Medical assistance in dying is no solution

[SpankyMcFarland]

People have much the same criticisms of health care for the dying in the UK as we have here. There are always going to be shortcomings in how very sick people are treated. I don’t see it as a legitimate argument against MAID here. All I’m arguing for is some sort of MAID to be available for the worst cases. That’s it. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[OftenWrong]

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Keep damn religions out of the lives of citizens. Governments have no business to decide for its citizens. If for my own reasons I wish to terminate my life I will do it with or without a doctor's assistance. A doctor's assistance only makes it painless. It is nobody's damn business.

Agreed in principle but if a country provides MAID there are certain safeguards that need to be put in place.

For someone with terminal illness it's understood. We know that sometimes people may experience a crisis and may impulsively choose to die. They can also get counselling.

I look at the larger picture, is not just about the needs of the individual but also the message it sends to society. Life should be considered sacred and not disposable. There needs to be a respectful process that preserves himan dignity at all times. It's not a meat market.

I contrast this with the growing attitude that persons should be given MAID instead of timely and appropriate medical treatment. Our country's health care system is a complete disaster and a failure. It (MAID) is open to being abused.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Again to the conservatives here: has Poilievre promised to get rid of MAID completely if he gets the chance? If not, why not?

[SpankyMcFarland]

14 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Our country's health care system is a complete disaster and a failure. 

We have problems which I have highlighted in the past but to call it a complete disaster is hyperbole. People are receiving life saving treatment every day in this country and the progress made on, say, lung cancer has been nothing short of miraculous. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Agreed in principle but if a country provides MAID there are certain safeguards that need to be put in place.

Just spell out the changes you want in the legislation. I don’t think we disagree that much in this matter actually. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada looks ridiculous on so many files now.  MAID is just one more fail.  

Well, maybe fewer people will want to immigrate here now?

[OftenWrong]

15 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We have problems which I have highlighted in the past but to call it a complete disaster is hyperbole. People are receiving life saving treatment every day in this country and the progress made on, say, lung cancer has been nothing short of miraculous. 

I disagree that it is hyperbole. Having worked in it directly most of m life and my wife still does so in a hospital. She's right on the front line.

It is in fact worse right now after Covid than it's ever been, though it was already in great distress before that. Covid took it a step further and yet I don't see a concerted effort to do something about it. Expensive and grossly inefficient, many die silently due to neglect.

I can provide the data to prove it, but not in this thread.

Edited October 5, 2023 by OftenWrong

[CITIZEN_2015]

17 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We have problems which I have highlighted in the past but to call it a complete disaster is hyperbole. People are receiving life saving treatment every day in this country and the progress made on, say, lung cancer has been nothing short of miraculous. 

Over 30,000 died because of medical errors in Canada in one year alone. If this is not a disaster then what is?

[SpankyMcFarland]

13 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Over 30,000 died because of medical errors in Canada in one year alone. If this is not a disaster then what is?

And errors don’t happen in the US or Europe? You guys need to get out more and learn a little gratitude. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

11 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

And errors don’t happen in the US or Europe? You guys need to get out more and learn a little gratitude. 

So that makes it right. Yes British NHS is much worse but does this mean everything is good in Canada?

We need to have a PRIVATE heath system ALONGSIDE the public care to take burden off public health. Those who can afford must pay.

Edited October 5, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Our country's health care system is a complete disaster and a failure.

Why does my own experience refute this? I was diagnosed with a serious cancer and was operated on within a couple months of its detection midway thru COVID. My post-op pathology results were excellent and the follow up monitoring is too.

Maybe people's different experiences have more to do with those little signs you see everywhere about being respectful and polite to medical workers. I see how not being that way might make it harder to get treated.

[SpankyMcFarland]

16 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So that makes it right. Yes British NHS is much worse but does this mean everything is good in Canada?

We need to have a PRIVATE heath system ALONGSIDE the public care to take burden off public health. Those who can afford must pay.

Wait a minute b’y, not so fast, hold your horses there and go easy on the uppercase typing. This is not a digital situation, eg, perfection or catastrophe. There’s a large grey zone of could do better in between that we will always be in. Yes, we certainly have problems (and I support a private sector BTW), but we’re not Haiti yet in my humble opinion. A bit of perspective is called for. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Again to the conservatives here: has Poilievre promised to get rid of MAID completely if he gets the chance? If not, why not?

The same reason he won’t do anything about Canada’s unlimited abortion on demand: political expediency.  The Conservatives are only a bit better than the Liberals.  All major political parties are whores to public opinion.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The same reason he won’t do anything about Canada’s unlimited abortion on demand: political expediency.  The Conservatives are only a bit better than the Liberals.  All major political parties are whores to public opinion.  

I think politicians should pay attention to public opinion in a democracy. 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Well, maybe fewer people will want to immigrate here now?

No because they let immigrants in from countries that are more dysfunctional than Canada.  

4 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think politicians should pay attention to public opinion in a democracy. 

Not on all matters, including constitutional rights.  Hitler was democratically elected.  

Edited October 5, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Wait a minute b’y, not so fast, hold your horses there and go easy on the uppercase typing. This is not a digital situation, eg, perfection or catastrophe. There’s a large grey zone of could do better in between that we will always be in. Yes, we certainly have problems (and I support a private sector BTW), but we’re not Haiti yet in my humble opinion. A bit of perspective is called for. 

So we should be satisfied because it is not as bad as Haiti? So be happy. If we have poverty and people can't afford housing and we have homeless and high inflation and etc. and etc. don't worry. Be happy. We are not starving like some people in Africa, right?

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I disagree that it is hyperbole. Having worked in it directly most of m life and my wife still does so in a hospital. She's right on the front line.

It is in fact worse right now after Covid than it's ever been, though it was already in great distress before that. Covid took it a step further and yet I don't see a concerted effort to do something about it. Expensive and grossly inefficient, many die silently due to neglect.

I can provide the data to prove it, but not in this thread.

Covid is nothing more than a cold you know. You should tell your wife.?

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Covid is nothing more than a cold you know. You should tell your wife.?

I doubt it's the wife that's the problem - they fired a lot of medical personnel over covid. Wish we had those back but we don't. Now the system is 'overloaded' - and with the immigration rates that's not going to get better is it.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Covid is nothing more than a cold you know. You should tell your wife.?

She does cancer care, not Covid. And covid is about as harmful as the flu. So go get yer shots, spitzbubbie.

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think politicians should pay attention to public opinion in a democracy. 

That's what the Nazis thought would justify killing six million Jews.  They propagandized the public for years in Germany to turn them against the Jews.  They invented evil science and evil theology to convince the public.  One of Hitler's right hand men was Gerhart Kittel, a theologian turned Nazi.  He was one of HItler's chief propagandists.  He wrote articles for Hitler in publications for years to turn the people against the Jews.  He was convicted and sentence as a war criminal after the war.  You can Google him.

Shockingly Gerhard Kittel wrote the ten volume Theological Dictionary of the New Testament that is used by all modern Bible translators to find the meaning of words. (even though he was a convicted war criminal). The King James Version is the only reliable Bible to use being produced in 1611 and based on the Received Text.

They painted the Jews as evil and needed to be destroyed while promoting their Aryan race. 

 I see a similar pattern here in Canada. First brainwash the people into believing in the Trudeau liberal democracy church.  The ideology that democracy makes things right and moral if that is what the majority want is the basis of diabolical legalized suicide or murder.   That is the liberal ideology in a nutshell.  Then you can use it to do whatever you wish just as the Nazis did.  Historic Christian teachings about what is right and what is wrong do not count any more.  Only the new ideology of liberal "democracy" determines right and wrong.

MAID is based on evil ideology/theology that they are being merciful in allowing legalized assisted suicide.  After all who would question the phrase "death with dignity"?  First brainwash the people with the ideology that Liberalism knows what is best for you;  then use it to enforce the evil agenda.  

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think politicians should pay attention to public opinion in a democracy. 

That is exactly why we have assisted suicide, around 100,000 abortions a year, promotion of sexual orientation, gender identity, same-sex marriage, pride days, catch and release criminal justice system, no capital punishment for murderers, and on and on.  Let's not forget the ideology a criminal is not responsible for his crimes; it is either society's fault, the influences in his past life or he is NCR because of mental problems.   A decadent, crumbling society sliding deeper into depravity. 

But not only that, there are reports the MAID protocols are not being followed anyway and because of the secrecy surrounding it, it can be abused and people given MAID who never really chose it or didn't know what they were doing.

Edited October 5, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

A doctor was asked if the signature on a paper for MAID was from the patient's.  He said someone told him it was.

Edited October 6, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think politicians should pay attention to public opinion in a democracy. 

A few other things we have because of "democracy" and the belief that liberalism backed by democracy always knows better.

Legalized gambling, free drugs for addicts, places to take them, public schools teaching sexual freedom, sexual orientation and gender identity to young people, have sex as long as you take precautions (grooming), widespread bullying, repeat offenders constantly offending, robbing, shoplifting, being caught and immediately released.  

Edited October 5, 2023 by blackbird

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not on all matters, including constitutional rights.  Hitler was democratically elected.  

Paying attention doesn’t mean slavishly following. However, when an issue becomes the settled will of the people over time then it should not be simply ignored. 

[OftenWrong]

28 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Paying attention doesn’t mean slavishly following. However, when an issue becomes the settled will of the people over time then it should not be simply ignored. 

That's nice that you think the mob are intelligent enough to have a will of their own. Blessed is our democracy.

Now pick one from column A, one from column B.