Canada Discriminates On The Basis of Race

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, User said:

So, to be clear, in Canada, a company can hire someone based on race, including that they only apply if they are a white person? I find that hard to believe. 

The second part of my question was, are you aware of any "hiring entity" that does hire someone only if they are a white male?

You claimed white men benefit from DEI. This was a thread about hiring practices. So... where are they benefiting like this?

Sorry... I think that it may be possible in a company based on if it's provincially/federally regulated (link) but it definitely is done in some public entities and I have known a few people to benefit (white males).  "Hire someone based on" means that the person has to be qualified but that race/gender is the tie breaker.

I don't know that they would ONLY hire a white male, but if one applied they would be picked.

White males benefit in roles where they suffer hiring discrimination, presumably, ie. roles where they are under represented.

[User]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry... I think that it may be possible in a company based on if it's provincially/federally regulated (link) but it definitely is done in some public entities and I have known a few people to benefit (white males).  "Hire someone based on" means that the person has to be qualified but that race/gender is the tie breaker.

I don't know that they would ONLY hire a white male, but if one applied they would be picked.

White males benefit in roles where they suffer hiring discrimination, presumably, ie. roles where they are under represented.

Where do you get that any of that applies to white men?

I am no expert on Canadian law here, but the link you provided:

"The task force recommended that Black and 2SLGBT+ employees be added to the list of designated groups targeted for EDI policy by the Act. The list currently names women, aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities."

These laws are targeting minority groups, not white men. 

You said white men benefit from DEI, in a thread about hiring practices. 

Can you point to any examples for where any hiring entity has benefited white men by stipulating that they would only consider hiring them for a position? If not, what exactly did you mean by benefit white men and what examples do you have?

 

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re a very stupid person.  Do you think I made up a single assertion?  Get real.  Do your own research and move to the side.  

I don't think you did.  I know you did.  I clicked your link and read it.  It didn't even remotely say what you claim it did. 

I "did my own research", and it made you look like a clown who reposts links he hasn't even read.  🙃

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, User said:

1. Where do you get that any of that applies to white men?

2. I am no expert on Canadian law here, but the link you provided:

"The task force recommended that Black and 2SLGBT+ employees be added to the list of designated groups targeted for EDI policy by the Act. The list currently names women, aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities."

These laws are targeting minority groups, not white men. 

3. You said white men benefit from DEI, in a thread about hiring practices. 

4. Can you point to any examples for where any hiring entity has benefited white men by stipulating that they would only consider hiring them for a position?

5. If not, what exactly did you mean by benefit white men and what examples do you have?

 

1. White men are discriminated against in hiring in some roles.
2. I think that's the broad application but white men are also part of it.
3. Yes.
4. To be clear - they don't do that for ANY position.  You have to be qualified.  I myself have misstepped on this thread, so no worries but we should clarify.
5. I think nursing is one, but that one is anecdotal.  Teaching is another and I know a few who benefited from that one.

[User]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. White men are discriminated against in hiring in some roles.
2. I think that's the broad application but white men are also part of it.
3. Yes.
4. To be clear - they don't do that for ANY position.  You have to be qualified.  I myself have misstepped on this thread, so no worries but we should clarify.
5. I think nursing is one, but that one is anecdotal.  Teaching is another and I know a few who benefited from that one.

1. Yes, obviously so... this thread is an example of it happening. You claimed white men BENEFIT from DEI, how so?

2. Where are White men a part of it?

"The list currently names women, aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities."

4. So... you are now saying that white men do not benefit from being hired because they are white men... 

5. This is not an example, its just another vague assertion. 

At this point, I have given you repeated opportunities to explain yourself and you have not done so. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but it is clear you are just obfuscating because you can offer nothing to back up your assertion or explain yourself when you claimed white men benefit from DEI. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, User said:

1. Yes, obviously so... this thread is an example of it happening. You claimed white men BENEFIT from DEI, how so?

2. Where are White men a part of it?

"The list currently names women, aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities."

3. So... you are now saying that white men do not benefit from being hired because they are white men... 

4. This is not an example, its just another vague assertion. 

 

 

1. Same as others... qualified but under represented ?  Front of the line for you.
2. Yes, but I suspect it's a general statement.  I think that major law firms are calling for private companies to record diversity stats, which would presumably include white males.  I would say it's an omission of liberalism there.
3.  No, they are hired because they are qualified and a target race/gender.
4.  I'll firm it up for you: if you are a while male and want to be a preschool, elementary teacher for example you are given preference over a woman of any race.

So, yes, white men do benefit.  There aren't so many roles where they are under represented but there are some.  I think it's important because we want to ensure that we give the benefit of the doubt that these programs are based on a principle.  If you succumb to the temptation of saying it's just a them-vs-us thing then you are actually buying in to postmodern critiques of power and opening up the door for "them" to say... "fine then, out with you".

At 36% of the Canadian population, it's pretty easy for people to team up against you (us)... wait - are you white ?   male ?  Not that it matters...

[User]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'll firm it up for you: if you are a while male and want to be a preschool, elementary teacher for example you are given preference over a woman of any race.

You have not firmed up anything, this is another vague assertion. 

Give me one school in Canada where they give white males preference over a woman of any race as a matter of policy. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

At 36% of the Canadian population, it's pretty easy for people to team up against you (us)... wait - are you white ?   male ?  Not that it matters...

Well there it is. Sorry @User  but if you don't agree with the clear lie  that white men benefit from being excluded from applying for jobs then it must be because you're a white bigot. 

Shocking. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, User said:

You have not firmed up anything, this is another vague assertion. 

Give me one school in Canada where they give white males preference over a woman of any race as a matter of policy. 

I was hoping you would just take my word that it happened ?  Based on experiences of close friends.  But here's an article that touches on it.  I don't have time to look in detail but I think it does touch on it:

 “The first round of TDSB interviews will be granted to teachers candidates that meet one or more of the following criteria in addition to being an outstanding teacher: Male, racial minority, French, Music, Aboriginal.”

https://macleans.ca/education/college/school-boards-plan-to-favour-males-minorities-isnt-right

 

 

Edited May 13, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, User said:

Yet again:

"Therefore, only applicants who self-identify as members of gender equity deserving groups (including cisgender women, transgender women, transgender men, two-spirit, and non-binary) and/or as racialized individuals will be considered for this opportunity. We encourage those with intersecting identities to apply (for example, women who identify as racialized individuals, Indigenous, and/or persons with disabilities)."

So a white person with a penis, who self-identifies as non-binary, could still meet the criteria, as could a white female, or a white transgender man, correct?

There's certainly a lot to dissect in a job posting like this, and (IMO) much to criticize, but what can we conclude from it?

Does this show that Canada is a "disgusting racist country", or have the various (mostly) well-meaning institutions got their priorities so absurdly mixed-up that they're becoming dysfunctional. 

It looks to me like the University of New Brunswick is trying so hard to be progressive that they've bent their spines past breaking and made a mockery of themselves and what they're trying to achieve.

That's a very different discussion than "racist against white men", isn't it?  😑

Edited May 13, 2024 by Moonbox

[User]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I was hoping you would just take my word that it happened ?  Based on experiences of close friends.  But here's an article that touches on it.  I don't have time to look in detail but I think it does touch on it:

 “The first round of TDSB interviews will be granted to teachers candidates that meet one or more of the following criteria in addition to being an outstanding teacher: Male, racial minority, French, Music, Aboriginal.”

https://macleans.ca/education/college/school-boards-plan-to-favour-males-minorities-isnt-right

 

 

That clearly says "racial minority"

 

[User]

15 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

So a white person with a penis, who self-identifies as non-binary, could still meet the criteria, as could a white female, or a white transgender man, correct?

There's certainly a lot to dissect in a job posting like this, and (IMO) much to criticize, but what can we conclude from it?

Does this show that Canada is a "disgusting racist country", or have the various (mostly) well-meaning institutions got their priorities so absurdly mixed-up that they're becoming dysfunctional. 

It looks to me like the University of New Brunswick is trying so hard to be progressive that they've bent their spines past breaking and made a mockery of themselves and what they're trying to achieve.

That's a very different discussion than "racist against white men", isn't it?  😑

Yes, you found the technical loophole that I addressed in my response to you that he should have clarified with STRAIGHT white males. 

🙄

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, User said:

That clearly says "racial minority"

 

"One or more"  so a white man gets priority over a white woman, first of all.  Secondly, by divulging the criteria they reveal that they are using metrics... which would mean that a white male would win over a black female if the numbers supported that (and they do)

The thing that the tribalists on here fail to realize is that if they make this about "the best one wins"... when the majority female liberal cadre imposes its will, you will mysteriously NOT be 'the best one'.  If you stick to principles, you have a row to hoe.  Otherwise, you are simply trying to assert that the system, as it is, works.  And once you are in the minority you'll be hard done by, IMO.

[User]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"One or more"  so a white man gets priority over a white woman, first of all.  Secondly, by divulging the criteria they reveal that they are using metrics... which would mean that a white male would win over a black female if the numbers supported that (and they do)

The thing that the tribalists on here fail to realize is that if they make this about "the best one wins"... when the majority female liberal cadre imposes its will, you will mysteriously NOT be 'the best one'.  If you stick to principles, you have a row to hoe.  Otherwise, you are simply trying to assert that the system, as it is, works.  And once you are in the minority you'll be hard done by, IMO.

No, just a man. 

[PIK]

If a Canadian company advertise white only hiring, what do you think would happen. The paid protesters/actors would be tearing off their pro Palestine shirts and moving to the front yrd of that company. Lol

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, PIK said:

If a Canadian company advertise white only hiring, what do you think would happen. The paid protesters/actors would be tearing off their pro Palestine shirts and moving to the front yrd of that company. Lol

They wouldn't get the chance. The human rights boards would have torn them to shreds long before the usual protesters could say "it's all white-1948's fault!'

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I don't think you did.  I know you did.  I clicked your link and read it.  It didn't even remotely say what you claim it did. 

I "did my own research", and it made you look like a clown who reposts links he hasn't even read.  🙃

All I provided was part of an article.  There were no links.  Inane.

[Moonbox]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

All I provided was part of an article.  There were no links.  Inane.

Evidently there were, because I clicked on it, read it, and cited it.  🤡

20 hours ago, User said:

Yes, you found the technical loophole that I addressed in my response to you that he should have clarified with STRAIGHT white males. 

🙄

It's a matter of tone and repetition for angry babies like him.  Would you have read that article and come here, like him to rant about how disgusting and racist Canada is, or do you think maybe you would have offered a bit more nuance and thoughtfulness?  

For the record, I'm firmly opposed to affirmative action as it's been implemented, and think it's only got worse over time.  

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Evidently there were, because I clicked on it, read it, and cited it.  🤡

It's a matter of tone and repetition for angry babies like him.  Would you have read that article and come here, like him to rant about how disgusting and racist Canada is, or do you think maybe you would have offered a bit more nuance and thoughtfulness?  

For the record, I'm firmly opposed to affirmative action as it's been implemented, and think it's only got worse over time.  

I inserted nothing.  If there were links, I didn’t know about them.

End DEI.  It’s racist garbage.

[cannuck]

Using Federal agencies for social engineering started when the Big Turd was in power.  Little Turd has taken it to an all time high, but so-called "conservative" governments did little to reverse this trend.  Further, many large companies have HR departments that do exactly the same thing.  Hiring is often no longer by merit alone, but "qualified" usually means meeting some ridiculous minimal qualification but meeting some totally irrelevant minority preference trumps merit almost every time.

I have watched this in one of my closest friend's career.  He is a P Eng nearing the end of his career (so highly qualified and experienced) and landed a job with one of the most sought after employers in Canada.  He got dumped into a department with....uh....a distinctly Asian racial profile (i.e. the one where most Cdn immigrants originate).  He reported to one manager and had a half dozen co-workers.  Once my buddy landed there, other department heads soon found out they had someone who could actually DO the engineering and on top of that deliver a project.  He was kept insanely busy, but then he was required to write endless reports to his manager while the rest of the entire department did little more than hold meetings all day and write pointless reports about the meetings.  He finally had his fill of literally doing EVERYONE else in the department's work and simply refused to write any more reports to his boss.  HR sided with the useless tit and fired him - over protest of several other department heads.   Worked out fine in the end because some Yanks picked him up at damn near double his previous best salary.   Something about information from other department heads at his last job seems to have had a lot to do with it.

I have heard many similar stories from others in the Engineering profession.   Countries with a culture based upon privilege and corruption simply do not fit nor IMHO do they in any way belong inside of our borders.  As some Humboldt SK families why.

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, cannuck said:

Using Federal agencies for social engineering started when the Big Turd was in power.  Little Turd has taken it to an all time high, but so-called "conservative" governments did little to reverse this trend.  Further, many large companies have HR departments that do exactly the same thing.  Hiring is often no longer by merit alone, but "qualified" usually means meeting some ridiculous minimal qualification but meeting some totally irrelevant minority preference trumps merit almost every time.

I have watched this in one of my closest friend's career.  He is a P Eng nearing the end of his career (so highly qualified and experienced) and landed a job with one of the most sought after employers in Canada.  He got dumped into a department with....uh....a distinctly Asian racial profile (i.e. the one where most Cdn immigrants originate).  He reported to one manager and had a half dozen co-workers.  Once my buddy landed there, other department heads soon found out they had someone who could actually DO the engineering and on top of that deliver a project.  He was kept insanely busy, but then he was required to write endless reports to his manager while the rest of the entire department did little more than hold meetings all day and write pointless reports about the meetings.  He finally had his fill of literally doing EVERYONE else in the department's work and simply refused to write any more reports to his boss.  HR sided with the useless tit and fired him - over protest of several other department heads.   Worked out fine in the end because some Yanks picked him up at damn near double his previous best salary.   Something about information from other department heads at his last job seems to have had a lot to do with it.

I have heard many similar stories from others in the Engineering profession.   Countries with a culture based upon privilege and corruption simply do not fit nor IMHO do they in any way belong inside of our borders.  As some Humboldt SK families why.

The problem may be too big in Canada to fix.  Canada is no longer a meritocracy and will soon take its place among other corrupt regimes where knowledge, talent, skills, education and experience don’t count as much as forms of favouritism.  The US Supreme Court saw this coming and ended DEI discrimination in hiring and admissions. Canada has doubled down on the stupidity and is paying the price in growth, productivity, unemployment, and average wages — of course!

Edited May 15, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

You got anecdotes?  Post 'em ! 😅

 

I'll keep mine to myself.  

[herbie]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Canada is no longer a meritocracy

Since when was the civil service based on merit? The object is to follow the rulebook no matter how wrong it is, pass on all decisions and leave common sense at home.

The job at the mill has no quotas and doesn't give a damn what colour you are or if you've got a dong,

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, herbie said:

Since when was the civil service based on merit? The object is to follow the rulebook no matter how wrong it is, pass on all decisions and leave common sense at home.

The job at the mill has no quotas and doesn't give a damn what colour you are or if you've got a dong,

Canada won’t have top researchers or strong universities because of these stupid hiring practices.

Of course black, indigenous lesbians know more about science than anyone and should run our universities.  They’re just born with the “ways of knowing”, so why not just give them all the highest paying jobs with the most responsibilities?  Why waste time with qualifications and interviews?

Edited May 15, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 

Of course black, indigenous lesbians know more about science than anyone and should run our universities.  They’re just born with the “ways of knowing”, so why not just give them all the highest paying jobs with the most responsibilities?  Why waste time with qualifications and interviews?

Well these are the same people who claim that math is racist so......