First Nations in northern Ontario seek over $100B to honour treaty promise

[eyeball]

20 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Well, if you want to pay, go ahead and pay them yourself.  But stay away from everyone else' hard-earned money and property.

That's the government's job. In any case, modern treaties are one of the biggest economic drivers in my region right now. There have been benefits to everyone else around here too. Thousands of non-indigenous people would still be on dial-up internet as well if fibre-optic hadn't been part of the treaty. Servicing and supplying  First Nation's business startups and payrolls including to several non-native employees have all contributed to our local economic growth. There've been other infrastructure investments too, like a new fire hall for example.

So...thanks!

Edited September 24, 2023 by eyeball

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That's the government's job. In any case, modern treaties are one of the biggest economic drivers in my region right now. There have been benefits to everyone else around here too. Thousands of non-indigenous people would still be on dial-up internet as well if fibre-optic hadn't been part of the treaty. Servicing and supplying  First Nation's business startups and payrolls including to several non-native employees have all contributed to our local economic growth. There've been other infrastructure investments too, like a new fire hall for example.

So...thanks!

That's all fine, but hopefully the government didn't have to hand over 100 billion dollars of taxpayer money.  As long as it is not being funded by taxpayers.  Many people are struggling to make ends meet and many cannot afford to buy a home and don't see much hope on the horizon.  I don't oppose negotiating treaties as long as it doesn't put a burden on the taxpayers of the province.  We shouldn't be expected to pay for all this FN business startups and payrolls.  That is the NDP buying votes at the expense of everyone else.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's the government's job.

Everything the government does is paid for by the hard-working taxpayers.  Why do you hate the taxpayers and favour those who do little or nothing for themselves?  Why do you favour socialists who care little for those who produce everything and give to those who do nothing?  That kind of government lives off the hard work of the people and make sure they are well taken care of with generous salaries and pensions at everyone else's expense.

Edited September 25, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Why do you hate the taxpayers and the favour those who do little or nothing for themselves?  Why do you favour socialists who care little for those who produce everything and give to those who do nothing?

I don't. I don't think about these things at all really. Certainly not the way you do.

[Nationalist]

OMG...$100B?

If they pay it...they're id1ots.

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We shouldn't be expected to pay for all this FN business startups and payrolls.

No one's sent me a bill.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

OMG...$100B?

If they pay it...they're id1ots.

It's just an opening bid at the beginning of a long negotiation and settlement process. You'll likely be dead before it's concluded.

[blackbird]

32 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I don't. I don't think about these things at all really. Certainly not the way you do.

That's the problem in a nutshell.  You don't think about it and don't care.  Taking taxpayer's money and spreading it around, at some point, could be considered as stealing.  "Thou shalt not steal" is what God's word says.  Socialists and Communists don't think about it.  To them wealth or property redistribution is the way the universe should be.

[blackbird]

31 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No one's sent me a bill.

They don't need to send a bill.  It's all part of your various taxes.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

They don't need to send a bill.  It's all part of your various taxes.

Well, no one's forcing me to remain in Canada. What about you?

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well, no one's forcing me to remain in Canada. What about you?

As a Canadian citizen, I have as much right to live here as you or anyone else.  I also have as much right as you to my views about how the country should be governed and how my hard-earned tax money is used.

[CdnFox]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:18 AM, Michael Hardner said:

You know, they'd probably settle for $50B ?

Anyway, it's fun to see people blow their tops on this stuff but sad that there's no way to actually resolve it.  In terms of the people, I would like someone to acknowledge that indeed they lost a lot.  If the people who flip the table over if you try to change the COLOUR of the poppy would at least do that, I would be happy.

That has been done again and again and again and again and again and again,

It's never enough, it will never be enough, they will never let it be enough and i doubt you would either

TONNES of people, gov'ts of every level, politiicans, experts, pundits, public figures, organizations, you name it have said the first nations were treated badly and lost something at the hands of Canada.

Not one is ALLOWED to claim there has ever been any benefit to them - which of course there has been in huge amounts.

And none are allowed to speak of the terrible things the first nations used to do.  Y'know - like slavery. Or selling women.  Or genocide.

It's way too one sided

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

As a Canadian citizen, I have as much right to live here as you or anyone else.  I also have as much right as you to my views about how the country should be governed and how my hard-earned tax money is used.

I never said you didn't. I've simply been pointing out how pointless the arguments and outrage you express are on the topic of negotiating and settling First Nation's claims.

[Nationalist]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's just an opening bid at the beginning of a long negotiation and settlement process. You'll likely be dead before it's concluded.

It's stupid at any cost.

[ExFlyer]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

I've lived next door to a First Nation's village for half a century now. I was a volunteer on their fire dept for several years.  

And you sound immensely full of yourself.

The wishful memes you keep throwing at acknowledgment, reconciliation and treaties didn't stick any better 50 years ago than they do now.

From my perspective your head is up your ass which probably explains the filth you mentioned.

Call me whatever you want, you defending an entire peoples that have never done anything for the support and money they have received for the past hundreds of years tells me you have not paid attention.

The indigenous are generational welfare cases and we keep feeding them.

Your head is in my wallet, not your ass.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Call me whatever you want, you defending an entire peoples that have never done anything for the support and money they have received for the past hundreds of years tells me you have not paid attention.

The indigenous are generational welfare cases and we keep feeding them.

Your head is in my wallet, not your ass.

As opposed to defending how our people simply took their land and now claim the rights to our cake and eating it too. Okay.

Good luck with that in court and don't forget to bring your wallet.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

As opposed to defending how our people simply took their land and now claim the rights to our cake and eating it too. Okay.

Good luck with that in court and don't forget to bring your wallet.

Oh FO and quit your whining. They never did anything to keep their land. They were happy to suck the government teat for hundreds of years.

Their own people are screwing them over for gawds sakes. Their own chiefs and councils get lots of money on top of what every band gets.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh FO and quit your whining.

In not whining, like I said I'm benefitting.

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Their own people are screwing them over for gawds sakes. Their own chiefs and councils get lots of money on top of what every band gets.

Yeah well, you seem to do a lot of whining about doing anything to improve accountability and transparency. Where do you think people get the idea corruption is okay or necessary to the business of getting things done? Maybe you're benefitting from it or believe we all benefit from it.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The indigenous are generational welfare cases and we keep feeding them.

While this is generalizing quite a bit, the reality, is that there are significantly higher levels of alcohol abuse, sexual assault, suicide and many other ailments in this community that dwarf that of Canada in general. Especially the most tragic, which is suicide, which is dwarfed over 5 fold from the general population.

To blame the past, without taking into account your contributions to the present (in continuing the same trajectory or choosing to change it), is playing the victim card.

Sorry, but life is hard.

I grew up dirt poor. My wife grew up in a third world country where people starve to death.

They were colonized and women were raped, killed and impregnated. They're a growing economy.

The Chinese population in Canada. Japanese. Neither had an easy ride. Both are among the leading demographic in Canada, regarding education and affluence.

People are afraid to say it, because just like saying anything about the trans community, not acknowledging the victimhood of this community, is seen as a crime.

When I see an aboriginal citizen slumped on a sidewalk, drunk or on drugs, I don't think about what whitey did to them.

I think what they did to themselves. 

There comes a certain point in life where you must look in the mirror, accept you're f***ing up in life and that you must change your ways,  if not to give your future generation(s) a chance.

Demanding hand outs from the government, indicate to me, that change is impossible. 

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

In not whining, like I said I'm benefitting.

Yeah well, you seem to do a lot of whining about doing anything to improve accountability and transparency. Where do you think people get the idea corruption is okay or necessary to the business of getting things done? Maybe you're benefitting from it or believe we all benefit from it.

Oh stop, Canadians are tired of supporting lazy indigenous.

Oh and stop deflecting...this is not about anything other than lazy indigenous that want more money. Screw them, give them the and and let them go fishing and hunting and if they want houses, buy them if they want water purification, buy it if it breaks fix it them selves.

[ExFlyer]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

While this is generalizing quite a bit, the reality, is that there are significantly higher levels of alcohol abuse, sexual assault, suicide and many other ailments in this community that dwarf that of Canada in general. Especially the most tragic, which is suicide, which is dwarfed over 5 fold from the general population.

To blame the past, without taking into account your contributions to the present (in continuing the same trajectory or choosing to change it), is playing the victim card.

Sorry, but life is hard.

I grew up dirt poor. My wife grew up in a third world country where people starve to death.

They were colonized and women were raped, killed and impregnated. They're a growing economy.

The Chinese population in Canada. Japanese. Neither had an easy ride. Both are among the leading demographic in Canada, regarding education and affluence.

People are afraid to say it, because just like saying anything about the trans community, not acknowledging the victimhood of this community, is seen as a crime.

When I see an aboriginal citizen slumped on a sidewalk, drunk or on drugs, I don't think about what whitey did to them.

I think what they did to themselves. 

There comes a certain point in life where you must look in the mirror, accept you're f***ing up in life and that you must change your ways,  if not to give your future generation(s) a chance.

Demanding hand outs from the government, indicate to me, that change is impossible. 

You are just so much more polite than I. We are saying the same thing except I am more blunt.

You speak of your Wife and yourself. You both did what was necessary to become better. I applaud you for that. My ancestors came to Canada with nothing and got nothing and worked for everything they have.

There is no incentive for the indigenous to better themselves because we just give them what they want and then give them more money.

Their lot in life, as bad as it seems and looks is a self inflicted issue. We did not rape and pillage and murder and kill their children. They did that to themselves, even before whitey came (and still do). They were tribal and they fought amongst each other and they raped and pillaged and killed children and made slaves of their enemies.I have close friends in the RCMP that worked in many aboriginal communities. Dry communities yet, drugs and alcohol still got in. The users were arrested and let out the next day because the council said to release them. No council or chief ever stopped the illicit importation or usage or anything form coming in regardless if it was a dry community or not.

All self inflicted and if we take the kids away from them to foster care, the whitey is the bad guy???

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

As opposed to defending how our people simply took their land and now claim the rights to our cake and eating it too. Okay.

Surely you can appreciate that land taken generations ago (hundreds of years ago in this case) aren't issues that people generally concern themselves about elsewhere in the world.  This is a peculiarity of the English colonies mostly.  I wonder why?  

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Good luck with that in court and don't forget to bring your wallet.

Good luck to the natives in Northern Ontario getting $100B (or anything even remotely approaching that) from the government.  Section 1 of the Charter has us covered.  

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

There is no incentive for the indigenous to better themselves

Generations of hand outs will do that to you. You create a dependency, and then an entitlement to them.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

All self inflicted and if we take the kids away from them to foster care, the whitey is the bad guy???

Not many options, and it seems the best one that was jotted down, was throwing money at they problem, and sweeping it under the rug.

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Surely you can appreciate that land taken generations ago (hundreds of years ago in this case) aren't issues that people generally concern themselves about elsewhere in the world.  This is a peculiarity of the English colonies mostly.  I wonder why?

The issues just seem to compel our justice or political system to rule and legislate in a certain inevitable direction. 

9 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Good luck to the natives in Northern Ontario getting $100B (or anything even remotely approaching that) from the government.  Section 1 of the Charter has us covered.  

Seems like an awful lot alright. Like I said an early days opening position followed by negotiations and court cases.  It's just how the issue rolls.

[ExFlyer]

On 9/24/2023 at 9:34 PM, Nationalist said:

OMG...$100B?

If they pay it...they're id1ots.

What the hey...they do not even have any money so the feds will pay for their lawyers to sue the feds LOL