August1991 Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 NATO was created to defend ourselves against the Soviets, Stalin, the Communists. Since 1991, people are free to travel. Young people understand this. They know that NATO no longer has any purpose. In 1967, France left NATO. Canada should do the same now. The world must change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, August1991 said: NATO was created to defend ourselves against the Soviets, Stalin, the Communists. Since 1991, people are free to travel. Young people understand this. They know that NATO no longer has any purpose. In 1967, France left NATO. Canada should do the same now. The world must change. I guess young people are not aware or the threat Putin poses?? France still participates in NATO "Many people think that French President Charles de Gaulle took his country out of NATO in 1966 when he demanded that all military headquarters and installations not under French command depart French territory by 1967, but this is not the case. What France did was withdraw from NATO's integrated military command structure – thus French personnel were no longer assigned to the staffs of headquarters in the NATO command structure and French units were not placed under NATO command, but France remained an active member of the Alliance itself and French personnel continued to serve at NATO's political headquarters in Brussels as well as in liaison offices at the other military headquarters. " https://shape.nato.int/page214871012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suds Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 4 hours ago, August1991 said: NATO was created to defend ourselves against the Soviets, Stalin, the Communists. Since 1991, people are free to travel. Young people understand this. They know that NATO no longer has any purpose. In 1967, France left NATO. Canada should do the same now. The world must change. Is that you Vladimir? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, August1991 said: NATO was created to defend ourselves against the Soviets, Stalin, the Communists. Since 1991, people are free to travel. Young people understand this. They know that NATO no longer has any purpose. In 1967, France left NATO. Canada should do the same now. The world must change. Not sure why your hung up on this topic...you seem to bring it up every occasion you can....regardless of why NATO was put into play, nothing has really changed, The Russians still pose a threat to Europe, NATO command has deemed that the Russian threat has diminished slightly, China is now the main threat, which is why you see changes being made to ground forces, and naval forces.... with mother Russia taken second place...Still a major threat regardless of what is happening in Ukraine...NATO forces are the lowest they have ever been in the last 30 years...and it is Russia that has spurred all the latest spending of NATO countries scrambling to get caught up... I think you'll find France rejoined NATO in it's military capabilities only...it does not participated in decision making abilities but it does send troops into NATO conflicts... Your worlds may of changed, our world is still the same only some players have shifted around...leaving NATO would not have any benefits to Canada or our economy, i mean we are part of the club but do not respect any of the rules...were free loaders 99 % of the time...that part is what has changed...from doing our part to doing barely anything. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaétan Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Canada should leave NATO because its countries are more corrupt than ever and they support any war for the sole purpose of selling weapons, no matter if people die. We can't trust Trudeau or Poilievre because they support the genocide of the Palestinians out of love for the Jews' money, they're two hypocrites who will tell us they'll give us money to get elected but never vote for them because you'll just vote for the devil. The runners for the US election are just two criminals and we can't support any of them, they both want to be elected to buy their freedom from the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 On 1/2/2024 at 9:55 AM, ExFlyer said: I guess young people are not aware or the threat Putin poses?? He isn't young and he doesn't want to be aware. Close eyes bury the head in the sand and the problem goes away, right? Also Iran, North Korea, China after Hong Kong and eyeing Taiwan and any number of aspiring dictators to whom Putin promised nukes in exchange for joining his club of dictator buddies. Unarmed, divided, weak and rich: is there a better strategy to communicate with, like in: attract attention with a big red rag, of an aggressive armed bandit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 On 1/2/2024 at 9:55 AM, ExFlyer said: I guess young people are not aware or the threat Putin poses? I remember the Soviet Union and Communism. Marxism. In comparison, Russia and Putin are no threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 On 1/2/2024 at 1:58 PM, Army Guy said: ... The Russians still pose a threat to Europe, NATO command has deemed that the Russian threat has diminished slightly, China is now the main threat, which is why you see changes being made to ground forces, and naval forces.... .... Disagree strongly. The Russians/Soviets do not pose a threat. In 1991, America/Reagan won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 (edited) On 1/2/2024 at 1:58 PM, Army Guy said: Not sure why your hung up on this topic...you seem to bring it up every occasion you can....regardless of why NATO was put into play, nothing has really changed, The Russians still pose a threat to Europe... Disagree. Russians (mixed with Marxist/Communism nonsense) possibly posed a problem for the world in the past. Nowadays, Reagan won. The Berlin Wall is no more. We no longer need NATO. Edited April 6 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 Note to moderators: Move my OP to a different forum topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 21 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: " you may not be interested in the dialectic, but the dialectic is interested in you " ~ Leon Trotsky & Co. Dougie93, you are fortunate to live in a world where you can post such nonsense. I remember a world where it was impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 (edited) On 1/2/2024 at 5:01 AM, August1991 said: NATO was created to defend ourselves against the Soviets, Stalin, the Communists. Since 1991, people are free to travel. Young people understand this. They know that NATO no longer has any purpose. In 1967, France left NATO. Canada should do the same now. The world must change. France rejoined NATO in 2009. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_190458.htm https://www.politico.eu/article/france-will-reach-nato-defense-spending-target-in-2024/ Edited April 6 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 On 4/6/2024 at 12:30 AM, August1991 said: Disagree strongly. The Russians/Soviets do not pose a threat. In 1991, America/Reagan won. Based on what evidence, it seems the military chain of command of NATO are more than convinced that Russia still remains a treat, a few NATO countries have or started to think about conscription, Sweden's alert stages are above the Normal NATO levels due to Russian threats and actions. Perhaps the only person in the world that thinks the Russians are done and no longer a threat, which is why i'm curious what do you know that NATO experts don't? Just becasue the wall came down changed nothing, Russia pulled back, most of their allieds became ours , but Russia is still a threat...don't let Ukraine cloud you judgement... NATO is also being used to confront China, the alliance has expanded and is not just in Europe any more, it is in the middle east, And pacific... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 On 4/6/2024 at 12:43 AM, August1991 said: Disagree. Russians (mixed with Marxist/Communism nonsense) possibly posed a problem for the world in the past. Nowadays, Reagan won. The Berlin Wall is no more. We no longer need NATO. You can disagree, but i'm not sure anyone here will agree with you, maybe you can convince some of us with some hard evidence. But in the real world is telling a much different story...the only that seems to agree with you is justin, not really a guy of any knowledge on the topic...Explain what the world is going to do without NATO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaétan Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 (edited) Those who go to bars and show off their big muscles are the most likely to get knocked out, so the more muscle NATO gets, the more likely we are to get attacked, some stupid people think it is the opposite but these people are not in the real world. Currently NATO member countries are persecuting citizens of Russian origin as Ukraine wanted to do because they think they are strong but I do not want to defend injustice, they should organize themselves with their problems and don't come and ask to be defended. Edited April 7 by Gaétan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted April 9 Report Share Posted April 9 On 4/7/2024 at 3:57 AM, Gaétan said: Those who go to bars and show off their big muscles are the most likely to get knocked out, so the more muscle NATO gets, the more likely we are to get attacked, some stupid people think it is the opposite but these people are not in the real world. Currently NATO member countries are persecuting citizens of Russian origin as Ukraine wanted to do because they think they are strong but I do not want to defend injustice, they should organize themselves with their problems and don't come and ask to be defended. A strong NATO is the reason Europe has had the longest period of peace in its history. Until Putin attacked a non member of NATO, that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venandi Posted April 9 Report Share Posted April 9 (edited) On 4/7/2024 at 7:57 AM, Gaétan said: ....so the more muscle NATO gets, the more likely we are to get attacked, some stupid people think it is the opposite but these people are not in the real world. It would be a simple matter to test your theory on a smaller scale, we could do it right here at home. Don't just defund the police, disarm them completely, no gun, taser, baton or pepper spray. Instead of having a strong department with a variety of force escalation options available (let's call it muscle) to deter those elements of society aligned against us, we'll simply appeal to the good nature of criminals and ask them to stop murdering, raping and robbing. In an effort to mirror the existing threat and current funding issues faced by NATO forces, I recommend conducting our experiment in an urban area with an undermanned / underfunded police force... let's say Toronto. Any predictions before we get started? Edited April 9 by Venandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 (edited) On 4/7/2024 at 6:57 AM, Gaétan said: Those who go to bars and show off their big muscles are the most likely to get knocked out, so the more muscle NATO gets, the more likely we are to get attacked, some stupid people think it is the opposite but these people are not in the real world. Currently NATO member countries are persecuting citizens of Russian origin as Ukraine wanted to do because they think they are strong but I do not want to defend injustice, they should organize themselves with their problems and don't come and ask to be defended. This is pre-1914 thinking. "Strong is best. The war will be short. We'll win." I strongly disagree. Peace? After 1815 and after 1945, we had a structure of peace. ==== In 1991, America won the Cold War. Like after 1815, we now need a new multipolar arrangement. Edited April 10 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 On 4/7/2024 at 12:07 AM, Army Guy said: Based on what evidence, it seems the military chain of command of NATO are more than convinced that Russia still remains a treat, a few NATO countries have or started to think about conscription, Sweden's alert stages are above the Normal NATO levels due to Russian threats and actions. Perhaps the only person in the world that thinks the Russians are done and no longer a threat, which is why i'm curious what do you know that NATO experts don't? Just becasue the wall came down changed nothing, Russia pulled back, most of their allieds became ours , but Russia is still a threat...don't let Ukraine cloud you judgement... NATO is also being used to confront China, the alliance has expanded and is not just in Europe any more, it is in the middle east, And pacific... Army Guy, You ask good questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 20 hours ago, Aristides said: A strong NATO is the reason Europe has had the longest period of peace in its history. Until Putin attacked a non member of NATO, that is. Disagree very, very strongly. After 1815, Europe avoided war for a century because of a structure of peace. In summer 1914, this structure collapsed. I fear that at present, our world elites are doing the same as in summer 1914. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 15 hours ago, Venandi said: It would be a simple matter to test your theory on a smaller scale, we could do it right here at home. Don't just defund the police, disarm them completely, no gun, taser, baton or pepper spray .... I have always wondered why Truman approved dropping two bombs. Heck, he passed a note to Stalin at Potsdam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 4 hours ago, August1991 said: Disagree very, very strongly. After 1815, Europe avoided war for a century because of a structure of peace. In summer 1914, this structure collapsed. I fear that at present, our world elites are doing the same as in summer 1914. No they didn’t. There was just a vacuum between the fall of Napoleon and the rise of Prussia and a united Germany. Crimean War. Prussian Austria war, Franco Prussian War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 As Trudeau or Kissinger would say, there was a structure of peace from 1815 to 1914. Counterweights. Since 1991, Reagan won. I fear that this Ukrainian War is like one of those Balkan Wars before August 1914. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 On 4/7/2024 at 12:07 AM, Army Guy said: Just becasue the wall came down changed nothing,.... NATO is also being used to confront China..... 1. WTF? No wall, we win, the Soviet Union is no more, but we still need NATO... 2. WTF? NATO is used to confront China? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 10 Author Report Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Aristides said: No they didn’t. There was just a vacuum between the fall of Napoleon and the rise of Prussia and a united Germany. Crimean War. Prussian Austria war, Franco Prussian War. Every "war" you note was brief. The Franco-Prussian War in 1870 lasted for five weeks. An elite -older people, Russian, German- thought that a war in August 1914 would last for several months at most. No one in the elite, rich of civilised Europe of 1912 thought that any war would change their lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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