What if Israeli leaders and intel knew about the attack in advance and let it succeed in order to quash Netanyahu's legal problems, ensure his plan to destroy the supreme court and gain an excuse to wipe out Hamas?.

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Only if recognition by the UN is required to be a "country."

 

 

wellllllll - i think there's more to it than that. They're not really able to function as an autonomous entity really are they? A country would have to be able to provide for it's own needs like any other country and i'm not sure they could.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Only if recognition by the UN is required to be a "country."

 

 

But it has never been an independent country with its own government. 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

But it has never been an independent country with its own government. 

Then neither was Israel, From Nat Geo 1947 image:

 

"Special committee on Palestine"

 

[NYLefty]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:03 AM, WestCanMan said:

This is probably the only intelligent thing that you've ever said. 

The part about "Netanyahu's legal issues" and "the supreme court" is just leftard BS. You're just being someone's stooge right now. 

 

I don't think that there's even a 1% chance that Hamas pulled of an attack of that magnitude without the Israelis being aware that it was happening. 

If I had to bet I'd say that they wanted this excuse for war against Hamas, even the part about "women and children being dragged into underground tunnels to be used as meat-shields for their own soldiers and weapons". 

It's great PR, right? One of the most critical elements of any successful military campaign is evidence of the enemy's big, evil fangs. 

Was it warranted?

Yup: their enemy actually does have those fangs. 1,600 years of history tells us that exact thing. 

If Israel doesn't let Hamas show the world exactly how evil they are, it's just a matter of time before the Israelis face an extinction-level event. And TBH, I think they probably still will anyways. 

I bet that at least 100M islamists would take part in a genocide against Israel if they thought they had a chance of winning, 400M islamists would cheer for it, another 700M people would silently get great satisfaction from it, and in the end, 99% of them would be quite comfortable having peaceful relations with the islamic state that emerges from the ashes - on day 1. They will consider the new guys "way better than the Israelis". 

Even in Canada Imams feel like they can openly talk about genocide against Israelis. That's weird. No one else in Canada talks about genocide like it's a great thing, unless maybe it's the LPOC talking about the unvaxed. 

What is it with Reichwingnuts just having to jump on any and all conspiracy theory trains???

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, NYLefty said:

What is it with Reichwingnuts just having to jump on any and all conspiracy theory trains???

Sure, it's the right who does that Cough*russiancollusion*Cough  

Actually there's about 10 i could name just with trump alone

And..... you realize it was a hard left winger who PROPOSED this conspiracy in the first place right, comrade? 

Keep lookin' classy there big guy  

[NYLefty]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sure, it's the right who does that Cough*russiancollusion*Cough  

Actually there's about 10 i could name just with trump alone

And..... you realize it was a hard left winger who PROPOSED this conspiracy in the first place right, comrade? 

Keep lookin' classy there big guy  

I'm not saying lefties aren't prone to an occasional conspiracy fable. But when it comes to Trump he's actually been charged with "Conspiracy" by the Justice Dept. No gray area there

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, NYLefty said:

I'm not saying lefties aren't prone to an occasional conspiracy fable. But when it comes to Trump he's actually been charged with "Conspiracy" by the Justice Dept. No gray area there

Was he charged with "collusion"?

Did any collusion-related criminal charges come out of the collusion with hunt? 

Yes: the FBI was found guilty of committing crimes. Kevin Clinesmith took the fall. But that's it. The FBI were the only actual criminals in the Russian collusion show trial. 

Trump was 'charged' with calling a ho a loony for being a ho and a loony. 

Did you believe the Jussie story?

Did you believe the Sandman story?

Did you somehow know that HCQ KILLS PEOPLE on day 1, and that Ivermectin is just horse-dewormer on day 1, and that the vax was going to be safe and effective before it ever came out? Did you believe that the vax was so effective that everyone should be forced to take it, after there were already thousands of dead multi-vaxers?

You're the poster boy for "stooge" NYL. If CNN's monkeys type it, you believe it, period. 

[Rebound]

29 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Was he charged with "collusion"?

Did any collusion-related criminal charges come out of the collusion with hunt? 

Yes: the FBI was found guilty of committing crimes. Kevin Clinesmith took the fall. But that's it. The FBI were the only actual criminals in the Russian collusion show trial. 

Trump was 'charged' with calling a ho a loony for being a ho and a loony. 

Did you believe the Jussie story?

Did you believe the Sandman story?

Did you somehow know that HCQ KILLS PEOPLE on day 1, and that Ivermectin is just horse-dewormer on day 1, and that the vax was going to be safe and effective before it ever came out? Did you believe that the vax was so effective that everyone should be forced to take it, after there were already thousands of dead multi-vaxers?

You're the poster boy for "stooge" NYL. If CNN's monkeys type it, you believe it, period. 

Donald Trump is going to go to prison.  

[Deluge]

21 hours ago, robosmith said:

More likely that Palestinians want to return to the land their ancestors lived on for many hundreds of years before the Zionists drove the out with terrorism in 1948.

The Jews have history there too. And Hamas is hardly the group to lower justice on anybody - they are rapists and murderers. 

[Rebound]

22 hours ago, robosmith said:

More likely that Palestinians want to return to the land their ancestors lived on for many hundreds of years before the Zionists drove the out with terrorism in 1948.

Rob, if you look at maps of the Middle East and all of Africa before and after WW II, you’ll see that the borders changed everywhere.  And the people who drew these borders didn’t know everything; they didn’t know which tribe lived where, what their concepts of property ownership were, who owned what.  They just drew borders.  Today, those people can fight wars all they want or they can go forward with their lives.  
 

A kid gets born in Manhattan and wants to live in the land of his birth, but if he doesn’t get an advanced graduate degree, he’s not going to be able to afford it. Should he take hostages and blow shlt up? 
 

My real point is this: What has happened is done. We have the world we have. Eight million nuclear-weaponized Jews are not going to pack their bags and leave Israel, nor will they share a democratic vote with a population who’s goal is to vote for them to get kicked out of their nation. We’ve got to think like grownups here and accept what is and is not possible. 

[WestCanMan]

22 hours ago, robosmith said:

More likely that Palestinians want to return to the land their ancestors lived on for many hundreds of years before the Zionists drove the out with terrorism in 1948.

Your historical knowledge is as weak as you are stupid. 

[Rebound]

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Your historical knowledge is as weak as you are stupid. 

No, what he’s saying is not untrue, it’s just not, in my opinion, a realistic approach to solving the problem. 

[WestCanMan]

56 minutes ago, Deluge said:

The Jews have history there too. And Hamas is hardly the group to lower justice on anybody - they are rapists and murderers. 

The Jews actually had as much more history in Israel than the muslims had in Pakistan when it was formed at almost the exact same time (8 months apart). 

The only difference is that the pakistanis publicly executed people by hanging them, burning them alive, etc.

The Pakistanis killed as many as 2m people in a massive genocide. The Israelis never committed any genocides. 

The Pakistanis committed another genocide in 1971, killing another 3M people.

None of the ME countries have any problem with Pakistan. They don't attack them, they don't support terrorist attacks them, nothing. They have full, normal diplomatic relations with Pakistan and treat them as well as any other country. 

People like @robosmith have no problem with Pakistan. People like robo are stupid. 

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, Rebound said:

No, what he’s saying is not untrue, it’s just not, in my opinion, a realistic approach to solving the problem. 

It's a bad mashup of things that are partially true, and it's completely devoid of every shred of historical context necessary to understand the problem there.

The problem there is nothing more than islamic religious bigotry, 1,000%. 

[Rebound]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's a bad mashup of things that are partially true, and it's completely devoid of every shred of historical context necessary to understand the problem there.

The problem there is nothing more than islamic religious bigotry, 1,000%. 

Would you agree, then, that religion is the opiate of the masses?

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Would you agree, then, that religion is the opiate of the masses?

I'd agree that the masses need an opiate, and when it's not religion it's often something worse, like CNN.

Islam is a huge problem but we're supposed to pretend that it doesn't exist, as if they're same as everyone else. They're not. On average, they're much worse by far. 

Sure, we all know one really nice guy who's a muslim, but none of us know any other group that cheers when innocent people are burned alive or when kids are blown up at an Ariana Grande concert. 

[robosmith]

32 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Rob, if you look at maps of the Middle East and all of Africa before and after WW II, you’ll see that the borders changed everywhere.  And the people who drew these borders didn’t know everything; they didn’t know which tribe lived where, what their concepts of property ownership were, who owned what.  They just drew borders.  Today, those people can fight wars all they want or they can go forward with their lives.  
 

A kid gets born in Manhattan and wants to live in the land of his birth, but if he doesn’t get an advanced graduate degree, he’s not going to be able to afford it. Should he take hostages and blow shlt up? 

If his parents owned property, he will likely be able to afford to stay there by renting the property out or just paying the RE taxes on it. If not, he could sell it and make enough to live almost anywhere else.

32 minutes ago, Rebound said:

My real point is this: What has happened is done. We have the world we have. Eight million nuclear-weaponized Jews are not going to pack their bags and leave Israel, nor will they share a democratic vote with a population who’s goal is to vote for them to get kicked out of their nation. We’ve got to think like grownups here and accept what is and is not possible. 

There is more that is possible than ^this false dichotomy. Just saying "we have the (unjust) world we have," is not a convincing argument to those who have nothing left to lose, when those to stole from them have a lot to lose.

 

[robosmith]

38 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Your historical knowledge is as weak as you are stupid. 

Your current AND historical "knowledge" has been repeatedly proven FALSE.

Like your recent claim that walls are permanent and effective obstacles.

Hamas just made a mockery of that claim by blowing 30+ holes in walls and walking/driving right through and over.

Both you, and Israelis were proven naive with disastrous results.

[robosmith]

30 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The Jews actually had as much more history in Israel than the muslims had in Pakistan when it was formed at almost the exact same time (8 months apart). 

The only difference is that the pakistanis publicly executed people by hanging them, burning them alive, etc.

The Pakistanis killed as many as 2m people in a massive genocide. The Israelis never committed any genocides. 

The Pakistanis committed another genocide in 1971, killing another 3M people.

None of the ME countries have any problem with Pakistan. They don't attack them, they don't support terrorist attacks them, nothing. They have full, normal diplomatic relations with Pakistan and treat them as well as any other country. 

People like @robosmith have no problem with Pakistan. People like robo are stupid. 

You don't get to determine what I "have no problem with," and your gratuitous claims make you the stupid person here.

You don't even know about Netanyahu's legal problems and his attempts to dismantle the Israeli supreme court. LMAO

30 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's a bad mashup of things that are partially true, and it's completely devoid of every shred of historical context necessary to understand the problem there.

The problem there is nothing more than islamic religious bigotry, 1,000%. 

Your attempt to distill "the problem" into simple minded pablum makes you look even more stupid.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Organizations adapt. Hamas absorbed their own previous failings with informers and kept the big picture knowledge of this operation among as few as possible. Most of those involved would have had no idea what they were training for or when. They also went to great pains to portray a passive posture to the Israelis, giving them the impression they weren’t in a position to launch a large assault. As with 9/11, there’s no need to propose a bizarre conspiracy to explain an intelligence failure against a resourceful enemy with nothing else to think about. The IRA put it this way after the Brighton bombing that almost killed Margaret Thatcher:  “You have to be lucky all the time. We only have to be lucky once.” 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[robosmith]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I'd agree that the masses need an opiate, and when it's not religion it's often something worse, like CNN.

Islam is a huge problem but we're supposed to pretend that it doesn't exist, as if they're same as everyone else. They're not. On average, they're much worse by far. 

Sure, we all know one really nice guy who's a muslim, but none of us know any other group that cheers when innocent people are burned alive or when kids are blown up at an Ariana Grande concert. 

Apparently you've not heard about neo-Nazis or racists trying to start race wars. ?

Edited October 10, 2023 by robosmith

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Organizations adapt. Hamas absorbed their own previous failings with informers and kept the big picture knowledge of this operation among as few as possible. Most of those involved would have had no idea what they were training for or when. They also went to great pains to portray a passive posture to the Israelis, giving them the impression they weren’t in a position to launch a large assault. As with 9/11, there’s no need to propose a bizarre conspiracy to explain an intelligence failure. 

Actually the 9/11 attackers were a group of ~20, which made keeping their plans secret far easier than the thousands of Hamas involved in this recent attack.

[SpankyMcFarland]

9 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Actually the 9/11 attackers were a group of ~20, which made keeping their plans secret far easier than the thousands of Hamas involved in this recent attack.

Again, Hamas understand this. They’re not stupid. They know Israel has compromised thousands of Gazans one way or another. Apparently, many of the Hamas political leadership were not informed of these plans until they were happening. Nobody is fully trustworthy. 

Obviously, the 9/11 hijackers were supported by a much larger number of people than that abroad and quite a few in the US as well. Surprise attacks of this type have happened throughout history. 
 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, NYLefty said:

I'm not saying lefties aren't prone to an occasional conspiracy fable.

They basically base their entire viewpoint on it.

Quote

But when it comes to Trump he's actually been charged with "Conspiracy" by the Justice Dept. No gray area there

Yeah - means something a little different in that context

[robosmith]

4 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Again, Hamas understand this. They’re not stupid. They know Israel has compromised thousands of Gazans one way or another. Apparently, many of the Hamas political leadership were not informed of these plans until they were happening. 

Obviously, the 9/11 hijackers were supported by a much larger number of people than that abroad and quite a few in the US as well. Surprise attacks of this type have happened throughout history. 

They may have received "support" from "a much larger number," but very few knew the actual plan details.