One way China controls its population

[blackbird]

China reportedly has 700 million closed circuit TV cameras monitoring its population by the Communist Party.  These cameras are capable of recognizing faces and even gait if they cannot see the face.

This is the most extensive monitoring system imaginable.   AI of course is indispensable for this system.  The ironic thing is, he says, much of this technology was obtained from the west.

This system is integrated with the Communist Party social credit system which awards points for obedience to the dictates of the Communist Party.  He says if you have insufficient points, the party may exercise control over everything electronic you use, including purchasing, bank accounts, etc.

Jordan Peterson made a presentation to Congress where he describes this system in significant detail.

Strangely there are actually users on here who believe that China is not a Communist system but has embraced Capitalism.  This monitoring and control system of the population proves otherwise.

I cannot verify the accuracy of this information.

 

 

Edited March 11 by blackbird

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

China reportedly has 700 million closed circuit TV cameras monitoring its population by the Communist Party.

God reportedly monitors what we do all the time, especially with ourselves.

If I shake it more than three times am I playing with fire?

Edited March 11 by eyeball

[blackbird]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

God reportedly monitors what we do all the time, especially with ourselves.

If I shake it more than three times am I playing with fire?

Did you miss your bottle this morning?

[blackbird]

Eyeball, is this you?

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Eyeball, is this you?

Yeah, I'm just as upset with being monitored as you are no matter who is doing it.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yeah, I'm just as upset with being monitored as you are no matter who is doing it.

Monitoring isn't Communism.

China is/was a hybrid model with heavy government involvement.

Jordan Peterson is a former therapist who is popular because of an audience thirsty for old timey moral lecturing and oblivious to his poor scholarship.

He opines on many things he's not trained in.

[Michael Hardner]

 

 

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Monitoring isn't Communism.

China is/was a hybrid model with heavy government involvement.

It seems to me all governments act a little like God once they get a little to full of themselves.

That said, I bet Christianity would be as aghast at the idea that God should be held to account - as any government lickspittle would - whether they're communist, capitalist or any other ist you care to mention.

[herbie]

Watches US network crime shows and believes CIA spy satellites can see up his nose but is more worried about what China does....

How many cams does the UK have to monitor its population?

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Monitoring isn't Communism.

China is/was a hybrid model with heavy government involvement.

Jordan Peterson is a former therapist who is popular because of an audience thirsty for old timey moral lecturing and oblivious to his poor scholarship.

He opines on many things he's not trained in.

Totalitarian governments wish to monitor the population as much as possible to maintain control and power.  1984 says Big Brother is watching.

China has the most CCTVs in the world, a fact.  Cameras don't lie, but can only be used for justice in a fair justice system which China doesn't have.

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Jordan Peterson is a former therapist who is popular because of an audience thirsty for old timey moral lecturing and oblivious to his poor scholarship.

I love that Jordan Peterson, of all people, was considered by anyone, anywhere, as an expert on China, surveillance and security.  Congress may as well have invited Kanye to tell them about the Ashkenazi. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Totalitarian governments wish to monitor the population as much as possible to maintain control and power.  1984 says Big Brother is watching.

China has the most CCTVs in the world, a fact.  Cameras don't lie, but can only be used for justice in a fair justice system which China doesn't have.

Yes.

[Michael Hardner]

41 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So instead of that, how about totalitarian populations that monitor their governments as much as possible, for the same reason?  It would sure take one hell of a lot less cameras. 

Yes, having God keep an eye on them instead would make things a lot easier but how's that ever worked out?

I didn't say what you quoted me as saying.

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I didn't say what you quoted me as saying.

My mistake I see that now but it looks like MG does too so...

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Totalitarian governments wish to monitor the population as much as possible to maintain control and power.  1984 says Big Brother is watching.

So instead of that, how about totalitarian populations that monitor their governments as much as possible, for the same reason?  It would sure take one hell of a lot less cameras. 

Yes, having God keep an eye on them instead would make things a lot easier but how's that ever worked out?

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Monitoring isn't Communism.

Sure it is.  It is extreme control of the population and a denial of individual freedom.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Jordan Peterson is a former therapist who is popular because of an audience thirsty for old timey moral lecturing and oblivious to his poor scholarship.

Well, he sure is popular because apparently millions of people follow him.   He must be doing something right.  He has struck a nerve.

 

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

He opines on many things he's not trained in.

Nobody needs to be "trained" to speak about liberalism or progressivism and expose it.  He has a natural talent.

[Aristides]

Communism is when the state owns everything and everyone works for the state. China has property rights and people are free to make profits and become privately wealthy. China is totalitarian and a single party state but not Communist.

Edited March 12 by Aristides

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, Aristides said:

Communism is when the state owns everything and everyone works for the state. China has property rights and people are free to make profits and become privately wealthy. China is totalitarian and a single party state but not Communist.

Practically the whole world considers China as a Communist state.

"The Chinese Communist Party (CCP),[3] officially the Communist Party of China (CPC),[4] is the founding and sole ruling party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). Under the leadership of Mao Zedong, the CCP emerged victorious in the Chinese Civil War against the Kuomintang. In 1949, Mao proclaimed the establishment of the People's Republic of China. Since then, the CCP has governed China and has had sole control over the People's Liberation Army (PLA). Successive leaders of the CCP have added their own theories to the party's constitution, which outlines the party's ideology, collectively referred to as socialism with Chinese characteristics. As of 2023, the CCP has more than 98 million members, making it the second largest political party by membership in the world after India's Bharatiya Janata Party."

Chinese Communist Party - Wikipedia

"

Which countries are communist?

Written and fact-checked by The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica

At one time about one-third of the world's population lived under communist governments, most notably in the republics of the Soviet Union. Today communism is the official form of government in only five countries: China, North Korea, Laos, Cuba, and Vietnam. However, none of these meet the true definition of communism. Instead, they can be said to be in a transitional stage between the end of capitalism and the establishment of communism. Such a phase was outlined by Karl Marx, and it came to include the creation of a dictatorship of the proletariat. While all five countries have authoritarian governments, their commitment to abolishing capitalism is debatable."

Which countries are communist? | Britannica

While they do allow capitalism, they are not totally free in the sense of western democracies because the Communist Party still maintains a certain degree of control of everything that goes on in China.  The people are certainly not free as in the west.  Human rights and individual freedoms do not exist in the same way as the west.

I would be careful saying they are not Communist.  They are a strongly authoritarian system with no freedoms and no understanding of human rights.  Both the encyclopedia Britannica and Wikipedia call them Communist.  I will go by what they say on this.

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

1. Sure it is.  It is extreme control of the population and a denial of individual freedom.

2. Well, he sure is popular because apparently millions of people follow him.   He must be doing something right.  He has struck a nerve.

3. Nobody needs to be "trained" to speak about liberalism or progressivism and expose it.  He has a natural talent.

1. That's not a definition of Communism.

2. He's popular, but that doesn't mean his contribution has value.  That's basic.  Does your principle there apply to everyone, including people you don't like?

3. He's talking about state security and matters he's already shown that he's unprepared to discuss, in the past.

...

Peterson is the kind of person we need to unite people.  But if you're just going to support him because he criticizes liberals, that's your vanity showing.  

[blackbird]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That's not a definition of Communism.

Sure it is.  Authoritarianism, Socialism, control of everything and everyone to some degree, wealth re-distribution are all part of the Communist ideology in a general sense.  The word Communism is a broad term and a state can have many of the characteristics without being a fully fledged Communist state.

His contribution has lots of value.  Large numbers of people think so to.  His reasoning in opposing the woke ideology and liberalism is very good.  I don't actually listen to him much; only the odd occasion so I don't know a lot about him, but what little I've heard generally makes sense.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, blackbird said:

1. Sure it is.  Authoritarianism, Socialism, control of everything and everyone to some degree, wealth re-distribution are all part of the Communist ideology in a general sense. 

2. His contribution has lots of value.  Large numbers of people think so to.  

1. It doesn't mean they're the same thing.  We are smart on this board, so we can be precise in our language.

2. We need someone who can speak to the public in general, not another partisan rabble rouser.  And you repeated the point about a lot of people liking him, without responding at all to my criticism of that point. Taylor Swift has a lot of people who like her, let's make her a moral beacon then?

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Practically the whole world considers China as a Communist state.

"The Chinese Communist Party (CCP),[3] officially the Communist Party of China (CPC),[4] is the founding and sole ruling party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). Under the leadership of Mao Zedong, the CCP emerged victorious in the Chinese Civil War against the Kuomintang. In 1949, Mao proclaimed the establishment of the People's Republic of China. Since then, the CCP has governed China and has had sole control over the People's Liberation Army (PLA). Successive leaders of the CCP have added their own theories to the party's constitution, which outlines the party's ideology, collectively referred to as socialism with Chinese characteristics. As of 2023, the CCP has more than 98 million members, making it the second largest political party by membership in the world after India's Bharatiya Janata Party."

Chinese Communist Party - Wikipedia

"

Which countries are communist?

Written and fact-checked by The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica

At one time about one-third of the world's population lived under communist governments, most notably in the republics of the Soviet Union. Today communism is the official form of government in only five countries: China, North Korea, Laos, Cuba, and Vietnam. However, none of these meet the true definition of communism. Instead, they can be said to be in a transitional stage between the end of capitalism and the establishment of communism. Such a phase was outlined by Karl Marx, and it came to include the creation of a dictatorship of the proletariat. While all five countries have authoritarian governments, their commitment to abolishing capitalism is debatable."

Which countries are communist? | Britannica

While they do allow capitalism, they are not totally free in the sense of western democracies because the Communist Party still maintains a certain degree of control of everything that goes on in China.  The people are certainly not free as in the west.  Human rights and individual freedoms do not exist in the same way as the west.

I would be careful saying they are not Communist.  They are a strongly authoritarian system with no freedoms and no understanding of human rights.  Both the encyclopedia Britannica and Wikipedia call them Communist.  I will go by what they say on this.

China calls itself Communist but if you read the definition of communism, it is not. It is a single party totalitarian state but doesn't operate as a communist state. The name communist comes from commune or everything is jointly owned. The Chinese have property rights, the ability to gain personal wealth and a stock market where anyone can invest in Chinese companies. There is as much disparity between rich and poor in China as there is in western countries.

Edited March 12 by Aristides

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, Aristides said:

China calls itself Communist but if you read the definition of communism, it is not. It is a single party totalitarian state but doesn't operate as a communist state. The name communist comes from commune or everything is jointly owned. The Chinese have property rights, the ability to gain personal wealth and a stock market where anyone can invest in Chinese companies. There is as much disparity between rich and poor in China as there is in western countries.

China is second in the world for number of billionaires, by most lists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_billionaires

[blackbird]

29 minutes ago, Aristides said:

China calls itself Communist but if you read the definition of communism, it is not. It is a single party totalitarian state but doesn't operate as a communist state. The name communist comes from commune or everything is jointly owned. The Chinese have property rights, the ability to gain personal wealth and a stock market where anyone can invest in Chinese companies. There is as much disparity between rich and poor in China as there is in western countries.

You and Michael hold to the liberal idea that China is not that bad.

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You and Michael hold to the liberal idea that China is not that bad.

You need to learn about using words.  Nowhere did we say China was good, nor not bad.

Like I say, this is an internet forum, we have the ability to use all the words we want. There's a full keyboard there on your device. Let's use them to be better than media, and be precise. Are you up for it?

[Aristides]

41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You and Michael hold to the liberal idea that China is not that bad.

Not at all. China just doesn't function as a communist country. At one time it was a communist country but stopped functioning as one when it opened up to the west. It just continues to use the label.  North Korea calls itself The Democratic Peoples Republic when it is nothing of the sort.