Jordan Peterson: Our rotten, rotting universities

[blackbird]

"Elite' institutions are whale carcasses filled with parasites

Harvard is a whale carcass, inhabited by parasites. It is a $50 billion dollar endowment, with a university somewhat carelessly and secondarily attached to it. In its prime it was, as well, a storehouse of genuine brand value, an institution built very carefully by the diligent work of those who laboured upward and properly in the past. It became in consequence of that extreme care a place of brilliant lecturers, creative and honest scientists, and highly qualified, ambitious and disciplined students. When I worked there in the 1990s, Harvard was still that justly esteemed place, although the rabble had already broken through the gate. It thereby constituted a brand of exceeding reputational value (exactly the value granted to those who graduated with a Harvard degree) as well as the aforementioned economic giant.

Like its sister institutions, MIT, UPenn, Yale, Princeton and Stanford, Harvard was a treasured place — but simultaneously something ripe, in consequence, for the plunder. The same might be said in a somewhat lesser and typically understated and tentative Canadian manner of McGill or the University of Toronto or the dozen or so of our major centres of once-international-quality advanced education. The parasites — flying, without exception, the flags of the radical left — began to make their appearance and plot their takeover during the turn on tune in drop out hippie 1960s (a mantra developed at the very Department of Psychology I later served in at Harvard itself). All the virtues that made these places what they most truly were — all the disciplined striving, the upward aiming, the long apprenticeship, the concern for the truth, the high and discerning intelligence — were disdainfully dismissed by the parasitical invaders as nothing but the expression of arbitrary power and the manifestation of patriarchal and racist oppression. This was of course nothing but moral justification for their acts of theft: “If you obtained everything you have in consequence of your theft and misuse of power, it is only natural justice that I turn the tables and steal from you.” Of course, the self-interest in such a claim cannot be pointed out — not without the vengeance of the mad mob descended, as it continually has.

Those who levied such accusations and whose victimized proclaiming was so cowardly accepted, abetted and even admired (“they’re so brave”) by the targets of their shaming had the doors to the warehouse guiltily flung open to them. They came flooding in, consequentially, multiplying the number of sham disciplines and positions, demolishing one by one everyone who opposed their ideological and self-absorbed acting or indicated its essentially narcissistic and shallow nature. This was the invasion of academia by the poseurs and charlatans of the permissive, infantilizing, accusatory mob; the radical feminists, the grievance studies “scholars,” the post-modernists allied so corruptly and unforgivably with the philosophical Marxists, the do-gooding activists, the rainbow-banner bearing hedonists of pride, even the outright communists — the whole bloody mess of those claiming no other motivation but compassion and care for the marginalized but actually doing nothing other than raping and pillaging the brand."

 

Jordan Peterson: Our rotten, rotting universities | National Post

 

This article helps understand the situation of the radical left, cancel culture, and woke in universities.  Sadly many of the younger generation is under their influence through these institutions.

[Michael Hardner]

It's illegal to post anything by him - he has been cancelled.

 

Please remove.

[Black Dog]

Not beating the drug-induced brainrot allegations by including an 850 word digression about ancient Mesopotamian cosmology in an article ostensibly about higher education.

Anyway, the idea that elite colleges and universities are churning out student radicals who emerge to destroy the system and aren't simply factories for reproducing institutional power is completely at odds with the entire history of these places.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's illegal to post anything by him - he has been cancelled.

 

Please remove.

Cancelled by who?  You?

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Not beating the drug-induced brainrot allegations by including an 850 word digression about ancient Mesopotamian cosmology in an article ostensibly about higher education.

Anyway, the idea that elite colleges and universities are churning out student radicals who emerge to destroy the system and aren't simply factories for reproducing institutional power is completely at odds with the entire history of these places.

That's nonsense.  Nobody comes out of university as a conservative, at least not since the 1980's Milton Friedman days.  They now come out talking about microaggressions, white fragility, patriarchy, and decolonization because that's the theory being taught in the classrooms and texts.

I don't have any issues with anyone talking about those theories, but clearly leftwing theories like those dominate the social sciences/humanities while others are ignored or not talked about nearly as much.  This represents the biases of the professors and students (who then become TA's and professors).  The profs are the ones choosing 100% of the classroom reading materials.  There's no "approved curriculum" like in high school.

It's simply a fact that in certain fields in post-secondary you're almost certainly going to be propagandized to an extent based on the beliefs/biases of the profs.  You can't rail against FOX News propaganda and then deny this fact.

[Black Dog]

47 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That's nonsense.  Nobody comes out of university as a conservative, at least not since the 1980's Milton Friedman days.  They now come out talking about microaggressions, white fragility, patriarchy, and decolonization because that's the theory being taught in the classrooms and texts.

lol more than 60% of Harvard grads end up in conservative-leaning fields like finance, consulting, tech, engineering and law. More than half make six figures right out of the gate. Hardly the marks of a institution producing cadres of hardcore social justice warriors.

Quote

I don't have any issues with anyone talking about those theories, but clearly leftwing theories like those dominate the social sciences/humanities while others are ignored or not talked about nearly as much.  This represents the biases of the professors and students (who then become TA's and professors).  The profs are the ones choosing 100% of the classroom reading materials.  There's no "approved curriculum" like in high school. 

It's simply a fact that in certain fields in post-secondary you're almost certainly going to be propagandized to an extent based on the beliefs/biases of the profs.  You can't rail against FOX News propaganda and then deny this fact.

Social sciences and the humanities represents less than 30% of Harvard grads and that's if you stretch it to include Health and Academia. Those "certain fields" where students of elite educational institutions are being exposed to left wing concepts represent a minority of programs and produce comparatively few grads, but you wouldn't know it from the amount of time right wingers spend crying about them.
 

Edited April 3, 2024 by Black Dog

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Black Dog said:

lol more than 60% of Harvard grads end up in conservative-leaning fields like finance, consulting, tech, engineering and law. More than half make six figures right out of the gate. Hardly the marks of a institution producing cadres of hardcore social justice warriors.

Social sciences and the humanities represents less than 30% of Harvard grads and that's if you stretch it to include Health and Academia. Those "certain fields" where students of elite educational institutions are being exposed to left wing concepts represent a minority of programs and produce comparatively few grads, but you wouldn't know it from the amount of time right wingers spend crying about them.

44% of Harvard students major in fields of social science and the humanities.  Another 30% take science and math.  That there's no job title called "social justice warrior" after university doesn't mean someone isn't one.  But nice try with this load of nonsense.

Would love to hear about the conservative-leaning electrical engineering theory being taught at Harvard, or the patriarchy involved in C++ textbooks.  A certain field being a stereotypical sausage-fest simply based on the differing interests between genders doesn't make the material taught in the classroom "conservative".

[Zeitgeist]

The rot in universities is so deep now that higher education has lost a lot of credibility over the past few years.  Once bastions of free speech and innovation, students must proclaim their allegiance to the anti-colonial, anti-patriarchal rainbow and climate zealots.

It’s not that universities didn’t have Marxists, feminists, gender studies and pseudosciences before, it’s their elevation to the level of unquestioned dogma and so-called reality that’s frightening.  Questioning it risks reputation or actual career loss.

What got us here?  The guy who sat on George Floyd?   Constant messaging in liberal media and facile devouring mothers like those on dumb shows like The View?   No, the radical activists have infiltrated our governments and HR departments.

When people are labeled white supremacists or privileged simply because they are white and haven’t bent the knee or declared themselves “allies” of the radicals, when people are forced to use language they don’t agree with based on pseudoscience (non-biological gender pronouns), and what used to be understood as killing (based on science) is normalized or downplayed in radical ways (unlimited abortion and euthanasia), and when students aren’t even allowed to question these creepy new dubious orthodoxies in case they’re triggered or offended, you have the ingredients of cultural collapse. Universities are leading the revolution.

That’s why I’ve encouraged my kids to enter fields that the stupid people haven’t been able to monopolize like engineering.  Unscientific stupidity and flakiness are quickly exposed in such disciplines.  

Edited April 4, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

The rot in universities is so deep now that higher education has lost a lot of credibility over the past few years.  Once bastions of free speech and innovation, students must proclaim their allegiance to the anti-colonial, anti-patriarchal rainbow and climate zealots.

It’s not that universities didn’t have Marxists, feminists, gender studies and pseudosciences before, it’s their elevation to the level of unquestioned dogma and so-called reality that’s frightening.  Questioning it risks reputation or actual career loss.

What got us here?  The guy who sat on George Floyd?   Constant messaging in liberal media and facile devouring mothers like those on dumb shows like The View?   No, the radical activists have infiltrated our governments and HR departments.

When people are labeled white supremacists or privileged simply because they are white and haven’t bent the knee or declared themselves “allies” of the radicals, when people are forced to use language they don’t agree with based on pseudoscience (non-biological gender pronouns), and what used to be understood as killing (based on science) is normalized or downplayed in radical ways (unlimited abortion and euthanasia), and when students aren’t even allowed to question these creepy new dubious orthodoxies in case they’re triggered or offended, you have the ingredients of cultural collapse. Universities are leading the revolution.

That’s why I’ve encouraged my kids to enter fields that the stupid people haven’t been able to monopolize like engineering.  Unscientific stupidity and flakiness are quickly exposed in such disciplines.  

You know, older folks have been moaning about the values of the younger folks since forever.

Beyond the gnashing of the teeth and plaintiff wailing, is there any substantive evidence that social progressivity is some kind of threat?

I acknowledge that appalling breaches happen, that principles are sometimes trounced to satisfy political concerns... but there's lots of attention given to these cases.

Yet another long post with no links... It does get boring. 🌲

Edited April 4, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[Nationalist]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You know, older folks have been moaning about the values of the younger folks since forever.

Beyond the gnashing of the teeth and plaintiff wailing, is there any substantive evidence that social progressivity is some kind of threat?

I acknowledge that appalling breaches happen, that principles are sometimes trounced to satisfy political concerns... but there's lots of attention given to these cases.

Yet another long post with no links... It does get boring. 🌲

It is a threat.

 

Mike, you can pretend all you like but, that progressives are not a threat

Is a lie.

 

[Michael Hardner]

45 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

It is a threat.

 

Mike, you can pretend all you like but, that progressives are not a threat

Is a lie.

 

Can you give me something that puts this on context?  I heard people moaning about the Convoy too... Could I show you a video and expect to to accept that?

No.

[Nationalist]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can you give me something that puts this on context?  I heard people moaning about the Convoy too... Could I show you a video and expect to to accept that?

No.

Can you show me a video of the convoy folks burning buildings and rioting?

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Can you show me a video of the convoy folks burning buildings and rioting?

No but I can show videos of them acting like idi0ts

This is why videos aren't evidence of anything beyond the incident pictured.

[Michael Hardner]

Propaganda uses images as a proxy for reasonable argument.  Don't fall for it and call people out if they do it.

[Michael Hardner]

Btw @Nationalist I just searched and found four pages of you referencing the MSM negatively. And you're using them as a source? Quite curious.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Propaganda uses images as a proxy for reasonable argument.  Don't fall for it and call people out if they do it.

Ok Mike...call me out.

And I'll call you out.

The reason you have to deny your own senses is that you have stumbled into a debate you cannot win. The evidence is irrefutable. Thus you must warp reality to try to make a point. A point that is, in essence, a lie.

Lol...so you call on folks.. 

"DONT LOOK ETHEL!"

 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Nationalist said:

1. Ok Mike...call me out. And I'll call you out.

2. The reason you have to deny your own senses is that you have stumbled into a debate you cannot win.

3. The evidence is irrefutable.

Thus you must warp reality to try to make a point. A point that is, in essence, a lie.

4. Lol...so you call on folks.. 

"DONT LOOK ETHEL!"

 

1. I apologize or respond with Mea Culpa when my own methods fail, so please do.

2. I don't see it as a debate. I'm asking you to educate me on the scale of those the fires and unrest in those videos.  I haven't said you were wrong yet.

3. Good to hear. Please post it then. What is the impact of the riots that you have videos on. Wait... Didn't they stop or are people still rioting over this stuff?

4. I am old enough to get the reference... Ray Stevens recorded "The streak" about 1975 if I remember correctly.

[Black Dog]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

44% of Harvard students major in fields of social science and the humanities.  Another 30% take science and math.  That there's no job title called "social justice warrior" after university doesn't mean someone isn't one.  But nice try with this load of nonsense.

I'm talking about grads, you're talking about majors, which can and do change. I'm not even sure your numbers are accurate tbh.

Quote

Would love to hear about the conservative-leaning electrical engineering theory being taught at Harvard, or the patriarchy involved in C++ textbooks.  A certain field being a stereotypical sausage-fest simply based on the differing interests between genders doesn't make the material taught in the classroom "conservative".

It goes to show how stupid and child-minded you are that you think something can't have a political slant if there's not explicit propagandizing involved.

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s why I’ve encouraged my kids to enter fields that the stupid people haven’t been able to monopolize like engineering.  Unscientific stupidity and flakiness are quickly exposed in such disciplines.  

You've never met an engineer, huh?

Edited April 4, 2024 by Black Dog

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You know, older folks have been moaning about the values of the younger folks since forever.

Beyond the gnashing of the teeth and plaintiff wailing, is there any substantive evidence that social progressivity is some kind of threat?

I acknowledge that appalling breaches happen, that principles are sometimes trounced to satisfy political concerns... but there's lots of attention given to these cases.

Yet another long post with no links... It does get boring. 🌲

I already know your response, so maybe don’t bother?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

I'm talking about grads, you're talking about majors, which can and do change. I'm not even sure your numbers are accurate tbh.

It goes to show how stupid and child-minded you are that you think something can't have a political slant if there's not explicit propagandizing involved.

You've never met an engineer, huh?

The fact that engineers are kryptonite to you is very reassuring.

You can stick with the gender studies and decentering colonialism programs.  We’ll be somewhere far far away.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I already know your response, so maybe don’t bother?

You first.

Why don't you just complain about the weather? I would read that.

[impartialobserver]

I think that some are so far removed from actually being a university student that they think that the majority of students are majoring in sociology, gender studies, or social work. My alma mater, Boise State's, most common major is accounting. Next up is education followed by nursing and Business Administration. 

[Black Dog]

32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The fact that engineers are kryptonite to you is very reassuring.

You can stick with the gender studies and decentering colonialism programs.  We’ll be somewhere far far away.

If you're an engineer, you've just proven my point.

[Zeitgeist]

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You first.

Why don't you just complain about the weather? I would read that.

Next time I’ll give you a trigger warning before I post, so you can find a safe space.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

I'm talking about grads, you're talking about majors, which can and do change. I'm not even sure your numbers are accurate tbh.

It goes to show how stupid and child-minded you are that you think something can't have a political slant if there's not explicit propagandizing involved.

Actually I have no idea that your numbers are correct.  Mine come directly from Harvard themselves:

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

Feel free to throw around childish insults, it's just cover for the fact that you still haven't provided ANY evidence that the fields you listed have a rightwing political slant being taught in the classroom over the last decade or so.  "They must have a political slant because because engineers are frat boys" isn't evidence.  Unless you're one of those "math is racist" loons.

In fact, if the most popular fields in academia were pushing a bunch of Trumpster chud nonsense that every student came out parroting and implementing in most corporate, NGO, and government workplaces you'd be freaking out and Hardner would be slamming it, as you should, and so would I.