Dirty Doug’s Den of Deplorable Developer Deals

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The housing minister resigned..

 

This is more crooked than anything Trudeau did, where are the Chuds on this one??? ?

It doesn't even begin to touch the things trudeau has done, it's not even in the same league.  Hell it doesn't even get up to the level that Wynne and McGuinty did     You're going to compare this to attempting to illegally interfere with the justice system or take bribes from a lobbyist?  Give your head a shake.

Oh - and add this to the pile of why nobody thinks you're a conservative.  Conservatives might not like or agree with his actions but they wouldn't be so insanely stupid as to suggest it's worse than what trudueau's done.

[Legato]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The housing minister resigned..

 

This is more crooked than anything Trudeau did, where are the Chuds on this one??? ?

We are all here having a good laugh over that comment. 

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Legato said:

We are all here having a good laugh over that comment. 

That's nice.  Trudeau tried to speak with his justice minister so that Bombardier could compete on overseas contracts.  Definitely wrong.  He accepted a vacation, also wrong.  Played hooky on Trust and Reconciliation day.

 

But he did NOT allow personal friends to benefit directly from public lands designation and receive a kickback...

The RCMP will have the last say I guess.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The housing minister resigned..

This is more crooked than anything Trudeau did, where are the Chuds on this one??? ?

Comparable to SNC Lavalin.  There's a lot of crookedness going on at all levels of government, and the vast majority we never hear about.

Corruption is destroying the US and Canada, and many other western countries.  Corporate influence needs to eliminated by law and prosecuted.  Nobody ever goes to jail.

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's nice.  Trudeau tried to speak with his justice minister so that Bombardier could compete on overseas contracts.  Definitely wrong.  He accepted a vacation, also wrong.  Played hooky on Trust and Reconciliation day.

 

But he did NOT allow personal friends to benefit directly from public lands designation and receive a kickback...

The RCMP will have the last say I guess.

ROFLMAO   well Mr "I'm not a liberal",  he ABSOUTELY DID take kickbacks,  also  the whole SNC (not bombardier) was for his friends, and so was the whole WE scandal where his family got money while he single sourced contracts out to companies for things the feds are already set up to do

He also corruptly tried to twist the courts and justice system which is VASTLY worse.

And if we're talking about ministers how abount Mary Ng?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trade-minister-mary-ng-broke-ethics-rules-over-contract-to-friend-commissioner-rules-1.6192820

Handed out federal contracts to a friend.  Was she forced to step down?

So - you are JUST FINE with all that - no big deal, nothing REALLY wrong with it, you don't demand libeals step down  but using land to build houses - ohhhhh that's just way worse.

Quit apologizing for your liberal masters and quit pretending that they haven't already set the bar so low that this doesn't even register.

[Legato]

53 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's nice.  Trudeau tried to speak with his justice minister so that Bombardier could compete on overseas contracts.  Definitely wrong.  He accepted a vacation, also wrong.  Played hooky on Trust and Reconciliation day.

 

But he did NOT allow personal friends to benefit directly from public lands designation and receive a kickback...

The RCMP will have the last say I guess.

If you actually believe that then you're just a lost cause.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Comparable to SNC Lavalin.  There's a lot of crookedness going on at all levels of government, and the vast majority we never hear about.

Maybe but with SNC, the party in power wasn't directly getting kickbacks.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Legato said:

If you actually believe that then you're just a lost cause.

I guess you could just address what I said instead of walking away from the discussion?

I mean, I'm open to the idea that I might be wrong about this... But you haven't given anything to look at.

[Legato]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I guess you could just address what I said instead of walking away from the discussion?

I mean, I'm open to the idea that I might be wrong about this... But you haven't given anything to look at.

Walking away??? Typical "I know what I am but what are you" cop out.

The above post from CdnFox made all the valid points. I'm not going to repeat them, read his post.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe but with SNC, the party in power wasn't directly getting kickbacks.

How do you know this?

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's nice.  Trudeau tried to speak with his justice minister so that Bombardier could compete on overseas contracts.  Definitely wrong.  He accepted a vacation, also wrong.  Played hooky on Trust and Reconciliation day.

But he did NOT allow personal friends to benefit directly from public lands designation and receive a kickback...

The RCMP will have the last say I guess.

I would like the PM to finally call for a public inquiry on foreign interference.  The refusal is an admission of guilt in my books.

The board of directors at the Trudeau Foundation resigned over a very suspicious Chinese donation a year before JT was first elected.  I don't think most Canadians are naive about our Prime Minister, or the Liberals.  Or the ON PC party.  I have not much faith in the CPC either.

Our system is bought and paid for at every level.  It needs reform.  Our politicians are not ethical.

The ON auditor general said the Housing Minister didn't know what their chief of staff was doing, but i don't really believe it.  The developers are in tight with the PC Party.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

How do you know this?

Nobody alleged it afaik.

 

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Our system is bought and paid for at every level.  It needs reform.  Our politicians are not ethical.

Our system needs process guardians at every level. Volunteer observers who observe, record and report.

[CdnFox]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe but with SNC, the party in power wasn't directly getting kickbacks.

It was.  SNC arranges donaions to the libs.  They're historically one of the libs biggest donors. Even now all their execs donate the max.

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, Legato said:

Walking away??? Typical "I know what I am but what are you" cop out.

The above post from CdnFox made all the valid points. I'm not going to repeat them, read his post.

@Michael Hardner  Knows full well he's wrong.  This little obfuscation dance he's pulling with you is a pretty typical defense of his whenever he paints himself into a corner.  He does the "Look, i'm willing to be reasonable but unfortunately there's no evidence i'll ever accept from you no matter how hard you try but i'll pretend otherwise" thing.

He knows you're right. He knows he's wrong. Hell- he's pretending to have me on 'ignore' again (that flips on and off whenever he can't address one of my points) just so he doesn't have to address the facts i brought up.

OF course trudeau AND the liberals were involved in taking money for a number of their corruption scandals. And so were some of their ministers as i have posted (with links). 

But rather than just admit the truth Mikey is going to dance around no matter what you put in front of him and like most of those on  the left pretend that they haven't seen the evidence clearly put in front of them or change the subject.

LIke i said, he knows he's wrong. Let him live with his shame and don't let him sucker you into his little game.

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It was.  SNC arranges donaions to the libs.  They're historically one of the libs biggest donors. Even now all their execs donate the max.

Personal donations ?  That's pretty small potatoes.  Unless you know about other donations - and I'd be interested to hear.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Personal donations ?  That's pretty small potatoes.  Unless you know about other donations - and I'd be interested to hear.

Ummm  -  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/snc-lavalin-liberal-donors-list-canada-elections-1.5114537

Names of SNC employees, executives behind thousands of dollars in illegal Liberal Party donations revealed. 

 

Please.  You gonna pretend you didn't know about that now?

And its' long been known that they still do this, just in less obvious ways now.

This is a long standing tradition with the libs.  Do you member adscam?  Envelopes of money under the table at restaurants?

How about the WE scandal - where Trudeau single sourced a contract to people who paid his family half a million

https://thepostmillennial.com/trudeau-family-received-over-427-000-from-we-charity-in-payments-and-ammenities

Or the minister i already posted about who used her position for personal gain.

Tell me all about how the libs "Don't take money"  and how "the PC party of ontario is worse".

 

WHile you're at it - do you have even the SLIGHTEST bit of evidence they took ANY money in kickbacks?  Has ANY authority or the like alleged that there were kickbacks like you claim? Is the opposition even saying there are?

[Legato]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

  That's pretty small potatoes. 

So you don't like Jersey Royals. 

[Michael Hardner]

44 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. Ummm  -  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/snc-lavalin-liberal-donors-list-canada-elections-1.5114537

2. Names of SNC employees, executives behind thousands of dollars in illegal Liberal Party donations revealed. 

3. Please.  You gonna pretend you didn't know about that now?

1. 2. 
3. Yep.  I missed it.  Embarrassing, I admit.  Now here's something: I retract my statement about Doug Ford's government.  I'm ok with being dead wrong sometimes.  Thanks for informing me.

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2. 
3. Yep.  I missed it.  Embarrassing, I admit.  Now here's something: I retract my statement about Doug Ford's government.  I'm ok with being dead wrong sometimes.  Thanks for informing me.

Look - i appreciate a guy having the balls  and good ethics to admit when he's wrong and move on and usually i let it go there, but i have to say i'm having a bit of a hard time here.  I mean - i get you might have missed the snc lavlin thing - seems surprising to me even if you didn't know the details because why else would the libs intercede but hey - it was a long time ago  now and not everyone reads everything. So fair enough.

But - you didn't know about WE? That was pretty recent. Yo didn't know about Ma? that just happened recently too.  I feel like you were being a little deliberately blind by choice when you suggested the libs didn't take money for corruption. And that's dismissing the aga khan thing which is very directly a bribe accepted from a lobbier - basically what's being claimed to have happened here.

I feel like you should have known about SOME of those.

[BeaverFever]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:49 PM, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO   well Mr "I'm not a liberal",  he ABSOUTELY DID take kickbacks,  also  the whole SNC (not bombardier) was for his friends, and so was the whole WE scandal where his family got money while he single sourced contracts out to companies for things the feds are already set up to do

He also corruptly tried to twist the courts and justice system which is VASTLY worse.

And if we're talking about ministers how abount Mary Ng?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trade-minister-mary-ng-broke-ethics-rules-over-contract-to-friend-commissioner-rules-1.6192820

Handed out federal contracts to a friend.  Was she forced to step down?

So - you are JUST FINE with all that - no big deal, nothing REALLY wrong with it, you don't demand libeals step down  but using land to build houses - ohhhhh that's just way worse.

Quit apologizing for your liberal masters and quit pretending that they haven't already set the bar so low that this doesn't even register.

No he didn’t take kickbacks, saying otherwise isn’t fact. And the greenbelt deal is comparable in nature to the Trudeau scandals (although he “pressuring” of over SNC was not illegal and was dubious/borderline at best and the Aga Khan plane ride was a clear technical violation but motives were clearly innocent as Aga Khan is a longtime family friend of Pierre Trudeau and he had travelled on his plane many times in his life). 

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

No he didn’t take kickbacks, saying otherwise isn’t fact. es in his life). 

Yes,  he did. And he's admitted it. that's what the aga khan scandal was.  And the libs DID get caught getting money illegally from SNC as i posted.  And that's just what they were caught doing, god knows what they haven't been caught at - they ARE the party of brown envelopes in restaurants.

So right off the bat your lies have already been disproven. What a creep you are. Can't help but lie to protect your glorious leader can you

14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

and the Aga Khan plane ride was a clear technical violation

Accepting bribes in the form of benefits and gifts from an ACTIVE LOBBIEST is NOT 'technical'.  That is in fact the very REASON we have those laws.  And he knew that.  "Oh - here's a few hundred thousand in free vacation money, i hope you'll listen to my client's proposal on Monday favorably...."  family friend or not that's

And his family took half a million from WE, which he single sourced a multi million dollar contract to that the gov't was quite capable of doing on it's own and didn't need to subcontract.

Etc etc etc.

You are pathetic.  You're just living proof that the liberal voter would happily support branding jews if it kept their party in power. No level of corruption or wrongding is too high for you guys to come up with an excuse for.  But ford - where there has not been a single suggestion of kickbacks - ohhh he's terrible and has to go immediately.

What the hell kind of parents did you have that let you grow up thinking that being this way was ok?

 

[BeaverFever]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:43 AM, CdnFox said:

Yes,  he did. And he's admitted it. that's what the aga khan scandal was.  And the libs DID get caught getting money illegally from SNC as i posted.  And that's just what they were caught doing, god knows what they haven't been caught at - they ARE the party of brown envelopes in restaurants.

So right off the bat your lies have already been disproven. What a creep you are. Can't help but lie to protect your glorious leader can you

Accepting bribes in the form of benefits and gifts from an ACTIVE LOBBIEST is NOT 'technical'.  That is in fact the very REASON we have those laws.  And he knew that.  "Oh - here's a few hundred thousand in free vacation money, i hope you'll listen to my client's proposal on Monday favorably...."  family friend or not that's

And his family took half a million from WE, which he single sourced a multi million dollar contract to that the gov't was quite capable of doing on it's own and didn't need to subcontract.

Etc etc etc.

You are pathetic.  You're just living proof that the liberal voter would happily support branding jews if it kept their party in power. No level of corruption or wrongding is too high for you guys to come up with an excuse for.  But ford - where there has not been a single suggestion of kickbacks - ohhh he's terrible and has to go immediately.

What the hell kind of parents did you have that let you grow up thinking that being this way was ok?

 

Nope. You don’t have your fats right. 
 

First of all the Aga Khan was not a lobbyist and did not receive any special treatment from the Trudeau government. Yes the AK foundation is a charity that like many many charities has been receiving some government funds SINCE LONG BEFORE TRUDEAU WAS PM and there was no change to that funding after Trudeau became PM. Trudeau  And the suggestion that he would get something special just in exchange for an airplane ride is just ridiculous. The AK was a longtime friend of Pierre and one of Pierre’s pallbearers at his funeral. JT has been vacationing with the AK since his childhood including riding on the AK’s plane. So you’ve got an apparent “quid” but no “pro quo” and the supposed “quid” is something that’s been going on privately since childhood.  That said traveling in a private aircraft is a clear violation of ethics rules even though there was no ill intent and it was a rookie mistake by the neophytes JT brought into office with him and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that JT himself might be the over-entitled type who is hard to say no to anyway  That is generally true of most political and business leaders anyway but I get the sense it might be especially true for JT

As for WE scandal: it definitely is the most serious of the JT scandals and seems inappropriate but if it was “a fact” that it was “bribery” which is a crime we would have charges and a conviction   There’s a lot that I don’t like about JT personally and his inner circle more generally. You can say “in your opinion” it was bribery but opinions aren’t facts and until there’s a charge let alone a conviction its not a fact.  We all know that in every democracy and under every political party these kind of  insider arrangements happen and are tolerated under the rules and neither party fixes them when in office because the party in power always wants to work with like-minded people they know and trust rather then than strangers who might challenge their ideology or blow the whistle. Incestuous relationships abound: lobbyists and donors have family members working for cabinet ministers and MP/MPPs and vice-versa 
 

Meanwhile as criminal charges pile up against republicans south of the border somehow the conservatives still say “it’s a fact” that their innocent….once again an inability to differentiate between facts and opinions and not grounded in reality

[BeaverFever]

Speaking of which more incestuous dealings between Ford government and developers comes to light

 

Ford government’s appointee to Greenbelt Foundation had family ties to developer


KAREN HOWLETT and JILL MAHONEY
The Globe and Mail
Published September 8, 2023

Updated 1 hour ago


A property at 12045 McCowan Rd in Stouffville, Ont., on the right, was removed from the Greenbelt and proposed as housing development by the Ontario government. Fred Lum/The Globe and Mail


The former vice-chair of a foundation set up to safeguard the Greenbelt, who was appointed to its board by Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s government, has close family ties to one of the select group of developers whose land was opened up for housing construction in the environmentally protected region.
The government appointed Susan McGovern in 2019 to the board of the Greenbelt Foundation, which describes itself on its website as “the only organization solely dedicated to ensuring the Greenbelt remains permanent, protected and prosperous.” Her three-year term ended on Nov. 20.
Ms. McGovern’s brother and husband operate The Rice Group, one of the handful of developers whose land Mr. Ford’s government removed from the Greenbelt last year, making the property no longer subject to the protected zone’s restrictions on building.
She is the sister of Michael Rice, the chief executive officer of The Rice Group, who during Ms. McGovern’s term as vice-chair lobbied the Ontario government to allow development on the company’s Greenbelt land. That lobbying was detailed in a report released last week by Ontario’s Integrity Commissioner. Ms. McGovern’s husband, John McGovern, is the company’s senior vice-president of policy and planning.


 

…In interviews, the foundation’s chief executive officer and its chair said they were unaware that Ms. McGovern’s brother had been lobbying the government on Greenbelt development while she was vice-chair – an activity at cross-purposes with the foundation’s mandate. “We certainly appreciate the optics of these circumstances,” foundation CEO Edward McDonnell said. “We can appreciate why people would look askance at it.” In January, after Ms. McGovern left the foundation, she became an executive adviser to Peter Bethlenfalvy, Ontario’s Finance Minister. She, her brother and her husband did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

…Ms. McGovern’s brother, Mr. Rice, purchased 280 hectares of Greenbelt land in the township of King, north of Toronto, for $80-million on May 3, 2022, according to the Integrity Commissioner’s report. The sale closed on Sept. 15, 2022, the report says. On Sept. 14, the night before the closing, Mr. Rice and Mr. Amato attended a gala sponsored by a development industry association. During the event, Mr. Rice mentioned that parcel of land to Mr. Amato, describing it “as a good candidate for removal from the Greenbelt,” the report says. Mr. Rice met with Mr. Amato later that month and gave him a document containing a rationale for removing the land, along with a map of the area, according to the report. John McGovern, Ms. McGovern’s husband, confirmed to the Integrity Commissioner that he had “pulled together this package of information” for Mr. Rice’s meeting with Mr. Amato, which took place on either Sept. 27 or Sept. 28, the report says. The Greenbelt Foundation held a board meeting on Oct. 3, which Ms. McGovern attended. She did not disclose anything about her brother’s connection to land in the Greenbelt or his lobbying, Mr. McDonnell, the foundation CEO, told The Globe and Mail.

….

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ford-governments-appointee-to-greenbelt-foundation-had-family-ties-to/

Edited September 8, 2023 by BeaverFever

[BeaverFever]

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s approval dips to historic low in wake of Greenbelt controversy
 

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s approval ratings have dipped to a historic low following the release of two bombshell Greenbelt reports, according to a new poll released Friday morning.

A survey by Angus Reid suggests that fewer than three in 10 Ontarians, or about 28 per cent, approve of the premier.

This marks a five-point drop from Ford’s approval ratings in June, and represents the lowest rating he has ever received since being elected in 2018.

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More than half of respondents also said they believe the premier should resign in the wake of the Greenbelt controversy. This included about a quarter of respondents who identified as Progressive Conservative voters.

Ford’s support among PC voters has also dropped, from 80 per cent approval in June to 63 per cent approval in September.

A poll by Angus Reid shows that approval for Ontario Premier Doug Ford has dropped drastically over the last few months.

The online poll of 799 Ontario adults was conducted between Aug. 31 and Sept. 6, starting one day after a damning report by the province’s integrity commissionerfound that a lack of supervision and leadership led to certain developers with ties to the housing ministry gaining an advantage in the selection process.

It was also conducted after an auditor general’s report found the process for selecting the 15 Greenbelt sites to open for development was deeply biased and flawed.

Steve Clark resigned from his position as housing minister following the release of both reports. His chief of staff, who was the individual at the center of the decision-making, has also resigned.

The fallout hasn’t stopped the Progressive Conservatives from moving forward with their plans to develop those sections of the Greenbelt. In fact, the government appears to be leaning into their decisions, pledging to re-evaluate all two million acres of the protected land, as well as hundreds of applications for land removal.

The majority of survey respondents—about 71 per cent—said they believed the Greenbelt should be protected and should not be open for development. A little more than half of PC voters who responded to the survey said the same.

About 22 per cent of respondents said the province needs more housing, even if it means developing the Greenbelt.

An Angus Reid Poll released on Sept. 8 shows the majority of Ontarians believe the Greenbelt should be protected.

The majority of respondents also said they believe the Ford government did give preferential treatment to certain developers. About 21 per cent said they weren’t sure while only six per cent said they did not believe the PCs favoured developers.

LIBERALS AND NDP NOT GAINING TRACTION

Despite lower approval rates, the PCs appear to still have a significant lead over their opposition.

The Angus Reid poll suggests that about 43 per cent of Ontarians still don’t have an opinion about the new NDP Leader Marit Stiles.

About 38 per cent of Ontarians say they would still vote for the Progressive Conservatives, with about 28 per cent saying they would vote NDP and about 22 per cent pledging support for the Liberals.

The Ontario Liberals are in the early days of a leadership race. More than half of party voters told Angus Reid they aren’t sure who they find most appealing among the five registered candidates.

However, Mississauga Mayor Bonnie Crombie appears to be the one with the most name recognition.

The margin of error for the Angus Reid poll is about +/- three percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
 

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-premier-doug-ford-s-approval-dips-to-historic-low-in-wake-of-greenbelt-controversy-1.6552625