OftenWrong Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 20 hours ago, Perspektiv said: The intention of the joke should be to make people laugh. Not ensuring you don't offend people of a certain political alignment or group. Trans people are fair game, death and other no go subjects, if the intent is comedy. You may have touched on why he doesn't like it, or think it's funny. We tend to not like jokes that make fun of our political stance, or even, us in particular. Could it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 23 hours ago, Perspektiv said: 1. I don't understand why a political opinion is off limits in comedy. 2. The intention of the joke should be to make people laugh. Not ensuring you don't offend people of a certain political alignment or group. 3. Trans people are fair game, death and other no go subjects, if the intent is comedy. 4. Am an artist. A true artist will not be afraid to push the boundaries of their craft. Thats how you grow. Fear, gives you cookie cutter, bland and granola. Artists are activists at heart, so challenging the status quo comes with the territory. As a comedian, this means risky jokes that intended to make people laugh, but missed the mark. 5. Sorry, but Ricky Gervais and Bill Burr have hilarious sets on the trans community. 6. I love comedians that aren't afraid to make me uncomfortable to get a laugh. Norm McDonald included. 1. I most certainly did not say it was off limits. I'm saying that I don't engage with such entertainment to hear political things, as a solitary objective. 2. Agreed. But the intention should also not be to simply offend a group. 3. Sure but it's pretty hard to put groups in a joke and make it funny. How would I make a joke about Black people as a white person ? Chris Rock can do it but do you think I can just do his material and get laughs ? Comedy is a fine art. 4. Agreed. 5. Haven't seen it yet. 6. Norm was always funny. His album had some jokes about LGBTQ+ that were cringy and funny. I don't find Chapelle or Gervais funny anymore ... if you want to say I'm offended by them, then I guess that's you saying you know me better than I know myself. But I do like Norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 16 hours ago, Perspektiv said: I find it amusing. Sad, the ideology is being forced onto children and society as a whole. "Forced"... you are quite the master of hyperbole. I have two school aged kids and there is zero evidence of this being forced upon them. Yes, it appears in various shows on TV but we have this amazing thing called a remote which gives us the power to watch or not watch. Apparently, you do not possess such a device or do not know how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 4 hours ago, OftenWrong said: You may have touched on why he doesn't like it, or think it's funny. Bill Burr's jokes on the trans issue, are funnier in my opinion. Chapelle makes you smile and think. Burr roasts the living daylights out of them, and pokes fun at their faulty logic with unapologetic roasting and is only intent on making you cry with laughter. Or cry and run away if you can't handle it. If trans jokes don't make you laugh, don't see a set with a comedian known for making them. Just the entitlement behind the thought. "I don't think its funny, so the show must stop now!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, impartialobserver said: Forced Trans ideology, is teaching nonsense to kids. Schools that teach it, are pushing ideology onto children. You're right though. They have the right to change schools. What they teach is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 56 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Trans ideology, is teaching nonsense to kids. Schools that teach it, are pushing ideology onto children. You're right though. They have the right to change schools. What they teach is irrelevant. and your implied assumption that ALL schools teach it.. is simply incorrect. Another failed assumption is that trans folks are a new concept.. it is old news. It has simply came into focus as some seek to have them accepted and some do not. Lastly.. you imply that those few who do teach it ... spend a majority of their time teaching this one niche topic. That is beyond comical, I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: and your implied assumption that ALL schools teach it.. is simply incorrect. Another failed assumption is that trans folks are a new concept.. it is old news. It has simply came into focus as some seek to have them accepted and some do not. Lastly.. you imply that those few who do teach it ... spend a majority of their time teaching this one niche topic. That is beyond comical, I have to say. How about the statements are loaded with ambiguity which makes the statement difficult to respond to. "Ideology" - I mean why are we teaching ANY ideology to kids ?!? Of course if you try to drill down, you will find yourself mired in another minefield of definitions... with a lot of words loaded with implication but not meaning. But these people use words like "groomer" so as to derail the discussion from step 1. I would stay away from people who argue in bad faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: How about the statements are loaded with ambiguity which makes the statement difficult to respond to. "Ideology" - I mean why are we teaching ANY ideology to kids ?!? Of course if you try to drill down, you will find yourself mired in another minefield of definitions... with a lot of words loaded with implication but not meaning. But these people use words like "groomer" so as to derail the discussion from step 1. I would stay away from people who argue in bad faith. true.. they do argue in bad faith by using vague terminology that can't possibly be quantified. One instance of something must mean that it is occurring everywhere at every moment. That is a logical fallacy to say the least but on the internet.. there is no consequence for being nothing but a blowhard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 9 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: true.. they do argue in bad faith by using vague terminology that can't possibly be quantified. One instance of something must mean that it is occurring everywhere at every moment. That is a logical fallacy to say the least but on the internet.. there is no consequence for being nothing but a blowhard. Yes, when I ask about such anecdotes they often say "this is just ONE example". That's unclear at best, dishonest at worst. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Yes, when I ask about such anecdotes they often say "this is just ONE example". That's unclear at best, dishonest at worst. because one instance inevitably leads to a deluge. So why did the Detroit pistons recently break a record losing streak and then proceed to lose? they should have kept on winning by the former logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I most certainly did not say it was off limits. I'm saying that I don't engage with such entertainment to hear political things, as a solitary objective. So, off limits to you. 10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 2. Agreed. But the intention should also not be to simply offend a group. Trans jokes are deemed as off limits to some. They qualify as offensive for existing when you have a standard like that about humor. 10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 3. Sure but it's pretty hard to put groups in a joke and make it funny. Not really. I have yet to see a group that couldn't make a funny joke. 10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 5. Haven't seen it yet. You're welcome. Oh, and you can make an inoffensive trans joke while hitting the nail on the head. 10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: anymore ... if you want to say I'm offended by them Am going by your stating their "lecturing" you, vs simply going on about them simply not making you laugh. Everyone in this thread could see it was just a joke, but you. So it was just a hunch. Honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: But these people use words like "groomer" You're that guy who scolds the person in front of you at an 12 item checkout at a grocery, for being an item over. Literally going home feeling you made the world a better place o_O 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 On 1/2/2024 at 5:19 PM, Michael Hardner said: Two and a half minutes and what exactly is the punch line? It's that.... That's how trans people make me feel. I think you have to sort of be neutral on that topic in order to be objective about whether his story is funny or not. I don't have a political AXE to grind so I'm just looking for the funny. Oh please. You've been very pro trans for years here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 Regardless, his point that you have to keep staring at a man and pretend he's a woman is spot on. On 1/4/2024 at 3:26 PM, Michael Hardner said: But these people use words like "groomer" so as to derail the discussion from step 1. I would stay away from people who argue in bad faith. I seem to recall posting a long piece with the very words of those who came up with the idea of drag queens reading to children which completely supported the accusation of grooming. But I believe you've said before you don't like to read long pieces so maybe you didn't read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 10 hours ago, I am Groot said: I seem to recall posting a long piece with the very words of those who came up with the idea of drag queens reading to children which completely supported the accusation of grooming. I'm assuming he accused you of derailing the thread, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Dave Chapelle is what? A comedian or entertainer. So by default..consuming his product is a matter of choice? If you do not like it.. then do not watch it or listen to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, impartialobserver said: Dave Chapelle is what? A comedian or entertainer. So by default..consuming his product is a matter of choice? If you do not like it.. then do not watch it or listen to it. Trans controversies are boring and don't make me want to watch or diswatch entertainments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Just now, Michael Hardner said: Trans controversies are boring and don't make me want to watch or diswatch entertainments... I, for one, am so beyond tired of it. However, I know humanity and know that some simply need something to obsess about. They can never be satisfied or content without something to rail on about or hate.. WCM being the best example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 36 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: WCM being the best example. Women.. .changing to Men ? 🤔 What Chappelle is mocking ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 5 hours ago, impartialobserver said: So by default..consuming his product is a matter of choice? This is what I don't understand about those who don't like his brand of comedy. You can choose not to watch or consume it. Simple. Its just the entitlement behind you not finding it of good taste, and therefore it should be shut down because you're offended on the behalf of others, that is incredibly perplexing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: What Chappelle is mocking ? I thought you were a comedian. He's finding humor in the predicament of being male (or female), but feeling one was born in the wrong body. Like this is even possible. The social pressure behind him having to pretend around this person, when its blatantly obvious. But it's socially frowned upon to mention anything. Its just this giant elephant in the room, that nobody can mention. I find humor in this, too. If you don't, that's fine--but his shows routinely sell out, so clearly he has a massive audience for it. I personally find humor in every subject. From death, to whatever. If you get offended at this, you don't belong at any comedy show where the humor is dark. It's clearly not for you. He also pokes fun at the hypocrisy. Its considered vile to make a trans joke (or offend this community), but socially a black male can kill another in broad daylight, and nobody bats an eyelid about it. Its just the way it is. A rap artist can boast about this, and its art. A white record executive can profit off of this, and this is business. A female musical artist can twerk, and get liquor poured on her body, and this is a hot track. Men can literally rap about how useless she is, other than her cavities--put a hot beat, and people dance to it. If you're offended, you're hating. But if you offend a trans woman, this is repugnant. Subhuman. In Thailand, trans people co-exist peacefully. They make no illusions about it--they often call themselves ladyboys. They know what they are. I've been to Thailand. Some of these ladyboys are better looking than my wife. But I'm supposed to pretend there isn't a deep voice, adam's apple, overly chiseled jaw line, big man hands if approached by one? The reason they blend in, is because they don't try to drive their inner feelings down your throat. Chappelle put it best, regarding the black community, or any community. "Nobody in America gives a f*** how you feel inside". Life's unfair. Its s*****d on me, broke me down and forced me to pick myself back up. It sucks, but that's life. I don't believe anyone is entitled to special treatment. I certainly won't feel any sympathy, as none was felt for me when I was rock bottom. Someone can't handle life, then am sorry for them but the world doesn't stop spinning because of how one feels inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 24 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: This is what I don't understand about those who don't like his brand of comedy. You can choose not to watch or consume it. Simple. Its just the entitlement behind you not finding it of good taste, and therefore it should be shut down because you're offended on the behalf of others, that is incredibly perplexing to me. I am atheist and always will be. I do not want religious book stores to be shut down nor do I want to religious TV channels, music,books, etc. to done away with. I can live a fine life by opting to not read, listen, or ingest the content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, impartialobserver said: I am atheist and always will be. I do not want religious book stores to be shut down nor do I want to religious TV channels, music,books, etc. to done away with. I can live a fine life by opting to not read, listen, or ingest the content. Exactly. I don't understand this about woke culture today, where if you're offended by it--it must be shut down. Those who consume it must be shamed. I have no shame in my game. Chapelle comes to my neck of the woods, I'd be first in line for tickets. I appreciate his humor, so I would pay for a ticket. That's the power of business. Don't like a product--don't buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 9 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Don't like a product--don't buy. But but but... is not good enough. You're denying my right to virtue signal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 On 1/2/2024 at 3:27 PM, Perspektiv said: Of course, activists will try to shame and shut it down, but to me, this is comedic brilliance. You know the punchline is coming up, but he's a master of diversion. This was SPOT ON! Trans ideology is illusionary at best and delusional at worst. Chappelle highlighted it perfectly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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