Canadians ridicule Trudeau gov’t after ‘renewable’ energy failure nearly ends in catastrophe

[CdnFox]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/canadians-ridicule-trudeau-govt-after-renewable-energy-failure-nearly-ends-in-catastrophe/

'How many would be dead in Alberta tonight if all they had was wind turbines and solar panels to rely on? -31 in Edmonton tonight,' one popular Canadian social media user said during last weekend's cold snap.

An extreme cold snap which led to near minus 50 degrees Celsius (58 degrees Fahrenheit) temperatures in much of Western Canada over the weekend, and nearly caused one province’s power grid to collapse due to a failure of wind and solar power, saw many call out Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government’s green energy agenda which is looking to phase out carbon-based power in favor of “renewables.” 

“How many would be dead in Alberta tonight if all they had was wind turbines and solar panels to rely on? -31 in Edmonton tonight,” posted X, formerly Twitter, user John Lee Pettimore.  

 

Interesting take on it.  I mean - he's not wrong.

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, CdnFox said:

John Lee Pettimore.  

Well my name's John Lee Pettimore...

The same as my daddy and his daddy before.

You hardly ever saw grandaddy down here,

He'd only come to town about twice a year.

[WestCanMan]

 

[herbie]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

How many would be dead in Alberta tonight if all they had was wind turbines and solar panels to rely on?

Questions only a fool would ask.

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, herbie said:

Questions only a fool would ask.

Yes - only the truly dumb would care about the loss of life due to extreme weather.

How's those global warming predictions working for you?  

[herbie]

Darwinism.

Those too stupid to light a fire along with those stupid enough to imagine implausable circumstances would be removed from the gene pool.

[BeaverFever]

On 1/18/2024 at 7:36 PM, CdnFox said:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/canadians-ridicule-trudeau-govt-after-renewable-energy-failure-nearly-ends-in-catastrophe/

'How many would be dead in Alberta tonight if all they had was wind turbines and solar panels to rely on? -31 in Edmonton tonight,' one popular Canadian social media user said during last weekend's cold snap.

An extreme cold snap which led to near minus 50 degrees Celsius (58 degrees Fahrenheit) temperatures in much of Western Canada over the weekend, and nearly caused one province’s power grid to collapse due to a failure of wind and solar power, saw many call out Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government’s green energy agenda which is looking to phase out carbon-based power in favor of “renewables.” 

“How many would be dead in Alberta tonight if all they had was wind turbines and solar panels to rely on? -31 in Edmonton tonight,” posted X, formerly Twitter, user John Lee Pettimore.  

 

Interesting take on it.  I mean - he's not wrong.

Straw man argument. Neither Trudeau nor anyone else has ever said wind and solar should be all they had”.  
 

Alberta, which dubiously claims to be an “energy superpower” has an energy shortage. 
 

Alberta, just like its idol Texas, has for decades bragged about its privatized electricity system in the name of capitalism, now risks freezing in the dark during a brutal winter just like Texas did.

 

Alberta, who for decades bragged about its privatized electricity system in the name of capitalism, now wants to create a publicly owned and operated electricity provider to save Albertans from freezing in the dark  

 

Alberta, like Texas is trying to blame windmills for its energy problems. It’s energy problems are of its own making 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Darwinism.

Those too stupid to light a fire along with those stupid enough to imagine implausable circumstances would be removed from the gene pool.

If we allow you to live, those guys should be exempted too  

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Alberta, which dubiously claims to be an “energy superpower” has an energy shortage. 
 

yeah.' they've been desperately trying to go green. The hope was to keep ottawa happy seeing as they want everything else shut down in the near future'. It all just failed and it turns out they should have been building more natural gas  systmes all along.

This is what happens when you allow the woke to run your life.  it's an epic fail. 

You think that those people will ever give a crap about the environment again? all Justin is doing by forcing the shut down and banning of fossil power generators BEFORE there's a viable alternative is making people hate trying to save the environment.

[BeaverFever]

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

yeah.' they've been desperately trying to go green.

Baloney. Alberta is not desperately trying to go green.  Smith out a moratorium on renewables 6 months prior to this grid alert initiated a bunch of gas plant projects 

 

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The hope was to keep ottawa happy

Double baloney. Smith has based her entire persona on opposing and denouncing Ottawa generally and Trudeau specifically as much as possible. 
 

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

as they want everything else shut down in the near future'.

Triple baloney, nobody has ever said any such thing 

 

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

it turns out they should have been building more natural gas  systmes all along.

Quadruple baloney You know the federal clean energy policy only just came out in August, right? But Alberta’s had 21 grid alerts like this since 2017

 

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

This is what happens when you allow the woke to run your life.  it's an epic fail. 

“Woke” are not running anything in Alberta aka wannabe Texas  Alberta wants to imitate Texas and so they also have the same problems as Texas

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You think that those people will ever give a crap about the environment again?

What do you mean AGAIN?  They never dod in the first place 

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

all Justin is doing by forcing the shut down and banning of fossil power generators BEFORE there's a viable alternative

Fake news on so many levels. No forced shutdowns, no bans, not “before” there’s a viable alternative.  The target is 2035 and even afterwards provinces can still build new gas plants. Also NET zero emissions doesn’t mean zero emissions it means emissions are offset. And Alberta is already working with Ontario to develop nuclear power so that will go a long way. 
 

Alberta’s energy shortage was due to the failure of two gas plants.JUST TWO. They remained offline but the shortage was alleviated not long after when wind and solar generation improved :

 

Alberta Premier Blames Renewables After Cold Snap, Idled Gas Plants Trigger Grid Emergency

Earlier this month, a report by the Union of Concerned Scientists warned that gas plants are more prone to failure in extreme weather events, including heatwaves, cold snaps, and droughts, than utilities or the gas lobby have been inclined to admit.

Leach affirmed that the Canadian and U.S. grids can make the switch to largely renewable systems without compromising reliability, but said he understood the impulse to push back on the federal Clean Electricity Regulations.

“That presents a really big challenge and I think people have been too quick to wave that away,” he said.

Politicizing the Response

But that nuanced view of the provincial grid wasn’t very much in evidence in Alberta politicians’ immediate response to the emergency alert. “Right now, wind is generating almost no power,” Alberta Premier Danielle Smith posted. “When renewables are unreliable, as they are now, natural gas plants must increase capacity to keep Albertans safe.”
 

…But by then, CP wrote, the AESO had “partially pinned the crisis on two natural gas generators that weren’t operating, as well as a lack of renewable energy being produced due to low winds and a shortage of daylight at this time of year.” Data posted by Leach showed solar and wind capacity down by 8,130 MW, gas by about 2,600, but in the same newsletter he referred to two gas plants totalling 7,000 MW that were offline.

 

…

Renewables to the Rescue

In the end, the provincial grid evened out “as increasing wind and solar generation have created some relief on the system,” the AESO posted on social media late Monday morning. “Please continue conservation efforts during peak hours of 4-7 p.m. as extreme cold continues to challenge all of us in Western Canada.”

 

…

To say that the renewables are unreliable, I think that’s more of a political statement,” said Sara Hastings-Simon, a professor at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy. “I would say renewables weren’t generating, but whether that’s part of the problem, I guess it depends on what one says the problem is.”

The provincial grid “has to be designed and made up of a set of resources that are going to be able to meet demand at its peak and meet demand at its most stressed times,” she added. “You do that through a combination of resources, certainly looking forward with a goal of decarbonization.”

 

…The real root of the problem, Lourie said, was an entirely deregulated provincial grid, the only one in Canada, with only limited interties to neighbouring jurisdictions. That analysis echoed the experience in Texas three years ago when about 700 people died, half of the state was under a boil water order, and racialized communities bore the brunt after climate change-driven severe weather imperiled the state’s islanded grid.

https://www.theenergymix.com/alberta-premier-blames-renewables-after-cold-snap-idled-gas-plants-trigger-grid-emergency/
 

Alberta electricity operator ends grid alert after more wind and sun helped system

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/alberta-electricity-operator-ends-grid-alert-after-more-wind-and-sun-helped-system/wcm/57a3111e-849f-4be2-a493-1cd0514bf65c/amp/
 

 

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Baloney. Alberta is not desperately trying to go green.  Smith out a moratorium on renewables 6 months prior to this grid alert initiated a bunch of gas plant projects

 

 

Sigh - this is going to be another boring situation where i have to explain the truth to you because you're too stupid to look it up first isn't it.

They have been pushing like mad.

Today, Alberta is home to more than three quarters of the wind and solar built in Canada in 2022.

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/environment/weather/climatechange/climate-action/powering-future-clean-energy/overview-alberta.html

Alberta is actually fast becoming a renewable energy leader in Canada. So much so that smith hit pause a few months back because of concerns they were going too fast and hadn't assessed things properly - looks like she was right

 

Quote

Double baloney. Smith has based her entire persona on opposing and denouncing Ottawa generally and Trudeau specifically as much as possible. 

 

Sigh  - smith has been in for like a year and a half.  It may shock you to learn that there was energy before her arrival.

Further while she's not afraid of a fight the govt had agreed to certain things hoping it would keep ottawa happy. It did not.

Quote

Triple baloney, nobody has ever said any such thing 

Triple sigh, the new draft regs are already out and the caps will take place in 2035 - this is what smith is fighting ottawa about at the moment.

 

Quote

Quadruple baloney You know the federal clean energy policy only just came out in August, right? But Alberta’s had 21 grid alerts like this since 2017

They've been talking about it for years now. What you thought they just woke up one morning and published it? This has been a bone of contention for years.  Many years.

And Alberta has been pushing renewables and is proceeding with nuclear power etc.  But - that's not enough for ottawa of course.   Trying to make them happy was a mistake.

 

Quote

“Woke” are not running anything in Alberta

 

They are in ottawa and that's what's driving this. It's fine to suppliment a grid with renewables - but you should always have enough reliable power for your needs if required.

The woke don't care if they get people killed. 
 

Quote

Alberta Premier Blames Renewables After Cold Snap, Idled Gas Plants Trigger Grid Emergency

And she's correct.  The gas plants stayed up and running. The renewables did not - they almost completely failed.

Not surprising you'd scour the web desperately looking for articles that would support your religious beliefs but - sorry, that's not what happened. What happened is that the gas plants and bc's hydro plants kept going. The wind and solar was less than useles.

 

Sorry that dosen't jive with your echo chamber but c'mon.  It's bloody obvious.  Solar and wind are great ways to supplement a power grid, they are NOT useful for trying to replace one. As alberta just proved. If they can't get the nukes on line fast enough they'll have to beef up their gas generators.

[herbie]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

they've been desperately trying to go green

Aw gee Beaver, don't be mean and call outright lies what they are. You're talking with Mr Fallacy himself can't say anything that isn't one, can't see on if you underline it...

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Aw gee Beaver, don't be mean and call outright lies what they are. You're talking with Mr Fallacy himself can't say anything that isn't one, can't see on if you underline it...

LOL - already posted the proof it's true   You should have read ahead 

 Truth and facts are like you're kriptonite  

[Aristides]

19 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Straw man argument. Neither Trudeau nor anyone else has ever said wind and solar should be all they had”.  
 

Alberta, which dubiously claims to be an “energy superpower” has an energy shortage. 
 

Alberta, just like its idol Texas, has for decades bragged about its privatized electricity system in the name of capitalism, now risks freezing in the dark during a brutal winter just like Texas did.

 

Alberta, who for decades bragged about its privatized electricity system in the name of capitalism, now wants to create a publicly owned and operated electricity provider to save Albertans from freezing in the dark  

 

Alberta, like Texas is trying to blame windmills for its energy problems. It’s energy problems are of its own making 

Not true. Texas failed because it isn't part of a state wide grid system, Alberta was saved because it is part of a province wide grid system and could draw from BC and Sask. BC imported 20% of its power last year due to low water levels in reservoirs. Solar and wind were useless to Alberta during the recent cold snap because the wind doesn't blow when those big arctic high pressures dominate and solar is next to useless because days are so short and  the sun is so low on the horizon. 

[CdnFox]

24 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not true. Texas failed because it isn't part of a state wide grid system, Alberta was saved because it is part of a province wide grid system and could draw from BC and Sask. BC imported 20% of its power last year due to low water levels in reservoirs. Solar and wind were useless to Alberta during the recent cold snap because the wind doesn't blow when those big arctic high pressures dominate and solar is next to useless because days are so short and  the sun is so low on the horizon. 

Well it should be obvious that's the problem. It's amazing people would even debate it.  Until power storage tech radically improves neither wind nor solar can do more than supliment the grid.

Which means you really have to have enough gas powered generation to provide for your worst needs no matter what.  The hope would be that renewables reduce your need to use those all the time and when the wind blows and the sun shines you don't burn gas so to speak.  Maybe when the nukes start to come online in alberta they can cut back on gas plants but not right now.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Not true. Texas failed because it isn't part of a state wide grid system, Alberta was saved because it is part of a province wide grid system and could draw from BC and Sask. BC imported 20% of its power last year due to low water levels in reservoirs. Solar and wind were useless to Alberta during the recent cold snap because the wind doesn't blow when those big arctic high pressures dominate and solar is next to useless because days are so short and  the sun is so low on the horizon. 

Well as the links I posted make clear BOTH statements are true. Alberta and Texas similarly suffer from a lack of domestic generation capacity AND a lack of connections to external grids (which in the case of Texas were non-existent). Alberta’s recent electricity shortage was actually alleviated only when wind a solar came back on ljne a couple of days later

[WestCanMan]

On 1/19/2024 at 3:34 PM, herbie said:

Questions only a fool would ask.

Remember class, there are no stupid questions. Except for herbie's. 

[Aristides]

45 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Well as the links I posted make clear BOTH statements are true. Alberta and Texas similarly suffer from a lack of domestic generation capacity AND a lack of connections to external grids (which in the case of Texas were non-existent). Alberta’s recent electricity shortage was actually alleviated only when wind a solar came back on ljne a couple of days later

Alberta has connections to external grids. How else did they get power from BC and Saskatchewan, by rail?

Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/power-risk-winter-heat-overload-demand-1.7087499

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-electrical-grid-emergency-decarbonization-1.7083664

Edited January 21, 2024 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter.

Which is what we should use it for.  Hey - build all the solar they want, mabye during the summer during the daytime they won't need to burn a drop of gas, it'll only run at night and in the winter.  Nothing wrong with that. But you better have enough capacity in your generators for the times there's no wind and no sun

[WestCanMan]

47 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter.

In Langley, which starts at the 49th parallel, my weather app says we get sunshine from 7:53 to 4:49 today. 8 hrs 56m.

Edm says 8:45 to 4:55. 8 Hrs 10 minutes.

46 extra minutes down at the border doesn't make for a whole lot of extra energy for a solar panel. 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In Langley, which starts at the 49th parallel, my weather app says we get sunshine from 7:53 to 4:49 today. 8 hrs 56m.

Edm says 8:45 to 4:55. 8 Hrs 10 minutes.

46 extra minutes down at the border doesn't make for a whole lot of extra energy for a solar panel. 

IT actually does make a difference along with the intensity of the sun due to elevation.  It's still worth having solar but it sure doesn't make it MORE reliable.

[herbie]

Yet

Duh...

the fool bases his entire post on relying just on solar and wind, at their level right now, with no storage in place, as if everything else is switched off -CLICK- and sun & solar are the only alternative energy solutions.

When you have a foot dragging, absolute obstructionist like Smith in power who's sole policy is to bash Ottawa, Albertans can look forward to entire term of foot dragging and regressive proposals. Supported by the dimwits that can only see part of something, refuse to see or even admit there can be more to it, and simply object to anything they consider new or different.

Any hydro projects, nuclear, geothermal, electrical storage planned or under construction? Why the f*ck not? Just keep listening  to people who think you can only make electricity from coal., gas or oil.

 

Edited January 21, 2024 by herbie

[Nefarious Banana]

28 minutes ago, herbie said:

When you have a foot dragging, absolute obstructionist like Smith in power who's sole policy is to bash Ottawa, Albertans can look forward to entire term of foot dragging and regressive proposals. Supported by the dimwits that can only see part of something, refuse to see or even admit there can be more to it, and simply object to anything they consider new or different.

Any hydro projects, nuclear, geothermal, electrical storage planned or under construction? Why the f*ck not? Just keep listening  to people who think you can only make electricity from coal., gas or oil.

Why the hate for Alberta and Premier D. Smith?  She's doing what's good for her province. 

Anger management and meds not really working out for you?

[Aristides]

33 minutes ago, herbie said:

Yet

Duh...

the fool bases his entire post on relying just on solar and wind, at their level right now, with no storage in place, as if everything else is switched off -CLICK- and sun & solar are the only alternative energy solutions.

When you have a foot dragging, absolute obstructionist like Smith in power who's sole policy is to bash Ottawa, Albertans can look forward to entire term of foot dragging and regressive proposals. Supported by the dimwits that can only see part of something, refuse to see or even admit there can be more to it, and simply object to anything they consider new or different.

Any hydro projects, nuclear, geothermal, electrical storage planned or under construction? Why the f*ck not? Just keep listening  to people who think you can only make electricity from coal., gas or oil.

 

Alberta is third in both wind and solar generating capacity.  Where is this hydro generation supposed to come from? Who has electrical storage capacity? Only a tiny amount of electricity is generated from geo thermal in Canada. 

 

https://energyrates.ca/the-main-electricity-sources-in-canada-by-province/

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well it should be obvious that's the problem. It's amazing people would even debate it.  Until power storage tech radically improves neither wind nor solar can do more than supliment the grid.

Which means you really have to have enough gas powered generation to provide for your worst needs no matter what.  The hope would be that renewables reduce your need to use those all the time and when the wind blows and the sun shines you don't burn gas so to speak.  Maybe when the nukes start to come online in alberta they can cut back on gas plants but not right now.

Those 'green' technologies are literally like toys compared to what is needed to provide sustained, high power. Only fossil fuel and nuclear are capable of doing it reliably. Besides, they ain't that green either. When it comes to energy, there is no free lunch.

Me, I am growing increasingly anti-nuclear in my view as I find out more about the plans, and more specifically lack of plans to deal with nuclear waste. I think the smaller SMR's reduce that risk of serious nuclear accidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima by spreading them out over a larger area, but that's just a numbers game. The real issue is the toxic and radioactive waste of nuclear, which will persist for 100's of thousands of years. It's unlikely that our civilization will be around anywhere near that long. Without constant human attention and intervention, these technologies can become a threat to all life.

So I'd rather see we continue using fossil fuel, and invest more in R&D to "scrub" out the pollutants and to recover the carbon. Surely there are still many possibilities for improvements in that. Making fossil fuel a more efficient of an energy source is already a big step to reducing carbon, if that is in fact a problem at all...