Gas Gouge Again

[Perspektiv]

57 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

  Again, what is your solution for the folks that need fuel to be able to get to work?  People will need

Its not about solutions. Its about virtue signaling about the use of fossil fuels.

1 hour ago, herbie said:

But I guess I'm the only one that gives a shit about getting ripped off, everyone else simply wants to gripe about the govt.

Do you you need to drive, daily? I don't think you do.

If you did, you wouldn't be considering these increases "pennies", and would see the overall cost to you, since you would be feeling it, daily.

Most people will be annoyed that the tax brought about the increase. Again, the principle is worst.

You just come out of a very mentally draining outbreak, many feared losing their jobs, their houses. Come back, and this is when you want to virtue signal about green initiatives vs prioritizing the economy?

This is the perfect time to add a burden to people who can barely make ends meet?

Add insult to injury, to virtue signal divisive messages, almost implying that anyone against this, isn't wanting progress?

No. We all want progress. How about you right the ship first, before focusing on making it prettier.

Hard to think green, when your bank accounts, loans and lines of credit you had to take out to stay afloat, are showing red everywhere. 

[Aristides]

We get gouged by both oil companies and governments.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Aside from the fact you're wrong

No I'm not wrong, Canada's natural resources belong to Canadians.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Aside from the fact you're wrong (that was trudeau's thinking in the 70's and he destroyed the industry trying to milk it dry),  all that would do is force the fuel companies to raise their prices to consumers.  Which you would then biatch about.

Remember - carbon tax is applied to EVERYTHING and unlike most taxes it's cumulative, not just applied to the end user.  So if he raises it two cents - there's a lot more two cents's in there than you think,

A couple of points:

our resources don’t just belong to us.  They belong to future generations.

We need to cut greenhouse gas emissions dramatically. The carbon tax is an attempt to begin that process.

In order to provide the services Canadians want, governments need money. The problem is, everyone wants something for nothing. We want the services but we don’t want to pay the taxes. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

A couple of points:

our resources don’t just belong to us.  They belong to future generations.

Not really. The country as a whole will be inherited by future generations but if we were to take your logic at heart we could never harvest the wealth because we'd be selling 'future generations' property.

If trudaeu can pass on a debt the size of a small moon to future generations and demand they pay for his excess today, then they really have no 'rights' to anything.

Quote

We need to cut greenhouse gas emissions dramatically. The carbon tax is an attempt to begin that process.

It never was.  BC had already proven it didn't work and economists had already explained why it won't.  The initial models looked promising but energy consumtion didn't prove to be anywhere near as 'elastic' as they'd hoped. And the liberals knew that

It's a tax,  plain and simple. The liberals needed more money and the carbon tax puts a lot of that right into their pockets.

Quote

In order to provide the services Canadians want, governments need money. The problem is, everyone wants something for nothing. We want the services but we don’t want to pay the taxes. 

No, people are willing to pay for what they need for the most part.  The problem is that trudeau promises to give them more than they pay for  for free using liberal money magic.  So people say Oh - well that's great, we'll take it then even tho it's not services we need.  I think the gov't SHOULD pay for lesbian dance theory Seeing as the money is free according to Justin". . 

But there is no free money. And at the end of the day guess who's going to get clobbered the worst = the poor, the disabled, the elderly, all the vunerable people that the left supposedly cares about but really doesn't.

Which is why it's so infuriating to watch. If we stuck to only the services that gov't SHOULD provide and did so efficiently we could pay less tax AND run a surplus.  Excluding the debt payments we're going to have of course.

It's been close to a decade.  Pollution and GHG's are up. Quality of life is down.  Debt is cripplingly high. Inflation is up.  Interest rates are up. Crime is up. National division and distrust is up.

Is that the 'extra services' you think we should be paying taxes for?

Reduce tax, reduce "Services" to what matters, cut the civil service, scrap the "carbon tax" and then we can talk about what we want to do and what we should be paying for.

[myata]

And why I wonder all major chains, all three of them had exactly same price, to a cent driving by yesterday? A miracle coincidence, rare alignment of planets, in a market" economy?

Monopoly ombudsh@ck, satisfied smiling: the salary's been good, benefits even better! No thanks needs. Fake economy, facade country. The ride will not go on forever, you know.

[Legato]

The government encourages gas price increases, the tax revenue increases with it.

Canada got carbon taxes and the temp' went up, Must be some sort of reverse logic in there.

[Queenmandy85]

Cdnfox, since no government could get elected on a platform you propose, let alone survive in office, you need an unelected government to force rationing and a reduced standard of living.

It is my understanding that the carbon tax in BC has had a positive effect. 
Debt can be paid down. Finance Minister Martin made a sizeable dent on the debt after inheriting Wilson’s ballooning deficits, only to have the Harper government fritter away all the progress.

In order to pay down the deficits, governments need to raise taxes. 
All this is moot now because the cost of responding to the climate crisis will dwarf anything we have ever experienced. Over time, the revenues from transitioning to a global nuclear power network will gradually pay down the debt. Unfortunately, we will also be adjusting to an influx of tens of millions of climate refugees.

apologizing for the rambling. Need coffee…

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Legato said:

Canada got carbon taxes and the temp' went up, Must be some sort of reverse logic in there.

Carbon tax has completely failed to affect the climate in the slighest, WHICH IS PROOF THAT THEREFORE WE NEED MOAR OF IT TO SAVE THE PLANET!!"

-Lefties,  probably.

[Zeitgeist]

It’s such a scam.  None of these existence taxes will reduce climate change. All we’re doing is destroying Canadian living standards/quality of life and shipping our industries to China and jurisdictions that don’t have to follow our masochistic rules.  Even the US Dems aren’t stupid enough to impose carbon taxes on Americans.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Queenmandy85]

People complain about carbon taxes and then complain about the deficit. How do you cut the deficit without revenues? Governments can only cut services so much. Provinces need transfers for the services they provide. On this forum we say we need a viable military but even here, nobody is willing to pay for it.  The economy is being slammed on one side by the pandemic and on the other side with the war. 
Soon, we will have to build hundreds of nuclear power plants, and rebuild and electrify the rail network. 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

People complain about carbon taxes and then complain about the deficit. How do you cut the deficit without revenues? Governments can only cut services so much. Provinces need transfers for the services they provide. On this forum we say we need a viable military but even here, nobody is willing to pay for it.  The economy is being slammed on one side by the pandemic and on the other side with the war. 
Soon, we will have to build hundreds of nuclear power plants, and rebuild and electrify the rail network. 

Drop out of the Ukraine morass.  Problem solved.  

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

People complain about carbon taxes and then complain about the deficit. How do you cut the deficit without revenues?

You cut waste. We don't need the cbc.  We currently have more public servants per capita than any other time in history yet worse service than most of history. Allow that number to reduce by attrition and use web technology and other automation to actually improve service at a much lower cost.  Something the heads of many departments such as the passport offices were screaming about for years.

then you stimulate business.  You attract business to canada - YOU BUILD FRIKKIIN PIPELINES TO SERVICE GERMANY AND ASIA WITH NATURAL GAS AS THEY"VE BEEN BEGGING.  You make it desirable to come here. 

Business grows - revenues go up.

You control immigration - you really stick to the point system and make sure that the people coming here will add value and will be able to earn well and fill jobs we need.  Not McJobs.  Again - a smaller number of higher earners means less demand on infrastructure and higher gov't revenues.

 

None of this is hard.  All of this is understood and well known and time proven.  You CANNOT tax a nation into prosperity - i'm sorry but you just can't.

[Queenmandy85]

So, are you advocating an assassination against Putin? The only way out is for Ukraine to defeat Russia. A negotiated peace will not work. Russia will just re-arm and try again. Appeasment didn’t stop Hitler. It won’t stop Putin. Canada’s role in the war is not the problem. Whether we support Ukrainian independence and democracy or side with Russian tyranny. Or, if I understand you correctly, we should turn our backs on the people fighting against tyranny on our behalf because if Russia is successful in crushing Ukrainian democracy and independence, she will do it to someone else an eventually we will be at war with Russia.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Queenmandy85 said:

So, are you advocating an assassination against Putin? The only way out is for Ukraine to defeat Russia. A negotiated peace will not work. Russia will just re-arm and try again. Appeasment didn’t stop Hitler. It won’t stop Putin. Canada’s role in the war is not the problem. Whether we support Ukrainian independence and democracy or side with Russian tyranny. Or, if I understand you correctly, we should turn our backs on the people fighting against tyranny on our behalf because if Russia is successful in crushing Ukrainian democracy and independence, she will do it to someone else an eventually we will be at war with Russia.

I feel like maybe that was posted in teh wrong spot?  LOL - i've done that .

Anyway - as far as russia goes ti's simple - they're taking a major loss and massive embarrasment if the war ended today, never mind if they lose more land.   Make it as painful and devistating for them and their economy as possible, and then arm ukraine to the teeth after.  The russians won't want to pick that fight for a very very long time

[Queenmandy85]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You cut waste. We don't need the cbc.  We currently have more public servants per capita than any other time in history yet worse service than most of history. Allow that number to reduce by attrition and use web technology and other automation to actually improve service at a much lower cost.  Something the heads of many departments such as the passport offices were screaming about for years.

then you stimulate business.  You attract business to canada - YOU BUILD FRIKKIIN PIPELINES TO SERVICE GERMANY AND ASIA WITH NATURAL GAS AS THEY"VE BEEN BEGGING.  You make it desirable to come here. 

Business grows - revenues go up.

You control immigration - you really stick to the point system and make sure that the people coming here will add value and will be able to earn well and fill jobs we need.  Not McJobs.  Again - a smaller number of higher earners means less demand on infrastructure and higher gov't revenues.

 

None of this is hard.  All of this is understood and well known and time proven.  You CANNOT tax a nation into prosperity - i'm sorry but you just can't.

I like the CBC. 
Rather than building pipelines, build reactors around the world. We have the Saudi Arabia of nuclear fuel in western Canada. 
I agree with you on immigration. We need to reduce our population.

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I like the CBC. 
 

pay for it out of your own pocket then.  Nobody's saying it has to be shut down, just defunded.  If you want to keep it then you and others like you will have to foot the bill same as any other media company.

Quote

Rather than building pipelines, build reactors around the world. We have the Saudi Arabia of nuclear fuel in western Canada. 

We can do both.   Sadly, environmentalists have made nuclear power a real bugaboo and fight against it to this very day but in time we can gait public support. I mean - germany desperately needs our LNG because they were forced by environmentalist to shut their reactors down. We have to get past those people.

In the meantime we can sell natural gas to places that need it. 

Quote

I agree with you on immigration. We need to reduce our population.

Well at the least we need to reduce and refine our population growth. We can't bring in more people than we can house or care for.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Sadly, environmentalists have made nuclear power a real bugaboo and fight against it to this very day but in time we can gait public support.

It was the release of nuclear waste and leaks into the environment due to poor management and practices of nuclear power producers and regulators that scared the bejeezus out of the public. You're shooting the messengers for bringing this to light.  If you want more public support you need more public trust, if you want more public trust you need more transparency.

Transparency btw works both ways, i.e. when it comes to activists trying to influence government officials.

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It was the release of nuclear waste and leaks into the environment due to poor management and practices of nuclear power producers and regulators that scared the bejeezus out of the public. You're shooting the messengers for bringing this to light. 

Yeah - that might have been a real argument in 1960...  more than half a century later, not so much.  One might have sympathy at the time but nowadays people screaming "Burn the witches" are not really just 'the messenger', they're !diots.

Like i said - they JUST shut down germany's reactors a few years ago - reactors that have never had a leak or a problem.  And the modern reactors are 10 times safer and cleaner even than those.  The amount of unusable nuclear material per year is about the size of a grapefruit. Pretty simple to secure.

In short - nuclear power has been safe and clean since before these losers started jumping on the climate change bandwagon and the latest tech is affordable and extremely mature.  and it's the ONLY clean renewable we've got that could actually replace carbon.  Yet they STILL rail against it.

As noted it's more about virtue signalling for that kind.

[myata]

On 8/5/2023 at 10:36 PM, Aristides said:

We get gouged by both oil companies and governments.

Exactly. The love of monopoly. This is everywhere. Not about carbon tax (the need to do something facing an existential crisis predictably turned into another money grab by entrenched self-absorbed governments).

No: it's about us, the country. Mentally lazy, complacent, boring and predictable, fearing and struggling to avoid any meaningful change. And the monopolies, of every kind simply love that. Works great for them. Keep it coming Joe. Here's some beavertales to keep you happy.