrides the desire for children at a particular point in time. Some may be convinced that God has a different plan for them. Ultimately, a couple’s motives for delaying childbearing, using contraception, or even having numerous children, are between them and God.  unquote

What does the Bible say about birth control / contraceptives? Should Christians use birth control? | GotQuestions.org

If the couple do not know God, through the Savior, then they are living on their own and what they do will be determined by purely secular humanist reasons not what is best between them and God.

 

 

 

Go find a Christian forum.

NOBODY CARES!

Edited August 21, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[NAME REMOVED]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's right, our population and growth cannot exceed the capacity of our ecosystems to support them.

Like everywhere else on the planet we've passed that point in North America too.

We need a Black Plague II.

COVID obviously failed to do the job. 

[herbie]

30 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

To have children or not have children boils down to one's relationship with God.

It has to do with f*cking and access to birth control. Welcome to the post Middle Ages.

[Michael Hardner]

34 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the immigrants are those suckers 

...since the 60s you mean.  

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

What boat power did you have, and what did you re-power with?

Dual outboards. Older 2 stroke Mercury 150 and 200hp outboard engines to 4 stroke 220/250's. Diesel boats have all been upgraded as well. The whole marine industry has cleaned up its act in addition to being decimated of course.

Water quality hereabouts has improved with less commercial economic activity and there's way more eelgrass growing around here now. So much I'm having to empty out my sea strainers a couple of times a day. I like to think it helped that I also spearheaded the effort to have two marine sewage pump out stations installed in local harbours.

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

...since the 60s you mean.  

the 1760's perhaps

nobody in Europe ever wanted to live in this bug infested frozen hellhole

it was only beaver hats and timber for naval masts that drove them here

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And you seem to have a comprehension problem.  I didn't say ecosystem.

That's right, I said ecosystems, we have a multitude of them and they're all quite fundamental to our capacity and infrastructure - which as you mentioned are also strained to the breaking point for the same reason, there's too many people.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the 1760's perhaps

nobody in Europe ever wanted to live in this bug infested frozen hellhole

it was only beaver hats and timber for naval masts that drove them here

It's Kingston Ontario.

We invented a way to have sex and not have kids.  So 'family planning' became real.  Hmmm.... no kids... ok... ramp up immigration... lots of good people out there...

If you think you have an improvement on growth capitalism, go ahead and submit it.  I really really hope you're not saying this is a simple problem though.  You're usually more humble than that.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

.  I really really hope you're not saying this is a simple problem though.  You're usually more humble than that.

please

I am not one who seeks to solve these problems at all

Utopian Progressivism is not my religion, I don't have that Messiah complex

I simply walk with the Nazarene, pilgrim on the road to Calvary Hill

don't try to save the world,

just save yourself, then another, one at a time

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

please

I am not one who seeks to solve these problems at all

Utopian Progressivism is not my religion, I don't have that Messiah complex

I simply walk with the Nazarene, pilgrim on the road to Calvary Hill

don't try to save the world,

just save yourself, then another, one at a time

Well, we can go back to the hunter-gatherer model... which had a low growth rate but due to high mortality...

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, we can go back to the hunter-gatherer model... which had a low growth rate but due to high mortality...

who is "we"

I am not the Messiah

thus I have no interest in trying to impose my will upon the world

that would be the essence of Satanic

life is a romantic adventure in of itself, and I am enjoying the ride

everything I ever wanted, everything I ever prayed for, I have received

the Nazarene parts the seas for me as I run to the banks to pray for miracles

this life is but a childhood, soul making machines therein, for the next world  to come

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That's right, I said ecosystems,

I know, I was the one who pointed it out to you    Paying attention has never been your thing has it. 

Quote

we have a multitude of them and they're all quite fundamental to our capacity and infrastructure

No, that's just you making shit up with words you think sound 'big and cool'. But it's just you trying to bullshit  your way into sounding relevant.  It's got absolutely nothing to do with our ability to sustain immigration at this time. 

Quote

- which as you mentioned are also strained to the breaking point for the same reason, there's too many people.

Nope.  Once again you can't read and can't comprehend simple concepts. I never said anything about there being too many people.  I'll go slowly. 

Its... not... the ... number...of....people.

It's the rate at which the number increases.  Relative to the rate of increase of the infrastructure necessary to provide for people.

As a country we have tonnes of room for more people. England has 438 people per sq km. The Us is 40. we have 4. 

But we can only grow so fast. It's that simple. It's not about ecosystems, it's not about size of population, its just about rate of growth. 

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

As a country we have tonnes of room for more people.

Sure we've got lots more room than England and the US but nowhere near the right type of ecosystems.

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But we can only grow so fast. It's that simple. It's not about ecosystems, it's not about size of population, its just about rate of growth. 

We'll it's not just about that at all but as you've said yourself it's presently unsustainable. And given how big we need to grow the economy so we can go back to growing the population...

And just in case you're imagining/hoping that climate change will magically convert our mostly uninhabitable ecosystems into one's that can sustain hundreds of millions of people, good luck with that too.

 

[CdnFox]

Just now, eyeball said:

Sure we've got lots more room than England and the US but nowhere near the right type of ecosystems.

 

Uh huh.  These ecosystems.... are they in the room with  you right now?

Quote

We'll it's not just about that at all but as you've said yourself it's presently unsustainable. And given how big we need to grow the economy so we can go back to growing the population...

Well it's pretty much all about that.  But while growing the economy is great simply reducing the level of immigration to make sure population rise is not higher than infrastructure increase will take care of things.  we probably have to go a little low for the first while to play catch up. 

Quote

And just in case you're imagining/hoping that climate change will magically convert our mostly uninhabitable ecosystems into one's that can sustain hundreds of millions of people, good luck with that too.

It can't!! I PAID my carbon tax!!!    

We have so much land that is habitable but not habited that it's not funny. Won't be a problem for well over 100 years. 

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

we probably have to go a little low for the first while to play catch up.

Catch up with what, the economy, infrastructure, housing?

Like I said, good luck with that.

Edited August 21, 2024 by eyeball

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

We have so much land that is habitable but not habited that it's not funny. Won't be a problem for well over 100 years. 

It's a problem right now and it'll take a hundred years to overcome even the most mundane hurdles.

'Frustrated, annoyed and angry': Neighbours clash as Coquitlam land assembly blocked by 1960s covenant

Density-restricting covenants attached to the land titles of more than 60 lots in a Coquitlam subdivision are pitting neighbours against one another. Some want the decades-old restrictions dissolved to allow for multi-unit developments, while others want to retain the neighbourhood’s single-family character.

As Postmedia has previously reported, the number of such covenants is not known, but some industry observers have suggested they could be in the thousands.

https://vancouversun.com/news/neighbours-clash-coquitlam-land-assembly-blocked-by-1960s-covenant

[I am Groot]

One minute with the Mogg, demonstrating how things in the UK are becoming so similar to Canada.

 

[August1991]

On 8/19/2024 at 12:54 PM, CdnFox said:

Well this aught to be good.....

They are some of the worst economies in the world given their perspective positions.  Newfoundland is the worst in an otherwise increadibly prosperous country

....

I was not referring to Alberta - rather Iceland.

Newfoundlanders and people on Iceland have survived for several centuries. In peace.

We don't have to get big to survive.

 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Catch up with what, the economy, infrastructure, housing?

 

mostly housing and other infrastructure such as medical services.  Thanks in part to terminating 2500 healthcare workers including docs nurses and techs during covid in bc alone nevermind elsewhere , we have a severe shortage and we can't hire or train fast enough to keep up with the current population growth.  There's education and electrical etc. 

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Like I said, good luck with that.

No luck involved.  That's like saying  'good luck with building a house',  you hire the right people and they do it.  It's not complex. 

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's a problem right now and it'll take a hundred years to overcome even the most mundane hurdles.

no, it won't.  Sure there's going to be issues along the way and local impediments but that's always the way it's been and we've still managed to build houses. 

It won't happen overnight, that's for certain.  But it'll happen and until we do catch up we'll have to be careful about letting our population grow too quickly.