Gaétan Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Albertans don't have to freeze, they just have to build nuclear power plants and keep the gas-fired ones until they're up and running 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Alberta has connections to external grids I never said they didn’t have ANY but as the link I shared said they had TOO FEW On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter Everyone understands how wind and solar work. They are for generating BASE-LOAD electricity not PEAK electricity. PEAK electricity should come fe sour that can quickly turn on amd off, like gas plants. Albertas problem is that its privatized grid (where private companies build their own generating stations) does not possess the right mix of power sources….which is not the same thing as it had too much renewable or that JT is somehow to blame. They only had 2 gas generators available for peak demand and both were offline. On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Alberta has connections to external grids I never said they didn’t have ANY but as the link I shared said they had TOO FEW On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter Everyone understands how wind and solar work. They are for generating BASE-LOAD electricity not PEAK electricity. PEAK electricity should come fe sour that can quickly turn on amd off, like gas plants. Albertas problem is that its privatized grid (where private companies build their own generating stations) does not possess the right mix of power sources….which is not the same thing as it had too much renewable or that JT is somehow to blame. They only had 2 gas generators available for peak demand and both were offline. On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Alberta has connections to external grids I never said they didn’t have ANY but as the link I shared said they had TOO FEW On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter Everyone understands how wind and solar work. They are for generating BASE-LOAD electricity not PEAK electricity. PEAK electricity should come fe sour that can quickly turn on amd off, like gas plants. Albertas problem is that its privatized grid (where private companies build their own generating stations) does not possess the right mix of power sources….which is not the same thing as it had too much renewable or that JT is somehow to blame. They only had 2 gas generators available for peak demand and both were offline. On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Alberta has connections to external grids I never said they didn’t have ANY but as the link I shared said they had TOO FEW On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter Everyone understands how wind and solar work. They are for generating BASE-LOAD electricity not PEAK electricity. PEAK electricity should come fe sour that can quickly turn on amd off, like gas plants. Albertas problem is that its privatized grid (where private companies build their own generating stations) does not possess the right mix of power sources….which is not the same thing as it had too much renewable or that JT is somehow to blame. They only had 2 gas generators available for peak demand and both were offline. On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Alberta has connections to external grids I never said they didn’t have ANY but as the link I shared said they had TOO FEW On 1/21/2024 at 3:49 PM, Aristides said: Edmonton gets about 8 hours of daylight this time of year and the sun is very low on the horizon. Solar is pretty useless. Great in the long days of summer if you need air conditioning but not so much in winter Everyone understands how wind and solar work. They are for generating BASE-LOAD electricity not PEAK electricity. PEAK electricity should come fe sour that can quickly turn on amd off, like gas plants. Albertas problem is that its privatized grid (where private companies build their own generating stations) does not possess the right mix of power sources….which is not the same thing as it had too much renewable or that JT is somehow to blame. They only had 2 gas generators available for peak demand and both were offline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 On 1/20/2024 at 10:23 PM, CdnFox said: Sigh - this is going to be another boring situation Well you got the first 8 words right but then you go downhill fast from there! 1) The 2 consecutive UCP governments that have ruled Alberta since April 2019 have been anti-Renewable and anti-Ottawa and anti-Liberal, which pretty much describes EVERY Alberta government in modern history except for Rachel Notley’s short-lived NDP government ….more on that in a moment. To suggest Smith and/or Kenney purposely sabotaged Alberta’s electricity grid woth “supposedly unreliable renewables just to please JT is ludicrous, considering their political identity is largely based on fighting and attacking JT. Furthermore Alberta has the only PRIVATIZED grid in Canada, meaning the province doesn’t build generators, private investors do…more on that in a moment also 3) The bulk of Alberta’s renewable energy was built or initiated by private enterprise in response to incentives created under Rachel Notley’s NDP government which was in power May 2015-Apri 2019. Not to please Trudeau but because as a left wing government Notley also understand renewable energy is the future 4) The private industry didn’t massively invest in Alberta renewables in 2015-2019 because of JT’s energy policy that was released in August 2023. Even if the them-newly elected first-term JT was “talking about it “ that early on , investors wouldn’t have been investing billions on something that was years away from having any details figured out and wasn’t even in writing under a just-elected government. 5) As I mentioned in my earlier post Renewables form part of the mix for BASE LOAD demand not peak demand Gas plants are ideal for PEAK demand as they can quickly be turned on and off unlike most other sources. As Ive said many times now but you continue to ignore because it’s an inconvenient truth: Alberta’s own regulator said the shortage was due to just 2 gas plants being offline (one broke down due to the cold). It did not say that Alberta had too much renewables. In fact it said renewables made up the shortfall omce the wind picked up while the gas plants remained offline. 6( As mentioned The federal energy policy still allows provinces to build new gas plants and operate them for 20 years thereafter So again you overreach in your need to blame everything including the weather on JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 27 Author Report Share Posted January 27 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: I never said they didn’t have ANY but as the link I shared said they had TOO FEW Everyone understands how wind and solar work. They are for generating BASE-LOAD electricity not PEAK electricity. PEAK electricity should come fe sour that can quickly turn on amd off, like gas plants. Albertas problem is that its privatized grid (where private companies build their own generating stations) does not possess the right mix of power sources….which is not the same thing as it had too much renewable or that JT is somehow to blame. They only had 2 gas generators available for peak demand and both were offline. well almost all of that is completely accurate. There are ties to neighbouring provinces but there are not enough and this has been commented on before by politicians. Scheer wanted to go a step further and create a canada long "Energy conduit" to move oil, gas, AND electricity so that provinces could share what they had and places with surplus power could cover places that were short. And yes - solar and wind lets you turn the gas plants off when it's available and that's great but you still need to have your peak power needs covered by Reliables, not renewables. Alberta is adding new modular reactors which are clean and more affordable but that's going to take time. As to JT... it would be wrong to say he's to blame directly, but he has made numerous threats in the last few years to force the procince to shut down their gas genertaion and his lastest proposed laws will severely limit them, so alberta and sask have been working hard on renewables hoping that would calm him down. Alberta in the last 3 years has actually made an absolutely massive investment in renewables. The decisions were made in alberta and they weren't "Forced" per se, but seriously... yeah, it was jt's policy and pressure that moved them to do that. Imagine being one of the most energy rich places on earth and freezing during a winter storm because you got shy about using that energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 27 Author Report Share Posted January 27 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Well you got the first 8 words right but then you go downhill fast from there! Sadly- i got 'em all right. The tragic part is you're not the dumbest leftie on the board - but sometimes you really act that way. Quote 1) The 2 consecutive UCP governments that have ruled Alberta since April 2019 have been anti-Renewable I've already poven that's a lie. They've invested in renewables more than just about any other province and have plans to keep going. They got so far ahead of themselves they had to slow projects down to review things and get a handle on it. Like - I posted proof of this. You're just making shit up because you're struggling with the truth. Why?!? If you HAVE to lie to make your point then it's time to rethink your point! As to the rest - every private renewable project still needs the support of the gov't. And JT has been spewing his anti alberta oil 'shut them down' bullcrap since 2015. Pretending that he JUST started thinking and talking about it this year is assinine. It makes you look like a completely uneducated jackass. 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: As Ive said many times now but you continue to ignore You mean once? To me anyway. You're interpreting what he said. But at the end of the day they also said they had relied on the renewables because their modeling said there would be more wind and they were surprised. And the end result is the same - you can't have your gas units off line and rely on renewables or this happens. So you need to build more to cover your power needs - because some are going to have to go off line for maintenance if nothing else once in a while and you can't rely on renewabls. You need to have reliables on line. It boggles my mind that you can go from relatively reasonable in one post to completely brain dead loser who's ignoring facts already presented in the other. Bottom line - renewables are great as a suppliment to reduce use of oil or gas etc. but you need to have enough reliable energy online to meet your needs at all times or you put your people in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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