Those Damned Illegals

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

People cite businesses that wouldn't be able to survive having to give actual rights to these people.

This is one of the most despicable excuses I often hear.

Like you couldn't find ways to bring in temporary migrant workers through the front door, as per done by many countries, from China, to Canada, and many in between. Really?

Even beyond that - the south embraced slavery for the same reason.  "We won't make as much from our crops if we have to pay a fair wage" is a BAD REASON to exploit people.  And sure - you can do temp workers and get exemptions and still treat them fairly.  CANADA does for heaven's sake, we have tonnes of crop pickers who come here for a season and then go back home to mexico having made  more money than they would have at home, and if they're mistreated or underpaid and anyone finds out about it the penalties can be very harsh.

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Heck, even this allows for modern day slavery, as employees have less rights, and thus are still vulnerable to exploitation. Imagine if undocumented. 

Precisely. The "employee" must live under constant threat of being turned over or abused with limited recourse and nobody to even go to if they are in trouble that they're aware of.

Formalize it, put rules in place that everyone agrees to, then protections to make sure the workers can report abuses and be protected against them.

But NOOOOO - the democrats, supposed guardians of equity and fairness, insist that the only way this works is of we allow unfettered exploitation and today's version of indentured servitude.  How very progressive.

 

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Making it a racial issue. Please. Its a poor policy issue.

If it' s a racial issue then their argument is very similar to "We HAVE to enslave the darkies  - they're too STUPID to survive on their own, they'd starve!"

 

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

I don't think that most people are happy with the large numbers of illegal immigrants.

But the Republican party is lying about illegal Immigration. To send illegal immigrants back more swiftly, we need to change Federal Law. Has Kevin McCarthy even introduced immigration reform legislation? 

The law today says that if you set foot inside the country and say, "I am a political refugee," then you cannot be sent back. 

So change the effin' law.  The dems are in power.  You can't hide behind that.

[Hodad]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Boggles the mind, how one extreme tries hard to pretend that a massive influx of illegal aliens won't hurt an economy. Ignoring the stream of legal immigrants which already are in the market, also being hurt by this.

Sure the odd one in am sure is helpful as most will be under the obligation to keep their head down, and earn money in as much of a low key fashion as possible. 

People cite businesses that wouldn't be able to survive having to give actual rights to these people.

This is one of the most despicable excuses I often hear.

Like you couldn't find ways to bring in temporary migrant workers through the front door, as per done by many countries, from China, to Canada, and many in between. Really?

Heck, even this allows for modern day slavery, as employees have less rights, and thus are still vulnerable to exploitation. Imagine if undocumented. 

You're essentially accepting the reality of sexual exploitation, modern day slavery, just because a few of the others who are lucky enough, end up making a name for themselves.

This isn't the majority, as it should be (which would point to illegal immigration being a success).

Anyone stating this is good, have clearly not seen the dark side that they choose to ignore.

Making it a racial issue. Please. Its a poor policy issue.

There's broad consensus among economists that immigrants (of any status) are a net positive for the economy. 

You were factually incorrect about undocumented immigrants claiming food stamps or other welfare benefits that are only available to citizens or certain classes of immigrants. Perhaps you should consider that you harbor other misconceptions or misunderstandings that lead to your mind being boggled.

There are other arguments to make for or against immigration. There are arguments to make about the optimal levels of immigration. There are humanitarian arguments. There are even cultural arguments. But whatever the case, they should be grounded in reality.

For example, the is no serious "open border" conversation. It literally doesn't exist. But that's language we see used over and over again. Real debates and real policies aren't interesting enough?

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

There's broad consensus among economists that immigrants (of any status) are a net positive for the economy. 

You were factually incorrect about undocumented immigrants claiming food stamps or other welfare benefits that are only available to citizens or certain classes of immigrants. Perhaps you should consider that you harbor other misconceptions or misunderstandings that lead to your mind being boggled.

There are other arguments to make for or against immigration. There are arguments to make about the optimal levels of immigration. There are humanitarian arguments. There are even cultural arguments. But whatever the case, they should be grounded in reality.

For example, the is no serious "open border" conversation. It literally doesn't exist. But that's language we see used over and over again. Real debates and real policies aren't interesting enough?

 

You guys notice how he just skips over all the proofs and arguments that show he's wrong?

This is how the left operates. You try to discuss the issues, they'll just skip the facts you put forward that they don't like and pretend as if those facts just don't exist and carry on.

This is why socialist countries never succeed.

[ironstone]

On 9/5/2023 at 11:16 AM, NYLefty said:

If some how it were possible to completely stop illegal immigration "Which it's Not" this country would collapse. I'm tired of politicians who spend way too much time trying to make racist whites feel warm and fuzzy inside. 

Why is Democrat Eric Adams saying this?

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Why is Democrat Eric Adams saying this?

Must be a DINO

[Legato]

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Must be a DINO

SAUR

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

I don't think that most people are happy with the large numbers of illegal immigrants.

On this, we fully agree.

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

But the Republican party is lying about illegal Immigration.

I also eerily agree with you on this.

One party is playing politics, the other is fear mongering, but neither seem to want to come together to actually resolve the issue.

I think we both know a wall doesn't solve the issue. I mean China is a police state, and even they have tons of illegal people staying there from countries like North Korea, and several other developing countries (most of which are working illegally, or keeping the sex trade humming along, regarding women). If you're that iron tough on your border and illegals still can squeak through, imagine a democratic country.

I see it no different in the US. This isn't a wall issue. Its a policy issue.

If you look at stats, many illegal immigrants are legally landed immigrants who overstayed their visas. The Republican party doesn't seem to want to mention this.

So I see through the smoke and mirrors and game of chicken being played here.

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

The law today says that if you set foot inside the country and say, "I am a political refugee," then you cannot be sent back. 

Am Canadian, so I love immigration. Am also from immigrants parents and a second generation Canadian.

An a legal immigrant, I think either country, but since we're talking the US here, need to get their foot out of their a** and get tough on illegal immigration.

Look into reforms, that don't ignore the needs of your population (IE facilitating visas for people to say, work on a farm). 

What boggles my mind, is the lack of common sense employed in running a country.

I am conservative, but say so reluctantly, because I don't want to be misconstrued as someone who follows Donald Trump blindly, or any talking head who believes in discriminating others for click bait.

Bring back common sense to politics, and I would vote in that person, regardless of party.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Perspektiv

[Rebound]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

On this, we fully agree.

I also eerily agree with you on this.

One party is playing politics, the other is fear mongering, but neither seem to want to come together to actually resolve the issue.

I think we both know a wall doesn't solve the issue. I mean China is a police state, and even they have tons of illegal people staying there from countries like North Korea, and several other developing countries (most of which are working illegally, or keeping the sex trade humming along, regarding women). If you're that iron tough on your border and illegals still can squeak through, imagine a democratic country.

I see it no different in the US. This isn't a wall issue. Its a policy issue.

If you look at stats, many illegal immigrants are legally landed immigrants who overstayed their visas. The Republican party doesn't seem to want to mention this.

So I see through the smoke and mirrors and game of chicken being played here.

Am Canadian, so I love immigration. Am also from immigrants parents and a second generation Canadian.

An a legal immigrant, I think either country, but since we're talking the US here, need to get their foot out of their a** and get tough on illegal immigration.

Look into reforms, that don't ignore the needs of your population (IE facilitating visas for people to say, work on a farm). 

What boggles my mind, is the lack of common sense employed in running a country.

I am conservative, but say so reluctantly, because I don't want to be misconstrued as someone who follows Donald Trump blindly, or any talking head who believes in discriminating others for click bait.

Bring back common sense to politics, and I would vote in that person, regardless of party.

Illegal immigration is a complex issue but the US laws are creating a huge hurdle in removing people.  Trump was able to remove people without due process because of the Covid pandemic, but that excuse has now lapsed.  
 

I think the big hurdle between democrats and republicans is amnesty, especially for the Dreamers — people who were brought into America as young children, who know nothing of their birth country. And I think the issue is they’d rather have conflict than solve the problem. I mean, it’s better to do something than nothing, but the GOP so far won’t compromise, so nothings gotten done. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

penalties can be very harsh

Many farmers in Canada still exploited the living daylights of their temporary workers during covid.

They used it as an excuse to employ draconian measures you see in places like Dubai, such as shoddy sleeping quarters, strict time allowances in terms of them being allowed outside, and blatant violation of their rights by some, right under Canadian noses who were none the wiser.

Many of these people are in legal limbo. They need the jobs, but aren't permanent residents, so being blacklisted would be devastating. So many who want to report behavior, are too petrified to do so.

All this to say, this is what is happening to legal workers.

Imagine being there illegally.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

  How very progressive.

The awkward moment when I realize you already responded to my above point. 

Disregard, but since still relevant to the thread, will leave it there.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

they're too STUPID to survive on their own, they'd starve!

"So we stopped slavery, and threw them a welfare cheque, encouraging endorsement by paying more for single mothers generations ago (increasing single motherhood in the black community, and cyclical poverty by fatherless kids growing up poor, us selling them victimhood vs opportunity, and when they think they can make it...we crush it and provide them with the cheque).

Just don't tell them they are slaves to what they can't afford, as they may get triggered by the irony. They prefer victims."

If they were thinking honestly while creating policies.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

This is how the left operates.

This is literally that, to a perfection. Cringe worthy to watch.

"Shit. He is being logical, quick let's interrupt and move the goal posts!"

 

[Caswell Thomas]

Most if you gave standard homes, some perhaps in so-called mobile homes that never actually go anywhere. I live in the top suite of a hotel. What I have observed of the employees is that they are all illegals and despite the online and television commercials saying , even bragging about their managers inspecting every room for cleanliness and safety, of 7 managers in a row in the past 6 years, none of them inspect anything, they push their employees to get green cards but the employees never do, knowing they can use the same excuse on the next manager. And, they are also all employed in second jobs, and most of those are finding what they steal from guest rooms and your luggage. Its a big business, they are very organized.  Very much like Trumps criminals posing as representatives of the people, but instead are ripping it off for whatever they can steal of our Democracy. Overwhelmingly the support Trump, they recognize a fellow criminal. So..yes, there are some illegals here who make an honest living here, who take jobs no American would do, but there are, just as the Right contends, some who come here just to rip us off and they use America as their criminal career education. If we don't fix our borders, we will continue to populate the criminal rackets with new blood and the ones who will be the victims will be us and our children. So yes, put Trump and his cronies away, but lets not invite others to take his place. 

[CdnFox]

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If they were thinking honestly while creating policies.

Heh

[impartialobserver]

In some states, alabama, being the best example.. They have a negative birth rate and no in migration from other states. Their population growth is almost entirely from immigration (legal or not). It bothers them that their state is seeing changes in the demographic. My home state, Idaho, used to face this reality before the early 90's. Prior to the late 80's to early 90's.. it was a land of stagnant population, exceedingly white, stagnant economy, and a lot of towns that were remarkably average. 

[Deluge]

On 9/9/2023 at 9:07 AM, Hodad said:

For example, the is no serious "open border" conversation. It literally doesn't exist. But that's language we see used over and over again. Real debates and real policies aren't interesting enough?

You see that language "over and over again" because it IS a serious problem. Would you like to go through some articles together? 

We'll start below with the terror list:

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/dhs-terror-watch-list-southern-border/2023/09/15/id/1134641/

[Freddie]

Why do you love illegal immigrants so much? 

[August1991]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:08 AM, NYLefty said:

====

Yep these illegals are doing the jobs that you comfy white boys could never do. They keep our economy HUMMING!!!

Illegals?

The work of ordinary people - 8 hours a day - make this world work.

NYLefty, you are wrong.

[August1991]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:00 AM, NYLefty said:

....

So all this idle right wing gibberish about open borders and caravans is all just hogwash to keep the Nazi Republican base ginned up.

NYLefty,

I'll put you as a non-Trump voter. (Biden simply because he's not Trump.)

Edited September 16, 2023 by August1991

[NYLefty]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

Illegals?

The work of ordinary people - 8 hours a day - make this world work.

NYLefty, you are wrong.

Actually if you stepped out of the confines of your self imposed bubble and knew anything about running a business in modern day America you'd see that I am not.

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

NYLefty,

I'll put you as a non-Trump voter. (Biden simply because he's not Trump.)

Correct.

[theMadArtist]

There are TOO many, getting benefits the Vets don't get- as well as the average citizen..