Comparing people to vermin or excrement could prompt hate-speech probe under online harms bill, officials say

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I had to think about this one Mike, but you've got a point there. The hyperbole is thick as thieves these days.

The advent of new kinds of media changes the way we see the world, the way government and politics work especially.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Adolph Hitler, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Donald Trump are politicians who have positioned themselves advantageously during a major media pivot.

Media and politics were not the same after.  Politicians who thrived under the old model look befuddled and two dimensional.

Trudeau's schtick of having faceless strategy folks design the policies, while he played cute couldn't survive the scandals, and yet the team continued to believe its own press. Poilievre will inherit a holy mess. 

He will likely drop support for all of the old media but that's going to make it harder to control the message.  The YouTube video he released may be the future of political communication, but we will also need a new digital version of the public intellectual.  That part will be strange but possibly suitable for the task.

The bigger problem will be how to deal with the new world economic order, disunity, and wealth disparity.  

 

 

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The advent of new kinds of media changes the way we see the world, the way government and politics work especially.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Adolph Hitler, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Donald Trump are politicians who have positioned themselves advantageously during a major media pivot.

Media and politics were not the same after.  Politicians who thrived under the old model look befuddled and two dimensional.

Trudeau's schtick of having faceless strategy folks design the policies, while he played cute couldn't survive the scandals, and yet the team continued to believe its own press. Poilievre will inherit a holy mess. 

He will likely drop support for all of the old media but that's going to make it harder to control the message.  The YouTube video he released may be the future of political communication, but we will also need a new digital version of the public intellectual.  That part will be strange but possibly suitable for the task.

The bigger problem will be how to deal with the new world economic order, disunity, and wealth disparity.  

 

 

Why control the message? Why not just let the media do the job they ware meant to do?

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Why control the message? Why not just let the media do the job they ware meant to do?

What politician has ever done that?

You are not cut out to be a politician, which means you are a trustworthy person.

[Nationalist]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

What politician has ever done that?

You are not cut out to be a politician, which means you are a trustworthy person.

I worked with diplomats for years. I got to see and hear them behind closed doors. Not pretty.

The media is supposed to hold their feet to the fire. Not cow to power and become massage boys.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Not cow to power and become massage boys.

Well, all media protect and promote themselves first and foremost and do so without exactly understanding why.  The line producers, editors, writers and on-air personnel will not stand up for a world where they are no longer needed. This is how populism is covered by the media, but they would cover truly left populism the same way.

I will not indulge in conspiracy theories that say they are actively working for one party. They are working for one vision of how the public sphere functions, period.  Otherwise, we would not have heard of the scandals that I cited above.

Trying to get current media to make it work otherwise would be like trying to explain relativity to Sir Isaac Newton.

So in a way, the conspiracy theory people have it right.  

[Nationalist]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, all media protect and promote themselves first and foremost and do so without exactly understanding why.  The line producers, editors, writers and on-air personnel will not stand up for a world where they are no longer needed. This is how populism is covered by the media, but they would cover truly left populism the same way.

I will not indulge in conspiracy theories that say they are actively working for one party. They are working for one vision of how the public sphere functions, period.  Otherwise, we would not have heard of the scandals that I cited above.

Trying to get current media to make it work otherwise would be like trying to explain relativity to Sir Isaac Newton.

So in a way, the conspiracy theory people have it right.  

Which is something that needs to be acknowledged openly by everyone. Journalism is dying and being replaced by partisan politics. It's obvious and needs to be stopped.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Which is something that needs to be acknowledged openly by everyone. Journalism is dying and being replaced by partisan politics. It's obvious and needs to be stopped.

You can't stop death.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't stop death.

Can you dodge it?

In December, Wired magazine revealed that Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Meta and one of the richest individuals on the planet, was building a $100-million US compound in Hawaii.

The fact that Zuckerberg is undertaking a nine-figure renovation is hardly revelatory. The more telling detail is that the compound includes a bunker — 5,000 square feet, to be specific, with concrete walls and an escape hatch.

What does this tell us? It's a sign that at least some of the ultra-rich are anxious about global events and are making contingency plans for the Big One — whatever form that may take.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/billionaire-bunkers-doomsday-1.7130152

I'm starting to think maybe I will get to live long enough to see how it all turns out.

My cardiologist just shook his head at my numbers the other day too and said soldier on! They've been taking about opening me up for the last 15 years now. Soldier on? I can do that.

It's funny how my personal Big One and the world's Big One seem to be closing in one one another.

All through my life I've had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was."

"No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 

[Army Guy]

On 3/8/2024 at 10:41 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Internet and YouTube journalists are fine but they don't fund deep investigation.  So the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the ArriveCan, Truth and Reconciliation Day hooky, the WE organization scandal... these were uncovered by The Globe and Mail, Global News and the CBC.

 

Yes the uncovered the misdeeds of government, to sell news for a profit...these stories are really no better than gossip, these government scandals are entertainment for all political parties, gives us something to talk about at the water cooler....nothing will be done to those responsible nor any consequences will every come of these scandals...

and if you think it is the voters that are going to hold them responsible think again...Justin's unpopularity are not due to these scandals'  but rather how he handled other crises in Canada... Liberal voters did not care about these scandals

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

1. Can you dodge it?

2. In December, Wired magazine revealed that Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Meta and one of the richest individuals on the planet, was building a $100-million US compound in Hawaii.

The fact that Zuckerberg is undertaking a nine-figure renovation is hardly revelatory. The more telling detail is that the compound includes a bunker — 5,000 square feet, to be specific, with concrete walls and an escape hatch.

What does this tell us? It's a sign that at least some of the ultra-rich are anxious about global events and are making contingency plans for the Big One — whatever form that may take.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/billionaire-bunkers-doomsday-1.7130152

3. I'm starting to think maybe I will get to live long enough to see how it all turns out.

4. It's funny how my personal Big One and the world's Big One seem to be closing in one one another.

All through my life I've had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was."

"No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 

1. Not forever.  But I was kind of joking around on the ambiguity in the previous post.

2. Of course they know. But I think that the populists themselves know.  You can't give torches to the villagers and be surprised when they come to burn down your compound.

3. More than likely someone will figure out that Facebook and their ilk can be done better, and at less monetary and social costs.  

4. Tell your loved ones to come on here and tell us.  I'll say now that it's been fun. Later on, I'll go for a ride on your other side boat...

 

 

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. More than likely someone will figure out that Facebook and their ilk can be done better, and at less monetary and social costs.  

I'm pretty sure sidestepping Facebook et al and focusing our cameras and microphones more directly on the government would come at a great cost to anyone trying to evade society's costs.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

1. Yes the uncovered the misdeeds of government, to sell news for a profit...these stories are really no better than gossip, these government scandals are entertainment for all political parties, gives us something to talk about at the water cooler....nothing will be done to those responsible nor any consequences will every come of these scandals...

2. and if you think it is the voters that are going to hold them responsible think again...Justin's unpopularity are not due to these scandals'  but rather how he handled other crises in Canada... Liberal voters did not care about these scandals

1. If you look at the polls, you might get an idea of what's going to be done.

2. Maybe not, but is there really no value in journalism at all?

 

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm pretty sure sidestepping Facebook et al and focusing our cameras and microphones more directly on the government would come at a great cost to anyone trying to evade society's costs.

You don't believe that at all. IF you did you'd have held justin accountable for what he did instead of defending him over his misdeeds.

There's no value in paying attention to what the politicos are doing if you're not  willing to hold them accountable.

[eyeball]

50 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You don't believe that at all.

Which can only mean you must believe it.

Quote

There's no value in paying attention to what the politicos are doing if you're not  willing to hold them accountable.

Wow. That's just so woke.

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Wow. That's just so woke.

Eyeball... What would you think about an idea to monitor politicians ?... Mean like with cameras? 😂

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Eyeball... What would you think about an idea to monitor politicians ?... Mean like with cameras? 😂

I just wish some conservative would take up the idea....I should write Trump or Tucker a letter. If they grokked it every chud on the planet would be clamouring for it by the end of day.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I just wish some conservative would take up the idea....I should write Trump or Tucker a letter. If they grokked it every chud on the planet would be clamouring for it by the end of day.

Gotta love those Chuds...

[Nefarious Banana]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Gotta love those Chuds...

Quips the Chump . . .

[betsy]

I don't think anything can be done with online.  It's only going to get worse with AI.

That's our new reality! 

 

The best way is to limit your exposure to it.  Parents have control of their children (with these devices).....unless parents get in on the act of actively controlling them, children will be exposed to all sorts of harm.  And add online protection (identifying and dealing with scams, bullies, predators, do's and don'ts,  etc),   to the curriculum (which will have to be updated as technology advances). 

I'm for banning cell phones or tablets inside classrooms.  Only the teacher will have an active cellphone, in case of red alerts for active shooters etc.,

 

When you're online - every person for himself!  We can't help everyone.

Edited March 10 by betsy

[Nationalist]

22 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't stop death.

You think journalism is dying? Meh...you might be right.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

You think journalism is dying? Meh...you might be right.

Well you just said so in the post above. I agree that it's under existential threat.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You think journalism is dying? Meh...you might be right.

It kind of depends on what you mean by 'journalism'.

I think we have this idealistic vision of "journalists" and "reporters" as jimmy olsen types with their press cards stuck in their fedorah and radio personalities saying  "Good evening mr and mrs america and all the ships at sea.  Flash! - today...."

I think that journalists  have always been entertainers more than we think. Or just tools of propaganda, such as the old school 'town crier' who simply said what the authorities wrote for him.

I think journalism is changing - it's becoming more 'you tube influencers' and blogs and even places like this.

I think for a time in history 'journalists' felt that being somewhat honest and having the appearance of integrity was a great marketing gimmick.  But i think they'll go in another direction now and that journalism at the end of the day is just some guy collecting facts and misinterpreting them to others.

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I think journalism is changing - it's becoming more 'you tube influencers' and blogs and even places like this.

Influencers like you in others words?

LMAO!

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Influencers like you in others words?

LMAO!

Joking aside there was a time when i cared about a specific political issue and was on a forum with many thousands of other canadians who were also interested in that issue and i helped organize and influence a LOT of people. And in the end we achieved what we wanted to.  Took years but we did. After that i wasn't as focused on politics tho i still dabble. 

So yeah - just like me.  Literallyl thousand of letters were written many hundred volunteers mobilized, numerous articles written and dozens and dozens of MP's lobbied and influenced because of my online activities. 

And in fact you don't have to look very far to see that happening with others today.

Now this place is too small to influence very many but there's plenty of places that are larger where people can and do.

Hell - look at what PP has done with X and youtube. He practically  built his brand and influenced hundreds of thousands of Canadians that way.

That's why the gov't is introducing their 'harms' bill in the first place and has been so freaked about controlling the interent.

So remember all that every time you say something stupidly socialist - you never know who's watching   LOLOLOL

[WestCanMan]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:02 PM, CdnFox said:

https://archive.ph/QTGt8#selection-2301.0-2301.109

Portraying a group of people as violent online – or comparing them to vermin, excrement or animals – could trigger a probe under the Canadian Human Rights Act, according to new provisions in the online harms bill, the Justice Department says.

Some lawyers have warned that the ability to make such a civil complaint – with a lower burden of proof than a court of law – could have a chilling effect on free speech.

 

Under the changes to the bill, people found guilty of posting hate speech could be forced to take down the post and pay victims up to $20,000 in compensation. And if they refuse to comply, for example by repeatedly reposting hate speech, they could face a fine of up to $50,000.

 

 

So - calling conservatives chuds.'

Saying the palestinians started the war.

Saying the russians are agressive or war like

Saying the woke are full of shit.

 

Up to 20,000 dollars in fines.

 

This is what we've come to,

Let's not pretend that this isn't a political weapon.

We all know that calling conservatives white supremacists or talking like they're the only race of people to ever own slaves won't result in ten cents worth of fines, but if you correctly point out the fact that mohammed chopped people's heads off for not converting islam and that he forced women and children into slavery, you'll be out thousands of dollars.