GTA school board removing all books published pre-2008 (they're offensive)

[Moonlight Graham]

It's Fahrenheit 905!

The cultural genociding Stalinists at the Peel school board have been removing all library books published before 2008 because of diversity/equity/inclusion nonsense.  They think kids shouldn't read the Diary of Anne Frank or Harry Potter because "too many white people" or "OMG i'm offended".  Luckily the province is asking the board to do a reversal.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-education-minister-asks-peel-board-to-halt-library-collection-book-removals-1.6560015

At what point do actions like this amount to attempts of cultural genocide?   We can add this to our new passport which has removed all of our historical references.  Let's not be fooled by exactly what these cultural leftists are trying to do here.  Culture is a zero-sum game for them.  They wish to wipe away and suppress the past and create a blank slate so they can push their own ideological propaganda.

[Michael Hardner]

The CBC article says that this came from Stalinist Stephen Lecce's  office...

9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  They wish to wipe away and suppress the past and create a blank slate so they can push their own ideological propaganda.

Here's some advice... wait a bit before reacting to these things...

[Moonlight Graham]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The CBC article says that this came from Stalinist Stephen Lecce's  office...

I'm aware of the CBC article.  My article also says the board was reacting to a provincial policy.  The 2008 blanket removal did not come from the province.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm aware of the CBC article.  My article also says the board was reacting to a provincial policy.  The 2008 blanket removal did not come from the province.

"The documents lay out an "equitable curation cycle" for weeding, which it says was created to support Directive 18 from the Minister of Education based on a 2020 Ministry review and report on widespread issues of systematic discrimination within the PDSB. "

 

Like I say, we should just wait for the finger pointing to stop.. they may indeed just fix this.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"The documents lay out an "equitable curation cycle" for weeding, which it says was created to support Directive 18 from the Minister of Education based on a 2020 Ministry review and report on widespread issues of systematic discrimination within the PDSB. "

 

Like I say, we should just wait for the finger pointing to stop.. they may indeed just fix this.

Typical liberal 

If they start down that road - that is the correct time to raise a fuss and look to have it corrected. Not to sit back and hope for  the best and see.

Frankly the removal of ANY books from the libraries is cause for concern.  Moving them to an 'age appropriate' section is one thing but i thought that we'd left book burning in the distant past.

[Boges]

The Provincial directive was for removing damaged books. PDSB went rogue and started removing books for cultural reasons. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

.

Frankly the removal of ANY books from the libraries is cause for concern.   

^This from the types that want to call in an air strike when they see a "Two Moms" book because "it pornography" ....

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

^This from the types that want to call in an air strike when they see a "Two Moms" book because "it pornography" ....

I don't recall saying that.  Oh - i see, as a left wing advocate you're using bigoted stereotypes of those of different opinions to attempt to dismiss the argument rather than address it.

In  fact - nobody really cares about those books being in libaries - they care about making sure they're age restricted so that an 8 year old doesn't actually read visual depictions of actual gay oral sex, like the book i posted a while back which was in elementary school libraries.

And what did i say here? RIGHT after the part you quoted?

"Moving them to an 'age appropriate' section is one thing"

 

Sigh. Mike.  If you have to lie to make your point... you probably don't have a very good point. 

[I am Groot]

Trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with school boards starts with why they don't seem to be representative of the parents of those schools. In fact, these 'educrats' appear to be more closely aligned with the far left indoctrination types that flow out of universities with degrees in gender studies and sociology, and who think merit and  punctuality are symbols of white supremacy. 

I don't know if it's still the case, though it probably is that the NDP uses local school boards as a kind of training ground for its politicians. They help them get elected there, where there's no real organized opposition, then see how they perform both as candidates and while at the board to assess whether to support them going for something higher, like city council or MPP The other parties don't do this and this kind of accounts for political the lopsidedness of the schoolboards. Even the Catholic schoolboards have fallen prey to this nonsensical leftist ideology that is anti-capitalist, anti-western cultural values, and to a degree, even anti-religious.

I mean, nothing will infuriate our local Catholic school board as much as questioning trans or gay rights! And I don't think that's really a reflection of how Catholic parents feel.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If you have to lie to make your point... you probably don't have a very good point. 

You have zero sense of humour...

[Moonlight Graham]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"The documents lay out an "equitable curation cycle" for weeding, which it says was created to support Directive 18 from the Minister of Education based on a 2020 Ministry review and report on widespread issues of systematic discrimination within the PDSB. "

 

Like I say, we should just wait for the finger pointing to stop.. they may indeed just fix this.

It doesn't even particularly matter whose "fault" it is.  The very act of banning all books pre-2008 board-wide is insane, and somebody somewhere at the board thought it was a good idea.

Yes let's let the dust settle.  The fact that things like this occur in 2023 is concerning, and is a growing trend throughout society rather than an isolated incident.  We need to reject the ideology and identity politics that makes these things occur.  Combing through every book for the purposes of an "equity and diversity" audit per Directive 18 is insane.

Of course they will likely fix this, because it is a stupid policy that parents, teachers, and students won't like.

 

[Zeitgeist]

The left is erasing the past to reprogram kids to be eunuch woke lunatics.  

[ExFlyer]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:16 PM, Michael Hardner said:

On 9/14/2023 at 6:27 AM, Michael Hardner said:

"The documents lay out an "equitable curation cycle" for weeding, which it says was created to support Directive 18 from the Minister of Education based on a 2020 Ministry review and report on widespread issues of systematic discrimination within the PDSB. "

 

Like I say, we should just wait for the finger pointing to stop.. they may indeed just fix this.

says that this came from Stalinist Stephen Lecce's  office...

Here's some advice... wait a bit before reacting to these things...

Not sure what happened in Peel but it was 3 years ago that the ministry had to set down some rules and objectives and requirements for results.
I suspect that issue (or issues) have been resolved so, I am not sure why you brought this up?

Also I am unclear why the  Peel board made such a ruling. Why was a 15 year old llmit set on what is in libraries. How are students going to do research?

EDIT:  Brings me to a personal point... with the internet availability nowadays...are libraries even necessary any more. Here in Ottawa we are spending millions and millions and millions of dollars to build a new central library and the ones using it are really only for free internet and movie loans.

Edited September 15, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1.I am not sure why you brought this up?

2. ... are libraries even necessary any more. Here in Ottawa we are spending millions and millions and millions of dollars to build a new central library and the ones using it are really only for free internet and movie loans.

1. It was cited as a driver for the current actions.
2. I would say so.  They have rebranded as community spaces... "free internet and movie loans" is a valid service to the community with some value to it

[ExFlyer]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It was cited as a driver for the current actions.
2. I would say so.  They have rebranded as community spaces... "free internet and movie loans" is a valid service to the community with some value to it

1. I am unsure of that but regardless, the actions of 2020 are not relevant and those actions have all been resolved. I did not read anything about culling books.

2. I can argue the library requirement with you for a long time. I used to work near the old central library and what I have seen is, I suppose you are correct, it was a community space, a place for homeless when it rains and in the winter, free internet (and often a source for porn), free movies and even free loans of art. Free internet is available almost everywhere nowadays, I do not see the library as being. a needed source and the cost of and upkeep of the computers should not be public expense. In my neighbourhood, the loneliest place is the community library. No one uses it.  Having said that, audio book loans are good and I do see a need for this as there are many visually impaired folks that can really use them. Overall though, I think the expense of maintaining huge libraries is no longer required.

Anyway, how is the Peel school board action justified? The entire board must have debated it and voted on it. Where is that information and result?

Edited September 15, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

1. I do not see the library as being. a needed source and the cost of and upkeep of the computers should not be public expense.

2. Anyway, how is the Peel school board action justified? The entire board must have debated it and voted on it. Where is that information and result?

1. Right, well I'm taking it that you don't have small kids either.  Anyway, go ahead and make your point with your representative.  I will argue we need more non-commercial public spaces and I don't think we have anything more to discuss on this.

2. I doubt that the 'entire board' debated and voted on it.  I'm not here to defend the action, just to point out that jumping into a public controversy with outrage is the method of the day and it's tiresome and unhelpful.  What I said: let the dust settle and it will likely be solved, and the answers will come out in a few days..

[ExFlyer]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Right, well I'm taking it that you don't have small kids either.  Anyway, go ahead and make your point with your representative.  I will argue we need more non-commercial public spaces and I don't think we have anything more to discuss on this.

2. I doubt that the 'entire board' debated and voted on it.  I'm not here to defend the action, just to point out that jumping into a public controversy with outrage is the method of the day and it's tiresome and unhelpful.  What I said: let the dust settle and it will likely be solved, and the answers will come out in a few days..

1. No, I have no kids in the game but am paying taxes to keep libraries open. I do have a public library in a school a block away and volunteer at the school and see no one in the library at all. They even reduced their hours to 3 days a week and only during school hours. As I said, when I worked near the central library, I walked past it twice. a day and it was empty except for the homeless, many that were sleeping. (and it was only open 10 to 4. The ones that are most upset are publishers and authors. I think that, with a few exceptions, book sales are to libraries and with them closing all over, those groups lose big time. COVID kind or proved libraries were not necessary anymore. Other sources became more available and ,more useful. EBooks were popular but they also declined.  https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/feb/10/library-use-plummeted-in-2021-but-e-visits-showed-18-rise-during-lockdown

Only 7 percent of Americans report visiting libraries weekly, while 59 percent state that they seldom or never visit their local public library.

https://www.aei.org/politics-and-public-opinion/libraries-are-in-decline-lets-renew-them/

2. I suspect that to make such a dramatic policy change, the whole board would have had to have voted on it's acceptance. As I read it, there was no dust until a news station made a comment. It was being done and would have been completed had the station not brought it up. What surprises me is schools, librarians  and teachers have not said anything. I agree with you, I think the whole thing will be shot down.

Edited September 15, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1. Only 7 percent of Americans report visiting libraries weekly 

2. I suspect that to make such a dramatic policy change, the whole board would have had to have voted on it's acceptance.

 

1. That could be used as evidence of value.   What percentage of people use welfare or healthcare in a year ?  Your branch indeed sounds underused though.

2. It's only dramatic after the fact, when it hits the papers.  This usually means that the leaders are caught by surprise because they do everything in their power to avoid controversy.

[Zeitgeist]

Directive 18 sounds distinctly dystopian, right up there with the Final Solution.  People are afraid to do what’s sensible now.  I think it’s because they’ve gotten used to being told that unhealthy behaviour is fine and antisocial measures like lockdowns are “keeping us safe”.  People have lost their minds and common sense is out the window.

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That could be used as evidence of value.   What percentage of people use welfare or healthcare in a year ?  Your branch indeed sounds underused though.

2. It's only dramatic after the fact, when it hits the papers.  This usually means that the leaders are caught by surprise because they do everything in their power to avoid controversy.

1. It is actual evidence of value. Please tell me you are not equating welfare and healthcare to library usage???

2. I suppose but school board members are elected officials and supposedly leaders in the direction of our childrens educations. They are as much politicians as any other elected persons. The majority of the board voted it so (maybe mioe depending on how the board is set up).

Edited September 15, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1. It is actual evidence of value. Please tell me you are not equating welfare and healthcare to library usage???

2. I suppose but school board members are elected officials and supposedly leaders in the direction of our childrens educations. They are as much politicians as any other elected persons. The majority of the board voted it so (maybe mioe depending on how the board is set up).

1. These are services that some people use and some don't.  Please tell me that because 7% of people use something you're not saying it should be shut down.

2. They're not supposed to be politicians but they are political.

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. These are services that some people use and some don't.  Please tell me that because 7% of people use something you're not saying it should be shut down.

2. They're not supposed to be politicians but they are political.

1. Healthcare is a right and welfare is a lifeline, libraries are neither.

2. Any elected person is a politician. They all campaign and they fight for the position. They convince the electorate of the good they are going to do for our kids.

I have told you I have no skin in the game bit...even many decades after having no kids in school,  good percentage of my annual property taxes go to the schools. I will always have criticism or (very little) praise for school boards. Here in Ottawa, we have 5 school boards for a city that just reached 1 million population and only 77,000 students. Methinks that is over governance

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1. Healthcare is a right and welfare is a lifeline, libraries are neither.

2. Any elected person is a politician. They all campaign and they fight for the position. They convince the electorate of the good they are going to do for our kids.

3. I have told you I have no skin in the game bit...even many decades after having no kids in school,  good percentage of my annual property taxes go to the schools. I will always have criticism or (very little) praise for school boards. Here in Ottawa, we have 5 school boards for a city that just reached 1 million population and only 77,000 students. Methinks that is over governance

1. Well should we have a little chat about how some services are the same and some are different ?  It may mean that we're talking about this too much and we've said all there is to be said.

2. The School Board isn't the same as the Trustees.  The Board itself operates the school system, and the Trustees are the representatives of the "public".

3. I absolutely LOVE the phrase "methinks"

Edited September 15, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[Zeitgeist]

The structure of school boards is broken.  Most people don’t know the people they’re voting for as trustee candidates in an election.  Half the trustees aren’t especially educated, yet they choose the directors of school boards, who spend much time kissing up to trustees for obvious reasons.  The senior admin of school boards basically live and die by the sword of pleasing trustees.

Some trustees vote in policy that’s not especially wise.  In the Catholic boards some trustees are pushing policies that are counter to Catholic teachings.  Such policies have been enacted in many boards, including gender affirmation without parental knowledge and other very particular anti-religious or anti-parenting perspectives.

If a pushy activist group that most people wouldn’t support has the ears of a few trustees, policies and approaches enter the scene that are not okay.  We see this at Ottawa-Carleton and Waterloo, Renfrew Catholic, etc.  There’s a kind of anti-free speech, hyper-left activist atmosphere at many boards today.  The book banning at Peel is the direct result of over-zealous woke warriors taking a wrecking ball to much that is of value.  In Ottawa public schools all students are treated as though they are trans with they them pronouns unless parents specifically ask otherwise.  Questioning such policies will get you kicked out of board meetings or your mic will be turned off.  Waterloo does this too.  The squeamish fearful radical left puritans scream “human rights” and shut down debate.  Trustees who do have the courage and sense to oppose this insanity are simply barred from attending.

It doesn’t matter if teachers and parents are silenced or a principal commits suicide because of tyrannical so-called equity politics or training.  Good books can be removed from shelves.  As long as the Director finds favour with the majority of trustees, nothing else matters.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[suds]

On 9/15/2023 at 2:42 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Directive 18 sounds distinctly dystopian, right up there with the Final Solution.  People are afraid to do what’s sensible now.  I think it’s because they’ve gotten used to being told that unhealthy behaviour is fine and antisocial measures like lockdowns are “keeping us safe”.  People have lost their minds and common sense is out the window.

It all depends on how one interprets Directive 18. A library that tries to serve the needs of a large diverse student body (with different cultural backgrounds)  should have a wide selection of books that serve those needs. It doesn't necessarily mean that every book has to meet those requirements nor would it be even remotely possible to do so. However, this thing about the Board removing all books published before 2008 makes absolutely no sense regardless of how one interprets Directive 18. Has the Board completed its audit and assessment of the books on hand? If it has not then no books should be removed. If it has, then either make the library larger or remove those books necessary to make room for the new ones coming in.

Edited September 18, 2023 by suds