Hamas Attacks Israel

[CdnFox]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:10 PM, Iceni warrior said:

''an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind''

That's why you want to go with a head for an eye.  If you take their head they can't come back for your other eye after they poked you the first time.

Always pay them back 100 fold - this 1 for 1 thing is garbage.

[CdnFox]

Here we go. It's about to get real.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/now-is-time-war-says-israels-military-chief-2023-10-12/

Israel calls for all civilians to leave Gaza City

• LATEST DEVELOPMENTS:
• Israel calls for evacuation of all civilians of Gaza City relocated south
• UN warns of "devastating humanitarian consequences"
• Israeli UN envoy says UN response "shameful"
• Hamas says relocation warning in fake propaganda

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Here we go. It's about to get real.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/now-is-time-war-says-israels-military-chief-2023-10-12/

Israel calls for all civilians to leave Gaza City

• LATEST DEVELOPMENTS:
• Israel calls for evacuation of all civilians of Gaza City relocated south
• UN warns of "devastating humanitarian consequences"
• Israeli UN envoy says UN response "shameful"
• Hamas says relocation warning in fake propaganda

Meh...all this pussyfooting around for the morality of taking out a bunch of blood thirsty terrorists who killed civilians...including bullet riddled babies and old lady's dragged down the road to death.

Carpet bomb Gaza and be done with it. A protracted urban war will settle nothing.

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Here we go. It's about to get real.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/now-is-time-war-says-israels-military-chief-2023-10-12/

Israel calls for all civilians to leave Gaza City

• LATEST DEVELOPMENTS:
• Israel calls for evacuation of all civilians of Gaza City relocated south
• UN warns of "devastating humanitarian consequences"
• Israeli UN envoy says UN response "shameful"
• Hamas says relocation warning in fake propaganda

This is ridiculous and part of Israeli propaganda. THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO GO. Israel have blocked all ways out.  Lock all the doors in a room with children in it and set fire to the room and a few seconds before announce to them to get out soon because you plan to set fire to it!!!!!

Edited October 13, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Meh...all this pussyfooting around for the morality of taking out a bunch of blood thirsty terrorists who killed civilians...including bullet riddled babies and old lady's dragged down the road to death.

Carpet bomb Gaza and be done with it. A protracted urban war will settle nothing.

You are taken by Israeli propaganda. 

Yes carpet bomb and murder over 2 million civilian's 40 percent of them children just because a thousand terrorists among them killed Israelis. With all those likely fake pictures of rapes and beheadings I don't blame you to be so full of hate for defenseless women and children to blown up into pieces. Even if true then kill the terrorist bastards not defenseless people. ISRAEL IS COMMITTING WAR CRIMES but the world is blinded by hate.

Edited October 13, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[cannuck]

14 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO GO. Israel have blocked all ways. 

The international response will be interesting.

Putin happier than pig in shit to see Yanks attention split.  Parallel is Crimea was once Russian, given up by Nicki (with many objections from within), taken back by Vlad.   Xi probably as confused with how this plays out vis-a-vis his designs on Taiwan.  The little Tur....uh....TRUdo too stupid to realize we are in same boat with indigenous Canadians.

So do we get pissed off with Rome, the Slimey Limeys (who, as one might recall were authors of both Canada and Palestine's current problems), the Zionists or the Paleos???

What Israel is doing now is pretty much what Russia did to Ukraine, but a bit more of a stretch to think a fully functioning democracy (albeit a very corrupt one - but show me one that isn't) is fair game for a state that no longer exists?  Even UK must be thinking back to Ireland's history of occupation.

How far back do we look to decide what is and is not a valid claim to territory?  1948 is not very far.

[herbie]

They have nowhere to go because EGYPT closed it's border out of Gaza too. Are you f*cking stupid enough to believe Israel is going to allow them in less than a week after Hamas attacked them?

You're more concerned about Palestinians than the murderous Hamas chickenshits that are using the people they claim to represent as human shields.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

This is ridiculous and part of Israeli propaganda. THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO GO. Israel have blocked all ways out.  Lock all the doors in a room with children in it and set fire to the room and a few seconds before announce to them to get out soon because you plan to set fire to it!!!!!

They have the sothern half.  That's where isreal is telling them to go.

[BeaverFever]

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap

Storming into Gaza will fulfill Hamas’s wish.
 

Hamas’s leaders and their Iranian backers have a conscious strategy. Like almost all other acts of spectacularly bloodthirsty terrorism, Hamas’s assault on southern Israel was designed to provoke an emotional and equally or even more outrageous response by the targeted society. Hamas and Iran are attempting to goad the Israelis into Gaza for a prolonged confrontation—which is to say that the intended effect is precisely the ground assault Israel is now preparing in order to root out and destroy Hamas as an organization, kill its cadres and leadership, and destroy as much of its infrastructure and equipment as possible.

Hamas surely would not have meticulously planned its audacious assault without also extensively planning a response to the hoped-for Israeli counterattack on the ground. The Israeli military will likely encounter a determined insurgency in Gaza. After all, Israel has had control of the land strip from the outside, but not on the inside. Israeli dominion over Gaza’s coastal waters, airspace, electromagnetic spectrum, and all but one of its crossings, including the only one capable of handling goods, has made Gaza a virtual open-air prison—run by particularly vicious inmates but surrounded and contained on all sides by the guards.

Hamas evidently decided to destroy that status quo, which was no longer serving its interests. The Islamist group also hopes to seize control of the Palestinian national movement from its secular Fatah rivals, who dominate the Palestinian Authority and, more important, the Palestine Liberation Organization, which is the internationally recognized representative of the Palestinian people. Hamas has never been a part of the PLO, in large measure because it is unwilling to accept the PLO’s treaty agreements with Israel. The most notable among these is the Oslo Accords, which included recognition of Israel by Palestinians but no Israeli recognition of a Palestinian state or a Palestinian right to statehood.

Hamas is attempting to seal the fate of Fatah, and maneuver to eventually take over the PLO and its international diplomatic presence, including United Nations observer-state status and embassies around the world. By taking the battle directly into Israel, claiming to be defending Muslim holy places in Jerusalem by branding the attack the “Al-Aqsa Deluge,” and hopefully breaking the Israeli siege of Gaza, Hamas seeks to belittle Fatah and demonstrate the primacy of its policy of unrestrained armed struggle over the PLO’s careful diplomacy.

Moreover, Hamas and its Iranian patrons want to block the diplomatic-normalization agreement that the United States has been brokering between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Such a deal poses a danger to Hamas because the benefits of its “significant Palestinian component” would have accrued to Fatah in the West Bank, at Hamas’s expense. For Iran, the agreement would be a major strategic setback. Should Israel, the most potent U.S. military partner in the region, and Saudi Arabia, Washington’s most financially powerful and religiously influential one, normalize and build cooperation, Tehran would face an integrated pro-American camp. American partners, including the UAE, Bahrain, Egypt, and Jordan, would effectively ring the Arabian Peninsula, securing control of the Red Sea, the Arabian Sea, and the Persian Gulf through their three crucial maritime choke points: the Suez Canal, the Bab el-Mandab Strait, and the Straits of Hormuz. Saudi-Israeli normalization would largely block Iran’s regional aspirations in the short run and Chinese ambitions in the more distant future.

So Hamas for domestic Palestinian reasons and Iran for regional strategic ones decided to set off an earthquake that would at least postpone such a reckoning. Iran and Hamas are counting on Israel to attack Gaza with such ferocity that the international sympathy of the past week toward Israel, even in the Arab world, evaporates quickly and is replaced by outrage at the suffering inflicted on the 2 million residents of Gaza. Those civilians have already been cut off from electricity, water, food, and medicine, all of which are controlled by Israel. Existing supplies will quickly dwindle as Gaza and its inhabitants are pounded from the air. Israel appears prepared to inflict many thousands of civilian casualties, if not more….

George Packer: Israel must not react stupidly

…Israel appears poised to fulfill Hamas’s intentions. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed retaliation that will “reverberate for generations” among Israel’s adversaries. The Israeli general Ghassan Aliyan warned, “You wanted hell—you will get hell.” Defense Minister Yoav Gallant declared, “We are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.” None of these speakers made any effort to distinguish between Hamas militants and the 2 million Palestinian civilians in Gaza. The “human animals” comment is telling. For decades, and especially in recent years, the people of Gaza have indeed been treated like animals. Perhaps not surprisingly, guerrillas emerging from their ranks indeed acted like animals when they attacked southern Israel. So now Israel will triple down on the dehumanization and collective punishment of all of these “human animals.” Tehran couldn’t ask for more.

Hamas and Iran hope that Israel will refuse to return to the status quo ante and will instead institute a prolonged ground occupation of Gaza, declaring that Hamas can no longer be allowed to pose such a threat. But Gaza, they trust, will be a slaughterhouse for Israeli soldiers, both during the immediate incursion and over time as the anticipated insurgency gains its footing.

Israel’s apparent eagerness to fall into this trap is understandable, and indeed predictable, which is why Hamas was confident in laying it. Outrageous overreach by terrorists typically aims to provoke overreach. Washington and other friends of Israel who are now seized with sympathy should immediately caution Israel not to make this blunder. If Israel instead exercises restraint, however difficult doing so might be both politically and emotionally, it can thwart the goals of Hamas and its Iranian sponsors…..

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/israel-hamas-war-iran-trap/675628/?utm_source=apple_news

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap

Storming into Gaza will fulfill Hamas’s wish.
 

Hamas’s leaders and their Iranian backers have a conscious strategy. Like almost all other acts of spectacularly bloodthirsty terrorism, Hamas’s assault on southern Israel was designed to provoke an emotional and equally or even more outrageous response by the targeted society. Hamas and Iran are attempting to goad the Israelis into Gaza for a prolonged confrontation—which is to say that the intended effect is precisely the ground assault Israel is now preparing in order to root out and destroy Hamas as an organization, kill its cadres and leadership, and destroy as much of its infrastructure and equipment as possible.

Hamas surely would not have meticulously planned its audacious assault without also extensively planning a response to the hoped-for Israeli counterattack on the ground. The Israeli military will likely encounter a determined insurgency in Gaza. After all, Israel has had control of the land strip from the outside, but not on the inside. Israeli dominion over Gaza’s coastal waters, airspace, electromagnetic spectrum, and all but one of its crossings, including the only one capable of handling goods, has made Gaza a virtual open-air prison—run by particularly vicious inmates but surrounded and contained on all sides by the guards.

Hamas evidently decided to destroy that status quo, which was no longer serving its interests. The Islamist group also hopes to seize control of the Palestinian national movement from its secular Fatah rivals, who dominate the Palestinian Authority and, more important, the Palestine Liberation Organization, which is the internationally recognized representative of the Palestinian people. Hamas has never been a part of the PLO, in large measure because it is unwilling to accept the PLO’s treaty agreements with Israel. The most notable among these is the Oslo Accords, which included recognition of Israel by Palestinians but no Israeli recognition of a Palestinian state or a Palestinian right to statehood.

Hamas is attempting to seal the fate of Fatah, and maneuver to eventually take over the PLO and its international diplomatic presence, including United Nations observer-state status and embassies around the world. By taking the battle directly into Israel, claiming to be defending Muslim holy places in Jerusalem by branding the attack the “Al-Aqsa Deluge,” and hopefully breaking the Israeli siege of Gaza, Hamas seeks to belittle Fatah and demonstrate the primacy of its policy of unrestrained armed struggle over the PLO’s careful diplomacy.

Moreover, Hamas and its Iranian patrons want to block the diplomatic-normalization agreement that the United States has been brokering between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Such a deal poses a danger to Hamas because the benefits of its “significant Palestinian component” would have accrued to Fatah in the West Bank, at Hamas’s expense. For Iran, the agreement would be a major strategic setback. Should Israel, the most potent U.S. military partner in the region, and Saudi Arabia, Washington’s most financially powerful and religiously influential one, normalize and build cooperation, Tehran would face an integrated pro-American camp. American partners, including the UAE, Bahrain, Egypt, and Jordan, would effectively ring the Arabian Peninsula, securing control of the Red Sea, the Arabian Sea, and the Persian Gulf through their three crucial maritime choke points: the Suez Canal, the Bab el-Mandab Strait, and the Straits of Hormuz. Saudi-Israeli normalization would largely block Iran’s regional aspirations in the short run and Chinese ambitions in the more distant future.

So Hamas for domestic Palestinian reasons and Iran for regional strategic ones decided to set off an earthquake that would at least postpone such a reckoning. Iran and Hamas are counting on Israel to attack Gaza with such ferocity that the international sympathy of the past week toward Israel, even in the Arab world, evaporates quickly and is replaced by outrage at the suffering inflicted on the 2 million residents of Gaza. Those civilians have already been cut off from electricity, water, food, and medicine, all of which are controlled by Israel. Existing supplies will quickly dwindle as Gaza and its inhabitants are pounded from the air. Israel appears prepared to inflict many thousands of civilian casualties, if not more….

George Packer: Israel must not react stupidly

…Israel appears poised to fulfill Hamas’s intentions. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed retaliation that will “reverberate for generations” among Israel’s adversaries. The Israeli general Ghassan Aliyan warned, “You wanted hell—you will get hell.” Defense Minister Yoav Gallant declared, “We are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.” None of these speakers made any effort to distinguish between Hamas militants and the 2 million Palestinian civilians in Gaza. The “human animals” comment is telling. For decades, and especially in recent years, the people of Gaza have indeed been treated like animals. Perhaps not surprisingly, guerrillas emerging from their ranks indeed acted like animals when they attacked southern Israel. So now Israel will triple down on the dehumanization and collective punishment of all of these “human animals.” Tehran couldn’t ask for more.

Hamas and Iran hope that Israel will refuse to return to the status quo ante and will instead institute a prolonged ground occupation of Gaza, declaring that Hamas can no longer be allowed to pose such a threat. But Gaza, they trust, will be a slaughterhouse for Israeli soldiers, both during the immediate incursion and over time as the anticipated insurgency gains its footing.

Israel’s apparent eagerness to fall into this trap is understandable, and indeed predictable, which is why Hamas was confident in laying it. Outrageous overreach by terrorists typically aims to provoke overreach. Washington and other friends of Israel who are now seized with sympathy should immediately caution Israel not to make this blunder. If Israel instead exercises restraint, however difficult doing so might be both politically and emotionally, it can thwart the goals of Hamas and its Iranian sponsors…..

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/israel-hamas-war-iran-trap/675628/?utm_source=apple_news

 

I think they've got it very wrong.

I think hamas may have planned for a limited incursion with the isrealies fighting very carefull around the civivs to prevent international backlash and that they'd get public support

I think the isrealies are not going to do anything 'lmiited' - and are going to steamroll over them and take the whole shebang. They're not stating it because there would be pushback - but there will be no stopping them once they're in there.

I don't think hamas realizes how far tech has advandced and what small drones can do these days.

i'm sure there will be isreali losses - but that's just going to push isreal towards a 'final' solution to this problem. I think when the dust clears there won't be any more 'strip' and isreal will havea  little more land,

[CITIZEN_2015]

29 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They have the sothern half.  That's where isreal is telling them to go.

Southern half of V\Gaza is not being attacked?

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You are taken by Israeli propaganda. 

Yes carpet bomb and murder over 2 million civilian's 40 percent of them children just because a thousand terrorists among them killed Israelis. With all those likely fake pictures of rapes and beheadings I don't blame you to be so full of hate for defenseless women and children to blown up into pieces. Even if true then kill the terrorist bastards not defenseless people. ISRAEL IS COMMITTING WAR CRIMES but the world is blinded by hate.

Do you understand why, when the mob kills a person, that they tend to kill the whole family?

What you propose leaves a few years gap and then more violence.

[ironstone]

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

This is ridiculous and part of Israeli propaganda. THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO GO. Israel have blocked all ways out.  Lock all the doors in a room with children in it and set fire to the room and a few seconds before announce to them to get out soon because you plan to set fire to it!!!!!

They share a border with Egypt. The Egyptians rightfully don't want them because they know full well Hamas will only cause trouble to put it very mildly.

Why no criticism of Egypt about this? Is it because Israel is the preferred scapegoat among progressives?

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Southern half of V\Gaza is not being attacked?

I guess - they're basically telling one half of gaza to get into the other half of gaza within 24 hours.  So - won't be attacked right off the bat would be my guess.

I think isreal's end game will be to just wipe out gaza and take it over.

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Do you understand why, when the mob kills a person, that they tend to kill the whole family?

What you propose leaves a few years gap and then more violence.

What you propose  is far more deadly attacks on Israel in future. Those children that you see injured or lost their parents in these attacks are future Hamas terrorists. Those hateful Hamas terrorists who last Saturday so brutally attacked Israeli civilians were yesterday's victims of Israeli attacks who lost their parents or brothers and sisters.

Some may say they were too legitimate in their actions based on your post of revenge for mob killing. Mass killing of women and children is no better than mob killing. Israel though is smart with very strong Zionist propaganda machine they fooled the whole world, I wouldn't be surprised if they planned the whole thing.

Edited October 13, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What you propose  is far more deadly attacks on Israel in future. Those children that you see injured or lost their parents in these attacks are future Hamas terrorists. Those hateful Hamas terrorists who last Saturday so brutally attacked Israeli civilians were yesterday's victims of Israeli attacks who lost their parents or brothers and sisters.

Some may say they were too legitimate in their actions based on your post of revenge for mob killing. Mass killing of women and children is no better than mob killing. Israel though is smart with very strong Zionist propaganda machine they fooled the whole world, I wouldn't be surprised if they planned the whole thing.

So wipe out the gaza strip - they can go be terrorists outside of isreal.

better than giving them a home in isreal.

[CITIZEN_2015]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So wipe out the gaza strip - they can go be terrorists outside of isreal.

better than giving them a home in isreal.

Sieg Heil.

 

[Nationalist]

27 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What you propose  is far more deadly attacks on Israel in future. Those children that you see injured or lost their parents in these attacks are future Hamas terrorists. Those hateful Hamas terrorists who last Saturday so brutally attacked Israeli civilians were yesterday's victims of Israeli attacks who lost their parents or brothers and sisters.

Some may say they were too legitimate in their actions based on your post of revenge for mob killing. Mass killing of women and children is no better than mob killing. Israel though is smart with very strong Zionist propaganda machine they fooled the whole world, I wouldn't be surprised if they planned the whole thing.

Oh boy! A conspiracy nutcase.

My opinion on how to most effectively end the problems with Hamas stands.

Level the place.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

I think they've got it very wrong.

I think hamas may have planned for a limited incursion with the isrealies fighting very carefull around the civivs to prevent international backlash and that they'd get public support

I think the isrealies are not going to do anything 'lmiited' - and are going to steamroll over them and take the whole shebang. They're not stating it because there would be pushback - but there will be no stopping them once they're in there.

I don't think hamas realizes how far tech has advandced and what small drones can do these days.

i'm sure there will be isreali losses - but that's just going to push isreal towards a 'final' solution to this problem. I think when the dust clears there won't be any more 'strip' and isreal will havea  little more land,

I provided only an excerpt of the article but the full text explains Israel’s longstanding policy of lop-sided retaliation which Israeli authorities have pledged to follow again. The all-time casualty ratio of Palestinian to Israeli civilians is close to 10-1. Even if an exaggeration, it’s unlikely that Hamas and Iran planned such a surprise and barbaric attack expecting only minimal Israeli response.   Also as Ukraine and other conflicts have shown, drones are widely available now even to individuals and non-state actors.

[BeaverFever]

44 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What you propose  is far more deadly attacks on Israel in future. Those children that you see injured or lost their parents in these attacks are future Hamas terrorists. Those hateful Hamas terrorists who last Saturday so brutally attacked Israeli civilians were yesterday's victims of Israeli attacks who lost their parents or brothers and sisters.

Some may say they were too legitimate in their actions based on your post of revenge for mob killing. Mass killing of women and children is no better than mob killing.

I agree with everything you said above but I can’t support your final comment about zionist plots. 

[BeaverFever]

53 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So wipe out the gaza strip - they can go be terrorists outside of isreal.

better than giving them a home in isreal.

Victimizing innocent civilians only escalates the conflict and will not bring security it will only bring further more extreme terrorism and draw in other countries. You think the other Arab and Muslim nations will standby while Israel enacts a mass genocide in relation for a terrorist attack?  You think there won’t be massive consequences to the already unstable order?

People who can control their emotions can differentiate between the justifiable military action that must be taken against terrorists, and the sheer self-defeating barbarism and state terrorism of “let their civilians burn in their beds”. 

At least I think everyone on this thread can agree that neither Hamas nor Israel ever wanted peace, at least not in recent decades. I would even argue that a significant portion of both sides don’t even want absolute victory as they believe that God has ordained that this Holy War must be carried out by every generation indefinitely, until the End Times occur. These people simply accept that both sides killing each other is just a tragic but inevitable part of daily life, like traffic accidents and drug overdoses. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by BeaverFever

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Southern half of V\Gaza is not being attacked?

Israel attacked fleeing Palestinian civilians to the south and killed 70 of them but I guess the world only sees or is sensitive to Israeli casualties. Palestinian lives don't matter. According to Israel they are animals!!!

Edited October 14, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Oh boy! A conspiracy nutcase.

My opinion on how to most effectively end the problems with Hamas stands.

Level the place.

What conspiracy theory. I only stated the facts, More innocent people killed, more hate and more terrorism. 

I think the difference between you and me is that I regret civilians lives lost regardless of race, religion or nationality but you only regret the Israeli or Jewish lives lost and likely don't care or even become happy to see Arab civilians killed? 

[BeaverFever]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's why you want to go with a head for an eye.  If you take their head they can't come back for your other eye after they poked you the first time.

Always pay them back 100 fold - this 1 for 1 thing is garbage.

It’s human nature to think that but thousands of years of human history tells us that’s not how it works in real life. After you take their head their relatives take the heads of your entire family, then 20 years later your children take the heads of their families and their friends, and so on ad infinitum. Then with so many headless people on all sides of the equation, a power vacuum occurs and some new third party rises to power and conquers everyone. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by BeaverFever

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What conspiracy theory. I only stated the facts, More innocent people killed, more hate and more terrorism. 

I think the difference between you and me is that I regret civilians lives lost regardless of race, religion or nationality but you only regret the Israeli or Jewish lives lost and likely don't care or even become happy to see Arab civilians killed? 

1. I seriously doubt you'd be able to identify a real fact, if it was on its knees pleasuring you.

2. The difference between you and me is that I respect reality and results. I could give a rat's ass that we're talking about Ashkenazi Heebs Vs. Camel-Jockies. Israel exists. They have colonized that field of sand. Gaza is a violent and dangerous threat and can easily be dispensed with. The best way to do that is from the air...all at once. The brutality would make the PLO and Hezbolah pee their dresses. It's the only way to end this once and for all.