Dave Chapelle Brilliantly Frames How Trans Ideology Feels Like for an Outsider

[Yakuda]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. My point is that the existence of the most reviled word in a dictionary subverts your point ie. " No dictionary would dare define the word, because they would be considered transphobic."  

2. You know.  You don't.  I am saying that the word doesn't fit for me somehow and asking why you think it does.  "It works for me" is an admission that you would rather use a misplaced word than... not I guess.  Which is fine.

3.  You can't define it, in the context of the word you are dying to use.  So it seems weird to me that you say it fits "perfectly".  

4.  Yes it is.  I disagree that your use of "ideology" in that context makes sense and you have said that you are not obliged to tell me why it does.  It's just perfect says you.  Alrighty, to each his own  

Now now.  If it were me I would retract my use of it.  That's why I was pressing for a deeper understanding of that word so I could defend its use.  But I'm not convinced.

Perspektiv did remind me that TERF isn't a good term to use though, so I learned something.

Transgender ideology should be recognized for what it is, a mental health disorder, possibly a new personality disorder. 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Yakuda said:

Transgender ideology should be recognized for what it is, a mental health disorder, possibly a new personality disorder. 

Except nobody has addressed my concerns with the word 'ideology'.  A single idea isn't an ideology.  If it were then we could talk about the "Gay Marriage is Wrong" ideology.  We don't, because it's an IDEA not an IDEOLOGY.

 

The issues we're having in defining it tell me that it's probably the wrong word to use.  I'd be MORE happy with the also-ill-fitting but at least more understandable "transgenderism" which I would define as "the believe that transgender people exist and deserve to be accommodated in society"

[Yakuda]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Except nobody has addressed my concerns with the word 'ideology'.  A single idea isn't an ideology.  If it were then we could talk about the "Gay Marriage is Wrong" ideology.  We don't, because it's an IDEA not an IDEOLOGY.

 

The issues we're having in defining it tell me that it's probably the wrong word to use.  I'd be MORE happy with the also-ill-fitting but at least more understandable "transgenderism" which I would define as "the believe that transgender people exist and deserve to be accommodated in society"

I gave you a list of far more than one idea that makes up this deluded ideology. So you neither didn't see it or you did and are ignoring it. It is beyond question that this is an ideology that will screw up generations of people and it's disgusting that so few  people have the courage to stand up to it. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

It is beyond question that this is an ideology

It most definitely is a social ideology.

He will try to play on specific wording, to deflect the fact that this group has managed to change policy, by literally pushing forth agendas based on how one feels, which is highly subjective vs fact which is rather irrefutable. Same reason doctors will do tests prior to jumping to conclusions.

When you're pushing genders being unlimited, you're literally pushing activism over science and biology.

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. I gave you a list of far more than one idea that makes up this deluded ideology. So you neither didn't see it or you did and are ignoring it.
2. It is beyond question that this is an ideology that will screw up generations of people
3. ...and it's disgusting that so few  people have the courage to stand up to it. 

1. I already explained why your ideas are just one idea with downstream implications of that idea.  I assume you didn't see that.
2. And yet reasonable people do question it.
3. You have to accept that those who disagree with you have their own morality.  Some of them think you're disgusting too, and I would advise them the same way.

[Yakuda]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

It most definitely is a social ideology.

He will try to play on specific wording, to deflect the fact that this group has managed to change policy, by literally pushing forth agendas based on how one feels, which is highly subjective vs fact which is rather irrefutable. Same reason doctors will do tests prior to jumping to conclusions.

When you're pushing genders being unlimited, you're literally pushing activism over science and biology.

I couldn't agree more. 

I'm brand new here but it's clear that poster is one of those people that plays with words and definitions. It's quite clear to any rational person that this ideology is destructive. 

[Guest]

There already is proof of thousands of lawsuits, proving that accommodating everyone without asking questions does more harm than good. Especially so with children.

I'm asexual. Went through phases where I claimed I was a girl as a child.

My mother mercifully didn't affirm how I felt, and rather insisted I was a boy.

In today's world, this is abusive somehow.

Had I been affirmed, it would have ignored me being surrounded by girls. My sexuality, which for many, make them gender nonconforming. 

I know tons of insanely feminine gay men, and insanely masculine gay women.

The vast majority of people just know. Meaning, most sort themselves out by adulthood.

I knew I was asexual before I got to that point, but was confused throughout my childhood.

Some would say the dramatic increase in trans kids in democratic run states or woke environments point to the lack of affirmation. 

I would disagree and see it blatantly shows that many who claim being trans, are doing it to fit in.

Just like just about every girl in my high school was bi, because that made you hot to most boys.

I literally don't know a single one who still is bi.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

I couldn't agree more. 

I'm brand new here but it's clear that poster is one of those people that plays with words and definitions. It's quite clear to any rational person that this ideology is destructive. 

Exactly. One should question even more when a voice is silenced and it being deemed as transphobic or dangerous or responsible for deaths, without providing evidence.

Comedy is a form of checks and balances in a free society. 

If you can't make fun of something in appropriate context, then you should truly question those very freedoms you are told that you have.

[Yakuda]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I already explained why your ideas are just one idea with downstream implications of that idea.  I assume you didn't see that.
2. And yet reasonable people do question it.
3. You have to accept that those who disagree with you have their own morality.  Some of them think you're disgusting too, and I would advise them the same way.

On second thought you may be right. This can't be an ideology anymore than the world view of a schizophrenic can be called an ideology. It's a sad manifestation of a troubled mind. Thank you for the clarity. 

Therein lies the problem, "their own morality". They also demand to live in their own reality. That's delusional.

Ive told you before I only care if 5 people think I'm disgusting. What mentally unstable people think doesnt make that list. 

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Exactly. One should question even more when a voice is silenced and it being deemed as transphobic or dangerous or responsible for deaths, without providing evidence.

Comedy is a form of checks and balances in a free society. 

If you can't make fun of something in appropriate context, then you should truly question those very freedoms you are told that you have.

Freedom is a dirty word these days. 

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. On second thought you may be right. This can't be an ideology anymore than the world view of a schizophrenic can be called an ideology. It's a sad manifestation of a troubled mind. Thank you for the clarity. 

2. Therein lies the problem, "their own morality". They also demand to live in their own reality. That's delusional.

3. Ive told you before I only care if 5 people think I'm disgusting. What mentally unstable people think doesnt make that list. 

4. Freedom is a dirty word these days. 

1. No problem
2. Well, every individual lives in their own morality AND their own reality.  Attempts to broad the void with another human being may require you to be prepare to engage politics !  
3. Then why do you expect others to care when you say that YOU are disgusted ?  Seems like a double standard ? 🤔
4. Especially freedom to think you're a woman...
 

[TreeBeard]

6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Technically people protested budweiser by not purchasing it.

Several Anheuser-Busch facilities received threats last week, a company spokesperson confirmed, following weeks of backlash against Bud Light because it sponsored two Instagram posts from a transgender woman.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/20/business/bud-light-threats/index.html
 

[Yakuda]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No problem
2. Well, every individual lives in their own morality AND their own reality.  Attempts to broad the void with another human being may require you to be prepare to engage politics !  
3. Then why do you expect others to care when you say that YOU are disgusted ?  Seems like a double standard ? 🤔
4. Especially freedom to think you're a woman...
 

2. If that's true then there his no valid reason to say what hitler did was improper. 

3. Where did I say I expect that? I will tell you what I think it's irrelevant if you care about it or not but you do, you keep replying. I cant make anyone care about anything.

Anyone is free to think they're a woman but it's delusional to believe they are an woman to based on onmy their thoughts and feelings. 

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. If that's true then there his no valid reason to say what hitler did was improper. 

2. Where did I say I expect that?

3. I will tell you what I think it's irrelevant if you care about it or not but you do, you keep replying.
 
4. I cant make anyone care about anything.

5. Anyone is free to think they're a woman ...

5. .. but it's delusional to believe they are an woman to based on onmy their thoughts and feelings. 

1. The statement was from part of this thread I wasn't involved with, but I think the word was 'immoral'.  "Improper" is slightly different but I would say you're making a general statement around the morality of "public company" in your audience right ?  I mean, otherwise you could speak positively about the morality of any act at all.
2. When you posted it, the assumption is that we would care what you think.
3. I do care.
4. Odd.  So then, you don't care what we think but you post your opinions on morality as though we do/should ?  How does that work ?
5.  Freud just shivered in his grave (see bolding)

[Michael Hardner]

53 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 I'm asexual. Went through phases where I claimed I was a girl as a child.

You have my sincere and deep sympathy.  I had no idea that you yourself are LGBTQ+ and the attendant pain and passage of time... All the best.

[Yakuda]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. The statement was from part of this thread I wasn't involved with, but I think the word was 'immoral'.  "Improper" is slightly different but I would say you're making a general statement around the morality of "public company" in your audience right ?  I mean, otherwise you could speak positively about the morality of any act at all.
2. When you posted it, the assumption is that we would care what you think.
3. I do care.
4. Odd.  So then, you don't care what we think but you post your opinions on morality as though we do/should ?  How does that work ?
5.  Freud just shivered in his grave (see bolding)

Irrelevant. If all morals are personal then there is no just reason to condemn hitler.

I'm not in charge of your assumptions 

Good for you 

I express my opinion. I don't control what you do with it. If you want to engage we'll engage. If not that doesnt stop me from stating my opinion. 

Freud LMBO another whacko

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. Irrelevant. If all morals are personal then there is no just reason to condemn hitler.

2. I'm not in charge of your assumptions 

3. Freud LMBO another whacko

1. I didn't say all morals are personal, I said that individuals have their own morality.  You can't claim monopoly on moral opinion.
2. Well, there is such a thing as 'common use' of language, communication etc.  If, on a bus, I started talking about extreme details of my personal life people would be reasonable to think that's odd.  Coincidentally, if you say that something is morally disgusting, simultaneously saying that you don't care what other people thing... well can you see why it seems like you have different sets of rules between what you broadcast to this board vs what you accept ?  It just seems so.  My take on things is that I do listen and take things in, that I *might* care if the information I hear affects me, and that I don't expect people to believe me... but I do hold them to be consistent.
3.  Conservatives like me should be well aware of the arc of Freud's influence though I admit I posted the reference as a joke.  That's what he adds to the public conversation these days anyway.

[Yakuda]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I didn't say all morals are personal, I said that individuals have their own morality.  You can't claim monopoly on moral opinion.
2. Well, there is such a thing as 'common use' of language, communication etc.  If, on a bus, I started talking about extreme details of my personal life people would be reasonable to think that's odd.  Coincidentally, if you say that something is morally disgusting, simultaneously saying that you don't care what other people thing... well can you see why it seems like you have different sets of rules between what you broadcast to this board vs what you accept ?  It just seems so.  My take on things is that I do listen and take things in, that I *might* care if the information I hear affects me, and that I don't expect people to believe me... but I do hold them to be consistent.
3.  Conservatives like me should be well aware of the arc of Freud's influence though I admit I posted the reference as a joke.  That's what he adds to the public conversation these days anyway.

So you're saying people have their own morality but morals arent personal? Explain 

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yakuda said:

So you're saying people have their own morality but morals arent personal? Explain 

 

I"m saying personal morality exists and that has to be considered but your statement that ALL morals are personal is incorrect.  If you are communicating with someone, each of you have a moral set.  There's also a community set of morals.

[Yakuda]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I"m saying personal morality exists and that has to be considered but your statement that ALL morals are personal is incorrect.  If you are communicating with someone, each of you have a moral set.  There's also a community set of morals.

So what if personal morality exists? Do they supercede a community set of morals? Do the community set of morals supercede the personal? Why? 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yakuda said:

So what if personal morality exists? Do they supercede a community set of morals? Do the community set of morals supercede the personal? Why? 

It goes back to you saying that you don't care what other people think, and yet also dictating morality.  It makes me think that you don't accept that others have morality, once you consider those two things together.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Several Anheuser-Busch facilities received threats last week

Then we are in fact comparing apples to apples. Both being wrong, in attempting to suppress free speech. 

If you don't like Bud being drunk by a trans woman, buy another brand.

So my point remains the same.

This is further than just businesses being business or consumers doing consumer things. Its the suppression of freedoms that should be questioned just as much as anyone trying to convince you that there are limitless genders.

3 hours ago, Yakuda said:

What mentally unstable people think doesnt make that list. 

I remember watching a seminar on YouTube with a bunch of far leftists talking about core far left issues.

One spoke, so they applauded. The speaker scolded the crowd. Apparently applause can offend those who are sensitive to sound. 

So they started wiggling their fingers on their raised hands.

It just went downhill from there. Nobody could come to a consensus about anything. 

They literally blew over half an hour just stressing out about whether everyone was safe and okay.

Some would say that is kindness.

I feel we are totally f***ed if any super power went to war with us.

This is the group who took what is perfectly acceptable medically, gender dysphoria and turned it into a caricature.

IE a woman with "he/him" on her name tag serving you at Starbucks.

Worse even, those who change gender based on their moods.

Fight with your wife, and next thing his ass is divorcing you. O_o

[Yakuda]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

It goes back to you saying that you don't care what other people think, and yet also dictating morality.  It makes me think that you don't accept that others have morality, once you consider those two things together.

Why won't you answer my questions? 

[Yakuda]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Then we are in fact comparing apples to apples. Both being wrong, in attempting to suppress free speech. 

If you don't like Bud being drunk by a trans woman, buy another brand.

So my point remains the same.

This is further than just businesses being business or consumers doing consumer things. Its the suppression of freedoms that should be questioned just as much as anyone trying to convince you that there are limitless genders.

I remember watching a seminar on YouTube with a bunch of far leftists talking about core far left issues.

One spoke, so they applauded. The speaker scolded the crowd. Apparently applause can offend those who are sensitive to sound. 

So they started wiggling their fingers on their raised hands.

It just went downhill from there. Nobody could come to a consensus about anything. 

They literally blew over half an hour just stressing out about whether everyone was safe and okay.

Some would say that is kindness.

I feel we are totally f***ed if any super power went to war with us.

This is the group who took what is perfectly acceptable medically, gender dysphoria and turned it into a caricature.

IE a woman with "he/him" on her name tag serving you at Starbucks.

Worse even, those who change gender based on their moods.

Fight with your wife, and next thing his ass is divorcing you. O_o

Ive often said that what we are seeing is people living too long under a peace for which they paid no price. They think things are owed to them simply because they exist. 

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Why won't you answer my questions? 

Sorry - which one ?  I missed it.   Ah I see now... 

" Do they supercede a community set of morals? Do the community set of morals supercede the personal? Why? "

No of course not.  I answered what the matter was in the last post.

Edited January 17, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

…in attempting to suppress free speech. 

What violent threats were venues receiving if they chose to host Chapelle?