Ideological Capture Destroying Capitalism and Opportunity in Canada

[Goddess]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you want to answer my other question?

No, thank you.

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Goddess said:

No, thank you.

No problem.  I was going to try to draw a line between populist suspicions of the WEF and traditional left rhetoric about the elites and ruling classes though.  This is why it's such a satisfying laugh for politicos when Poilievre (he of the party of business and especially trade deals) rails against said elites.

My believe is that Marx identified populists as well as Chuds but called them lumpen... One might say he lumpened them together...

[Nefarious Banana]

36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It really gets under your thin skin doesn't it - that says a lot more about you don't you think?

No, but it sure says a lot about you . . . .

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No problem.  I was going to try to draw a line between populist suspicions of the WEF and traditional left rhetoric about the elites and ruling classes though.  This is why it's such a satisfying laugh for politicos when Poilievre (he of the party of business and especially trade deals) rails against said elites.

Interesting.  I feel like there's been a shift in the last few years of what are "left" or "right" views.

Views that were pretty much mainstream "right" and accepted as valid by both sides (with differences in how to get there) are now viewed by the "left" as "far-right."

And the opposite, as well. 

I'm starting to feel the "left" is going too far left now, too.  There seems to be a major push from the left for more gov't, more bureaucracy, more gov't control over trivial details of life, and a push to "correct" other's thinking.  In fact, I've heard that exact phrase many times from gov't ministers in the last week, following the by-election loss - that they need to "correct" Canadian's thinking.  Freeland and Anand in particular - used that exact phrase recently.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

1.  I feel like there's been a shift in the last few years of what are "left" or "right" views.

2. Views that were pretty much mainstream "right" and accepted as valid by both sides (with differences in how to get there) are now viewed by the "left" as "far-right."

3. I'm starting to feel the "left" is going too far left now, too.  There seems to be a major push from the left for more gov't, more bureaucracy, more gov't control over trivial details of life, and a push to "correct" other's thinking. 

4. In fact, I've heard that exact phrase many times from gov't ministers in the last week, following the by-election loss - that they need to "correct" Canadian's thinking.  Freeland and Anand in particular - used that exact phrase recently.

1. Abso... ...lutely.  People talk about 'left' and primarily go to identity politics.  And although some think that this is insipid (I agree) and a conspiracy (I don't agree)... it is far more relevant to most people in their day to day lives.  And so left/right becomes about trans women getting balls shaved in a nail salon and not Gini Coefficients, WTO analysis of Chinese middle class consumerism etc.

Both topics are relevant

2. I have recently taken up on the comment that the European rightist parties are "far right" based on their lineage not their proposals.  As they come close to power they will have more mainstream suggestions, such as Brexit was.

3.  I agree, but nobody is proposing anything close to what it was like a mere 30-40 years ago.

4. I hear it from anti-immigration folks too... that Canada is wrong-headed.  Luckily we have open democracy and public forums to discuss and change minds...

[Goddess]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I hear it from anti-immigration folks too

This seems to be one of the main drivers of the switch to "far-right" parties in European countries.  And in Canada & the US right now, too.  

I hope you do understand that wanting LESS immigration or  more controlled immigration levels, is not being "anti-immigration."

There was no thought given to the effects of mass immigration - on a country's economy, societal influences, housing, healthcare system, etc.  Zero thought.

Mass immigration was clearly about political virtue-signaling.

The fact that it has was implemented and has now become a serious issue in so many countries, indicates to me that this was planned.  By some group.  And I don't believe it was complete and utter incompetence that zero thought was given to the downstream effects of it.

Make any society chaotic and it's easy to take control and impose restrictions on freedoms.

I do believe freedom is under attack right now.  And I'm astonished at how many people welcome the nanny-state and gov't intrusion into every minute detail of their life.  Historically, this has never worked out well for the citizenry.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

No, but it sure says a lot about you . . . .

Only that I'm not one of you people. That's a good thing right?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

No problem.  I was going to try to draw a line between populist suspicions of the WEF and traditional left rhetoric about the elites and ruling classes though.  This is why it's such a satisfying laugh for politicos when Poilievre (he of the party of business and especially trade deals) rails against said elites.

My believe is that Marx identified populists as well as Chuds but called them lumpen... One might say he lumpened them together...

You reveal your leftist bonifides or denial because you fail to call out the dangerous central planning overreach of the current elites who wear the mantle of progressivism. ESG and stakeholder capitalism are tearing at the fabric of capitalism and basic democratic principles like subsidiarity, free speech, and self-determination. Basically the partnership between corporations and government that used to be associated with right wing fascism has been turned upside down and wears progressive garb.  It’s simply impossible to be anti-growth and run a growth-driven corporation, and in fact trying to be both at once is extremely self-destructive.  Yes we have corporate ethics, but generally governments in the past understood that they could impose some reasonable regulations and laws on businesses.  Now we have the false and impossible game of corporations trying to look like something that they are not, because they’ve been pushed by our overreaching governments beyond what is reasonable.  It’s the lapse into state run enterprises, which is what we see in China.  To say that our corporations and governments are run by UN and WEF ideologues is far from conspiracy theory.  It’s the state of business in Canada today.  

Edited July 5, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[CrazyCanuck89]

33 minutes ago, Goddess said:

This seems to be one of the main drivers of the switch to "far-right" parties in European countries.  And in Canada & the US right now, too.  

I hope you do understand that wanting LESS immigration or  more controlled immigration levels, is not being "anti-immigration."

There was no thought given to the effects of mass immigration - on a country's economy, societal influences, housing, healthcare system, etc.  Zero thought.

Mass immigration was clearly about political virtue-signaling.

The fact that it has was implemented and has now become a serious issue in so many countries, indicates to me that this was planned.  By some group.  And I don't believe it was complete and utter incompetence that zero thought was given to the downstream effects of it.

Make any society chaotic and it's easy to take control and impose restrictions on freedoms.

I do believe freedom is under attack right now.  And I'm astonished at how many people welcome the nanny-state and gov't intrusion into every minute detail of their life.  Historically, this has never worked out well for the citizenry.

This message didn't age well.  UK just voted in the Labour Party.

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It's the lapse into state run enterprises, which is what we see in China.  To say that our corporations and governments are run by UN and WEF ideologues is far from conspiracy theory.  It’s the state of business in Canada today.

Maybe the problem is that we have human beings running everything.  Maybe AI will make a better job of it or maybe tardigrades. 

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, Goddess said:

1. I hope you do understand that wanting LESS immigration or  more controlled immigration levels, is not being "anti-immigration."

2. There was no thought given to the effects of mass immigration - on a country's economy, societal influences, housing, healthcare system, etc.  Zero thought.

3. Mass immigration was clearly about political virtue-signaling.

4. The fact that it has was implemented and has now become a serious issue in so many countries, indicates to me that this was planned.  By some group.  And I don't believe it was complete and utter incompetence that zero thought was given to the downstream effects of it.

5. Make any society chaotic and it's easy to take control and impose restrictions on freedoms.

6. I do believe freedom is under attack right now.  And I'm astonished at how many people welcome the nanny-state and gov't intrusion into every minute detail of their life.  Historically, this has never worked out well for the citizenry.

Sorry - I missed this reply.

1. Yes, of course.  And that plays back into the idea that the so-called "far right" are calling for reduced numbers (I assume) in some cases.  So how 'left' are they ?  And how 'right' is an NDP that no longer wants to nationalize industries ?

We're in convergence land and yet yelling Nazi and Marxist more than we did since those groups were actual factors in politics.

2.  I would say that we don't KNOW what the thinking was - and the fact that we don't is the worst failure of the governing class.

3.  There's no way to say that for sure.  Of course the term "mass" is subjective too.

4.  It was openly done by the governments at play, which I would say was for economic reasons.

5.  They don't need immigration to take away freedoms.  They did it in many different ways over the past 50 years, for reasons from pandemics to Quebec terrorism to war...

6.  I would be more worried about the economy.  It is now pretty much impossible to afford to live at minimum wage given average rents.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I've told you people many many times but you never pay attention - hard-boiled right-wing conservatives. 

Considering his definition of that, basically anyone right of castro. 

[Goddess]

52 minutes ago, eyeball said:

maybe tardigrades. 

I would prolly vote for the tardigrade, at this point.

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

My believe is that Marx identified populists as well as Chuds but called them lumpen... One might say he lumpened them together...

again, I would have to disagree

Marx & Engels are the populists

the conservatives are the monarchists

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

again, I would have to disagree

Marx & Engels are the populists

the conservatives are the monarchists

And good for them.  That's another reason I identify as conservative MUCH MORE than I identify as Marxist

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

And good for them.  That's another reason I identify as conservative MUCH MORE than I identify as Marxist

so long as you defend & uphold the Constitutional Monarchy in British North America

you are about as conservative as it gets, in this day & age

as the right is towards God Himself, as expressed by the monarch being sovereign

Regiment, Colours, Commander-in-Chief

Faithful Unto Judgment Day

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

1. so long as you defend & uphold the Constitutional Monarchy in British North America

2. you are about as conservative as it gets, in this day & age

3. as the right is towards God Himself, as expressed by the monarch being sovereign, Regiment, Colours, Commander-in-Chief, Faithful Unto Judgment Day

 

1. Until my dying breath, brother.  I just traced by ancestry and am a direct descendent of William the Conqueror it seems... thanks to a daughter of a Duke who married low  
2. I think so.
3. Even the pursuit of religion, whether Christian - CofE, Roman, Eastern, or Middle Eastern semitics Mohammedian or Babylonian Sects ... is subservient to upholding the crown.  

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Until my dying breath, brother.

Ducimus, brother

we will dig our graves behind the ramparts

[Goddess]