myata Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 U.S. assistance to Ukraine has 'ground to a halt' (Kirby) In the late 1990s, Ukraine gave up massive amounts of nuclear arms in exchange for guarantees of security. Now, couple of decades later, the true worth of the "guarantees" is in the plain sight of the world and the money have dried out. Too bad. But we are calling for. No: they aren't getting it after all. It's not about their little pre-election games, scoring couple of points here, giving one there. It's about the credibility, the word of a country: what is it worth now and for decades? generations? They aren't getting it because they are in a different world. No further comments why throwing useless words in the cold air. Two questions only: Who, given the evident reality and in their right mind, would give up nukes now? As opposed to getting them, at the first opportunity and as much as can be carried away? Where would any land, country that may feel insecure turn for protection and security from now and on, for the observable perspective? Silly, careless, naive, inhumanly wise, subtle or who knows: they just don't seem to get, or care what is really at stake here. Why don't we just try and find out. There's always a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Lol...oh @myata...you knew this was coming. We all did. Grow up man. The USA has reneged on its "word" so many times that it's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 All I can say is hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! 😝 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Sooner or later, support for this war was going to stop. Russia is committed, so they have zero choice to do or die by this war, even if it means completely hollowing out its economy. The US won't have an appetite that big, and Russia has banked heavily on it. Sooner or later, appetite for this war will dwindle, and then Russia could hit those countries with a psychological blow, by going all out, forcing a rushed peace deal to be hashed out, with them in the driver's seat with the leverage. The only way out is negotiation. Longer you draw this out, the more you lose in accepting that reality you will be facing one way or another. Winning the war is PR, to salvage pride. Pride doesn't care in war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: Sooner or later, support for this war was going to stop. Russia is committed, so they have zero choice to do or die by this war, even if it means completely hollowing out its economy. The US won't have an appetite that big, and Russia has banked heavily on it. Sooner or later, appetite for this war will dwindle, and then Russia could hit those countries with a psychological blow, by going all out, forcing a rushed peace deal to be hashed out, with them in the driver's seat with the leverage. The only way out is negotiation. Longer you draw this out, the more you lose in accepting that reality you will be facing one way or another. Winning the war is PR, to salvage pride. Pride doesn't care in war. Originally...before the Brits killed the Turkish peace deal...I believe the plan was for Ukraine to maintain Odessa. Now it appears Putin intends on taking Odessa. Perhaps out of spite...perhaps so Russia controls the sea access. Ya gotta wonder if Zelinsky and NATO would like a bigger shovel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 8 hours ago, myata said: U.S. assistance to Ukraine has 'ground to a halt' (Kirby) In the late 1990s, Ukraine gave up massive amounts of nuclear arms in exchange for guarantees of security. Now, couple of decades later, the true worth of the "guarantees" is in the plain sight of the world and the money have dried out. Too bad. But we are calling for. No: they aren't getting it after all. It's not about their little pre-election games, scoring couple of points here, giving one there. It's about the credibility, the word of a country: what is it worth now and for decades? generations? They aren't getting it because they are in a different world. No further comments why throwing useless words in the cold air. Two questions only: Who, given the evident reality and in their right mind, would give up nukes now? As opposed to getting them, at the first opportunity and as much as can be carried away? Where would any land, country that may feel insecure turn for protection and security from now and on, for the observable perspective? Silly, careless, naive, inhumanly wise, subtle or who knows: they just don't seem to get, or care what is really at stake here. Why don't we just try and find out. There's always a first. You and the right wingers here like to pretend ^this is the decision of our Nation, when IN REALITY, it is the small minority of MAGA CULT members in the House which is blocking aid to Ukraine, at the behest of der leader and in service to his comrade Putin. 🤮 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 5 hours ago, Perspektiv said: (Russia) Hitler is committed, so they have zero choice to do or die by this war, even if it means Our ancestors got it, and did it all wrong. OK. The history is taking the note: as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, robosmith said: when IN REALITY, it is the small minority So, pointing fingers is all you can do? At the time of possibly, existential challenge? That's some C-in-C speaking, right there? A winning strategy? And for the Republicans it's simple really: if the assistance is failed for no other cause but this mindless hostage game, every single name, in the House and Senate, will go on the list of those who walked away from their responsibility before the future. Every single one, no excuses or exceptions. It's being written as we speak. The future already knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Just now, myata said: So, pointing fingers is all you can do? At the time of possibly, existential challenge? That's some C-in-C speaking, right there? A winning strategy? It is FACT that the small minority of MAGA CULT HOUSE members are blocking the aid. Just now, myata said: And for the Republicans it's simple really: if the assistance is failed for no other cause but this mindless hostage game, every single name, in the House and Senate, will go on the list of those who walked away from their responsibility before the future. Every single one, no excuses or exceptions. It's being written as we speak. The future already knows. Far from it. You may like to lump them all together for blame, but that does not make it REALITY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, robosmith said: It is FACT that you won't get it until it hits you on your head. You just cannot see and get it that there can be things way more important, in the sense much more deep and far reaching consequences than political 'me no no me!' games. Maybe there is no other way. In the alternative reality, the majority of responsible Democrats would accept strengthened border security (makes sense) and the majority of responsible Republicans would support the only country holding the tyranny tide (necessary and critical). And with it, own future. Makes all the sense: only in the alternative, still sane universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 32 minutes ago, myata said: you won't get it until it hits you on your head. You just cannot see and get it that there can be things way more important, in the sense much more deep and far reaching consequences than political 'me no no me!' games. Maybe there is no other way. In the alternative reality, the majority of responsible Democrats would accept strengthened border security (makes sense) and the majority of responsible Republicans would support the only country holding the tyranny tide (necessary and critical). And with it, own future. Makes all the sense: only in the alternative, still sane universe. You're ASSUMING that Republicans actually want a solution to the border. Several are ON RECORD saying they don't want to hand a "win" to Biden. Maybe you just don't understand how an impending election distorts motives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people. I think that they were just used and abused by Zelenski and the Americans. There are thousands and thousands of Russian soldiers dead, ditto for Ukrainian soldiers, ditto for Ukrainian civilians, Ukrainian communities are flattened and those people who were neighbours and friends are now scattered & in mourning... For what? The Russians moved their border west a bit, Ukraine's not getting into NATO, and some American weapons manufacturers and their investors raked in heaps of cash... What a farce. I wonder how long Taiwan is gonna last now, knowing that America's war chest is depleted and their citizens are sick of war. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people. I think that they were just used and abused by Zelenski and the Americans. There are thousands and thousands of Russian soldiers dead, ditto for Ukrainian soldiers, ditto for Ukrainian civilians, Ukrainian communities are flattened and those people who were neighbours and friends are now scattered & in mourning... For what? The Russians moved their border west a bit, Ukraine's not getting into NATO, and some American weapons manufacturers and their investors raked in heaps of cash... What a farce. I wonder how long Taiwan is gonna last now, knowing that America's war chest is depleted and their citizens are sick of war. Sure. The VICTIMS of Putin's INVASION were "used and abused" by those DEFENDING the independence of their NATION. You are DELUSIONAL. Just wait until Putin comes for Canada. If Trump has dissolved NATO you'll be sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 9 hours ago, WestCanMan said: I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people. Just say I'm f@cked up, my brain is. Would make way more sense. 9 hours ago, robosmith said: Several are ON RECORD Several is the word for "most" the hundreds of them, right? It's quite astounding how partisanship distorts perception of the reality, regardless of the chosen side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 5 hours ago, myata said: Just say I'm f@cked up, my brain is. Would make way more sense. Several is the word for "most" the hundreds of them, right? It's quite astounding how partisanship distorts perception of the reality, regardless of the chosen side. Well this is what happens when you put your eggs in the wrong basket. Or like my pappy used to say, don't put your donkey in the wrong stables... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 (edited) 30 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Well this is what happens when you put your eggs in the wrong basket. No that's too general, let's figure it out, we can cannot we? So a brutal armed thug comes to your doorstep and demands to submit to his demands, let him have a third of your house just give it away and take your child as a hostage. What? Resisting and fighting for yours: is it "the wrong basket"? What would be the right one then? Let's be specific away from vague generalities, wouldn't your "pappy" live that? Edited January 13 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 15 minutes ago, myata said: No that's too general, let's figure it out, we can cannot we? So a brutal armed thug comes to your doorstep and demands to submit to his demands, let him have a third of your house just give it away and take your child as a hostage. What? Resisting and fighting for yours: is it "the wrong basket"? What would be the right one then? Let's be specific away from vague generalities, wouldn't your "pappy" live that? No, YOU believing the Americans is the wrong basket. Once a liar, always a liar. After seeing their shenanigans over the years I've come to know what to expect. This is not about fairness of justice fir anyone, other than what serves American interests. And once you get that, you will no longer get surprised or disappointed. As a wise man once said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... can't... get fooled again. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 (edited) 30 minutes ago, myata said: What would be the right one then? Let's be specific away from vague generalities, wouldn't your "pappy" live that? The right one is to know that war is wrong and the information given has been manipulated to fool us. The US leadership has its own agenda outside of democracy with everything to do with making money and having control. NOT telling the truth. NOT justice. It is not as basic as leaving a door open and letting robbers come in. It is a tangled weave of lies wrapped up in history of violence and deep resentment. The clash of superpowers full of intrigue and espionage, war on all fronts. The information they feed you is not the truth, at all. Edited January 13 by OftenWrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: The right one is to know that war is wrong and the information given has been manipulated to fool us. The US leadership has You know why you couldn't get past useless generalities, right? Because the moment you do that, you will see, yourself, an absolute absence of any basis: moral; logical; rational for your claims. Just try it, again: standing up to a brutal invader thug, is it "the wrong basket"? Yes or no answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 16 hours ago, robosmith said: Sure. The VICTIMS of Putin's INVASION were "used and abused" by those DEFENDING the independence of their NATION. You are DELUSIONAL. Just wait until Putin comes for Canada. If Trump has dissolved NATO you'll be sorry. Lol...ROFLMAO! Chalk up another check mark in the WRONG column for you Dummy. For a lot of you. Are you ever gonna learn that reality doesn't care about your feelings? This has always been inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 30 minutes ago, myata said: You know why you couldn't get past useless generalities, right? Because the moment you do that, you will see, yourself, an absolute absence of any basis: moral; logical; rational for your claims. Just try it, again: standing up to a brutal invader thug, is it "the wrong basket"? Yes or no answer. Oh pl-ease Mr. Mushmouth. Don't be such a simpleton. 1 hour ago, myata said: So a brutal armed thug comes to your doorstep and demands to submit to his demands, let him have a third of your house just give it away and take your child as a hostage This would be true...if we didn't have something we call "history". "History" tells us, loud and clear, that this house of yours had tenants in a third of your house and that you shat on them so much, that your tenant's big brother stepped in to put a stop to it. Your neighbors tried to help but, they were scared of reprisal from this big brother, so they gave you guns, but no man power. Thus, inevitably, the big brother took the portion of your house for your tenants. This outcome has always been inevitable. ALWAYS! It all just goes to prove the saying... "YA GITS WUT YA PAYS FER!" And that...my misguided colleague...is just the sad truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 26 minutes ago, myata said: You know why you couldn't get past useless generalities, right? Because the moment you do that, you will see, yourself, an absolute absence of any basis: moral; logical; rational for your claims. Just try it, again: standing up to a brutal invader thug, is it "the wrong basket"? Yes or no answer. Wrong question. Please clarify- which thug in this case... Putin/ Russia or Biden/USA. Because there are actually two. The answer is in front of your face. Your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 10 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Please clarify No you can't squeeze your way out of it. An armed brutal thug is on your doorstep. Resist or cower? What is the "wrong basket"? You call for help and what? Your neighbors do they come out to help or talk of wrong baskets? and then they come to them and for them, one by one. C'mon. The story is written and read for generations. Is it that hard for you, why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 (edited) 7 minutes ago, myata said: No you can't squeeze your way out of it. An armed brutal thug is on your doorstep. Resist or cower? What is the "wrong basket"? You call for help and what? Your neighbors do they come out to help or talk of wrong baskets? and then they come to them and for them, one by one. C'mon. The story is written and read for generations. Is it that hard for you, why? I'll tell you why. Because you insist on conveniently ignoring half the facts. Not only that but, you actually believed David could slay Goliath. Try dealing with reality. The entirety of reality. Not just that which makes your wife happy. Edited January 13 by Nationalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffypants Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 21 hours ago, robosmith said: You're ASSUMING that Republicans actually want a solution to the border. Several are ON RECORD saying they don't want to hand a "win" to Biden. Maybe you just don't understand how an impending election distorts motives. Hell they are trying to give him a win if anything, if they were trying to hinder him they would just release the aid. Border security would be a huge win for him and gives Biden cover when the crazy left who think we need to keep the border wide open come crying about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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