De-zone the whole greenbelt

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

What i said is the absolute unvarnished truth. Sorry

Our government can murder with impunity.

Yer a loon alright.

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Our government can murder with impunity.

Yer a loon alright.

Well as usual you have to lie to try to make your point. Nobody said "with impunity".

But... what do you think capital punishment was? That is a law that says "its ok to murder someone, and not for self defense but to punish them".  So for many years the gov't had every right to kill people.  And they could bring that law back tomorrow.

The gov't could literally pass a law that said "notwithstanding the charter, anyone who uses the name 'eyeball' online shall be subject to summary execution".    And if they did, they could kill you quite lawfully.  That's the truth.

Now - one would hope that before they did the people would freak out and try to put a stop to it and vote them out (might win them a few votes in SOME circles nyuk nyuk) but until that happened - perfectly legal.

Look at the powers police get to kill people - far more than you or I. 

So sorry - it is the absolute truth.  Gov'ts DO have the ability to pass such laws and in the past our gov'ts have done so. Remember - it's only murder if its' against the law. Otherwise it's just homicide.

So - it's no surprise that given the gov't has the power to do that, that the liberals pass laws and abuse laws to be corrupt.

 

I know you don't understand how our gov't works or our laws. We've discussed that before. But you need to think about these things a little more.

 

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I know you don't understand how our gov't works or our laws.

I sure as f**k know they don't relate to corruption with the impunity you say they do. But of course your just trying to pick a fight so...

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I get pissed off at it because of people like you who think corruption is no big deal.

Says the trudeau supporter.

What were you saying about giving your head a shake?    Your hypocrisy is Olympic level.

[CdnFox]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I sure as f**k know they don't relate to corruption with the impunity you say they do.

No you don't.  Not even a little. And you've made that quite clear .

And you fully support corruption. So whats your issue?

Quote

But of course your just trying to pick a fight so...

Right.  You make stupid statements, i point out the simple truth, you freak out.  And i'm trying to pick a fight

Sorry kiddo.   The truth is simple. The gov't can always undo and skirt laws designed to hold it accountable, it is up to the public to hold THEM accountable by punishing them when they do

Instead  you insist on defending and rewarding them.  YOU are the problem. not the CPC and not anyone else.

[eyeball]

On 9/6/2023 at 8:43 PM, CdnFox said:

They care about the "sacred green belt" and facts be damned.

I'm sure lots care about the greenbelt too but polls and such are pretty consistent, it's mostly the corruption that has people pissed off.  Public anger over corruption will only continue to increase in an economy that is getting shakier.  

Quote

 

"It's more about the whiff of friends and insiders getting preferential treatment, and that is something that really annoys people in this country." 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-greenbelt-doug-ford-polling-1.6960508

 

As it should.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm sure lots care about the greenbelt too but polls and such are pretty consistent, it's mostly the corruption that has people pissed off.

I don't think i've seen any polling that askes specifically "are you mad about the greenbelt or mad about corruption".  Have you actually seen any like that?

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I don't think i've seen any polling that askes specifically "are you mad about the greenbelt or mad about corruption".  Have you actually seen any like that?

Not specifically and neither have you. In the meantime pollsters are consistently  interpreting their results and reporting the same thing, anger over the corruption.

Have you seen any pollsters interpreting and reporting what you're imagining is the case?

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not specifically and neither have you.

lol - Well i knew i hadn't which is why i said i haven't     But if you haven't either then i don't think you can make the claim that the polling has been 'consistent' on the matter, unless you meant consistently non existent.

 

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

In the meantime pollsters are consistently  interpreting their results and reporting the same thing, anger over the corruption.

Ok - where are you seeing all these pollsters reaching the conclusion that it's corruption and definitely not the green space that's got people mad.

I feel like we're about to end up in the same place as we just did on this

Well lets see what you've got to say.

[OftenWrong]

I see no reason to develop pristine land to make high-density housing for hundreds of thousands of "economic refugees", especially while our cities are filled with derelict buildings that are in need of being torn down. Especially these days with all the virtue signalling about being environ-mental. We got city councils declaring "Climate Emergency" to make some scary sounding news headlines, but when the time comes to put your money where your mouth is, it's all gone.

Doug and slugs will have to find some other way to exploit the province resources and make themselves even more rich.

While you people cheer them on...

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I see no reason to develop pristine land to make high-density housing for hundreds of thousands of "economic refugees", especially while our cities are filled with derelict buildings that are in need of being torn down. Especially these days with all the virtue signalling about being environ-mental. We got city councils declaring "Climate Emergency" to make some scary sounding news headlines, but when the time comes to put your money where your mouth is, it's all gone.

Doug and slugs will have to find some other way to exploit the province resources and make themselves even more rich.

While you people cheer them on...

The reason is simple.

Developers don't want to tear down and rebuild buildings. that's expensive as hell and rarely profitable. The only time that happens is when you have a low density area rezoned so that it now allows high rises, and then sometimes it's worth knocking down what's there and building.

So - it's not going to happen.

So if you need the homes, you have to create incentive.  Changing the zoning to allow for building in exchange for them building right away makes them more money than they would have had, so it inspires them to build.

It's not the only way - but you aren't goign to get increased building without  making it worth the developer's time.  Othewise there'd be more building now.

As to it being for 'refugees' - you think that trudeau won't kick naturalized people out of homes to house them if he has to? Don't kid yourself - the gov't will take what it needs out of the market.

So either more homes get built or canadians go homelss, and you don't get more homes than we're gettting right now without a carrot.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

I think we could do with less greenbelt being farmed and more rewilded to benefit wildlife and city dwellers. I don’t see why some of it couldn’t be used for housing as well as long as that process was transparent. 

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I see no reason to develop pristine land to make high-density housing for hundreds of thousands of "economic refugees", especially while our cities are filled with derelict buildings that are in need of being torn down. Especially these days with all the virtue signalling about being environ-mental. We got city councils declaring "Climate Emergency" to make some scary sounding news headlines, but when the time comes to put your money where your mouth is, it's all gone.

Doug and slugs will have to find some other way to exploit the province resources and make themselves even more rich.

While you people cheer them on...

I think you completely misunderstand what the greenbelt is.

The previous liberal government did not even expropriate or buy the land from the owners, they just declared it greenbelt. The owners were basically told they could not sell their own land.

This government allowed a small portion to be sold, by the owners to developers. The owners finally got some return on their investment.  The government in no way exploited province resources, as the government never owned the land,they just enabled the owners to get a return.

I cheer for the landowners that were now able to sell their land.

21 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think we could do with less greenbelt being farmed and more rewilded to benefit wildlife and city dwellers. I don’t see why some of it couldn’t be used for housing as well as long as that process was transparent. 

As long as you pay the owners of the land full market value for that land.

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

I cheer for the landowners that were now able to sell their land.

As long as you pay the owners of the land full market value for that land.

Absolutely. I would offer generous grants to landowners to rewild land as well. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[ExFlyer]

5 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Absolutely. I would offer generous grants to landowners to rewild land as well. 

Generous grants??

Why not full market value?

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

I think you completely misunderstand what the greenbelt is.

I completely understand. Just cause I dont explicitly clarify everything, does not mean lack of understanding. 
I'm saying you people want to make an impact of climate change and loss of biodiversity, then go and make fancy speeches about why we need to tax carbon. Meanwhile come get yer backroom deals, boys. Cheaper than tearing down old direlect buildings full of hazardous materials on brown spaces.

Let us make new brown spaces then...

 

40 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Absolutely. I would offer generous grants to landowners to rewild land as well. 

Around here this is a farce. They don't rewild, they simply pay the fine.

[ExFlyer]

29 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I completely understand. Just cause I dont explicitly clarify everything, does not mean lack of understanding. 
I'm saying you people want to make an impact of climate change and loss of biodiversity, then go and make fancy speeches about why we need to tax carbon. Meanwhile come get yer backroom deals, boys. Cheaper than tearing down old direlect buildings full of hazardous materials on brown spaces.

Let us make new brown spaces then...

 

Around here this is a farce. They don't rewild, they simply pay the fine.

Not sure who the "you people" you claim I am but you are wrong.

My comments are about the expropriation of greenbelt lands from owners and making their land worthless to them.

Also don't know what "yer backroom deals" are.

So no, you really do not understand.

I will accept your apology.

Edited September 10, 2023 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

lol - Well i knew i hadn't which is why i said i haven't

Sure...Lol!

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Ok - where are you seeing all these pollsters reaching the conclusion that it's corruption and definitely not the green space that's got people mad.

In this case, Angus Reid and news stories about ordinary people saying it's the corruption they're pissed off at. Meanwhile you still haven't posted any polls or stories that support what you're claiming that's it's only the loss of greenspace.

You've invested a lot of effort without anything to support your contention that Canadians simply don't care about corruption and that's patently false.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure...Lol!

So - i say i havent - you say i haven't - and now you're having a  tough time believing it

 Kid - you could 'stupid' for the olympics

Quote

In this case, Angus Reid and news stories about ordinary people saying it's the corruption they're pissed off at. Meanwhile you still haven't posted any polls or stories that support what you're claiming that's it's only the loss of greenspace.

No, that never happened. But - hey, if i'm wrong point to it.

Can't can you    - lol.  Just can't help yourself from looking stupid can you What a lying sack of crap you are

 

Quote

You've invested a lot of effort without anything to support your contention that Canadians simply don't care about corruption and that's patently false.

That's not what we're talking about  - we're talking about your specific claim that polls all agree that it's the corruption and not the building in the greenbelt that has people pissed off.

That was YOUR claim - not mine.

And so far you've had to admit that NO polls actually show that     You just lied because you thought it supported your ideology

NOW you claim that the pollsters have analyzed their polls and discovered that was the case. So where's THAT evidence?

Why are you trying to change the topic? Did you lie again and you're desperate to cover it up rather than admit it? Is that the problem?

[herbie]

It's either the corruption or the loss of greenbelts that pisses people off.... it can't be both....

(it's just toooo hard to envision two things at once)

[BeaverFever]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:43 PM, CdnFox said:

Nah.  Public doesn't give a crap about that. If they did trudeau would be long gone and dalton and wynne would have been tossed a hell of a lot earlier.

They care about the "sacred green belt" and facts be damned.

Stupid public.

Caring about things that you personally don’t care about.  How dare they!  Don’t worry one day you’ll get a strongman in power who will teach that dumb a public a lesson and will do the things that you want, whether that good-for-nothing public likes it or not!!

Edited September 11, 2023 by BeaverFever

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Stupid public.

Caring about things that you personally don’t care about.  

Who said i don't care about greenspace?   I never said that at all. Ohhhh right -  that's what your hate filled bigoted ignorant ideology-driven talking points tell you to think about everyone who dares disagree with the left.  We hate nature or some stupid thing.

It's not the public's stupidity here that's the problem, it's yours.

As to the public caring about the greenspace isn't a bad thing, and disliking corruption isn't a bad thing. So we're not crtiisizing them either way.  You seem to think if they're angry because they like the greenspace that makes them bad people.   We're just talking about why they're angry - not that they're evil for being angry.

I am frequently impressed by how somehow every single day you find a new and exciting way to be a little dumber.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Who said i don't care about greenspace?   I never said that at all. Ohhhh right -  that's what your hate filled bigoted ignorant ideology-driven talking points tell you to think about everyone who dares disagree with the left.  We hate nature or some stupid thing.

It's not the public's stupidity here that's the problem, it's yours.

As to the public caring about the greenspace isn't a bad thing, and disliking corruption isn't a bad thing. So we're not crtiisizing them either way.  You seem to think if they're angry because they like the greenspace that makes them bad people.   We're just talking about why they're angry - not that they're evil for being angry.

I am frequently impressed by how somehow every single day you find a new and exciting way to be a little dumber.

Actually I meant to post that as a comment on the OP not as a reply to your post

 

The premise of the OP is that the public ‘worships a golden calf’ because the Greenbelt is popular with the people of Ontario and the Sun commentator just can’t stand that fact 

[CdnFox]

17 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Actually I meant to post that as a comment on the OP not as a reply to your post

Fair enough, we all make mistakes like that

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

It's either the corruption or the loss of greenbelts that pisses people off.... it can't be both....

(it's just toooo hard to envision two things at once)

Of course it's both but right now it's definitely mostly the corruption. It only seems the public has no more attention than a hummingbird when it comes to its politicians but like rust, corruption and deception and the misinformation it breeds just continues building up layer after layer. Now it's thickening crust of mistrust that coats everything in the public's domain. It's completely unsustainable.