Canadian Defence News

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

I don't dispute that there is a lot of control but the state does not own the companies. They have a stock market where you can buy shares in Chinese companies if you want. It is not a communist system, it's a Chinese system.    

Canada is not attempting to do the same thing.

It's a market socialist system. Variations on that have been quite popular recently and going back to ww2.  But you're correct, while it's very similar to communism in many ways it's still just socialism it's not communism.

[I am Groot]

On 2/18/2024 at 5:38 PM, ExFlyer said:

anada right now, especially from Russian bombers and missiles.

Suppose Trump is elected next year and announces that since we couldn't be bothered paying more than 1% to defend ourselves then clearly we're not worth defending so he's not going to do it. Then Russia, which, you might note, does not like us much, starts sending its buzz bombers much deeper into our northern territories, daring us to do something about it. Putin pushes wherever he sees an open door. And we're a screen door hanging by one hinge.

[Aristides]

26 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Suppose Trump is elected next year and announces that since we couldn't be bothered paying more than 1% to defend ourselves then clearly we're not worth defending so he's not going to do it. Then Russia, which, you might note, does not like us much, starts sending its buzz bombers much deeper into our northern territories, daring us to do something about it. Putin pushes wherever he sees an open door. And we're a screen door hanging by one hinge.

Having Russians in our Arctic would not be in America's interest, although it is hard to separate Trump's and Putin's interests.

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Suppose Trump is elected next year and announces that since we couldn't be bothered paying more than 1% to defend ourselves then clearly we're not worth defending so he's not going to do it. Then Russia, which, you might note, does not like us much, starts sending its buzz bombers much deeper into our northern territories, daring us to do something about it. Putin pushes wherever he sees an open door. And we're a screen door hanging by one hinge.

What if, what if, what if, ?

What if I was clairvoyant, I would be a millionaire LOL

So, are you saying we should spend the billions of dollars on missile defence and have them sit and rot and become obsolete like the last time we had missile defence (Bomarc)?

With limited money, choices and decisions (personnel notwithstanding) need to be made.

So, I am not sure what you are saying, implying or asking.

[ExFlyer]

21 hours ago, blackbird said:

The most powerful nation on earth can not stop every attack.  But their response was fitting.  They dealt with a lot of al Qaida terrorists for years after 9-11 in Iraq and Afghanistan and eliminated Bin Laden as well, the terrorist leader.

So, a 20 year war in Afghanistan and 2,324 U.S. military personnel, 3,917 U.S. contractors and 1,144 allied troop and 20,000+ were wounded is a "fitting" response?

So, a 8 year war in Iraq and 4400 dead and 30,000 + were wounded is a "fitting" response?

[I am Groot]

48 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

What if, what if, what if, ?

Come on, what is military planning all about if not 'what if'?

Military planners don't just plan for what they think will happen, but what might happen, not what they think an enemy will do but what they could do.

48 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

So, are you saying we should spend the billions of dollars on missile defence and have them sit and rot and become obsolete like the last time we had missile defence (Bomarc)?

I'm saying that the ultimate purpose of having a military is to deter the enemy from attacking in the first place. Are we going to station F18s or eventually F35s up north? Nope. It's over 2000km between Cold Lake and Whitehorse. Further if you want to get all the way to the northern edge of Canada. I'm pretty sure the Russians know just how long it takes for one to get up there. Hell, if they really wanted to taunt us they could fly bears over Whitehorse and be long gone before an F18 could make it up there. A few Patriot batteries sitting around here and there would end that scenario.

Of course, it would be nice if we had a military base or two up north aside from Alert to actually demonstrate our sovereignty over the far north.

And no, I don't expect Russia to try to take over Whitehorse. I think the Americans would have to react to that as a threat to them, no matter what Trump thought. But the further north fringes of our territory, especially the areas we claim as our waters and Russia claims as theirs - that could cause some bumping and pushing. And we've got nothing whatsoever to bump or push back with. 

 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Come on, what is military planning all about if not 'what if'?

Military planners don't just plan for what they think will happen, but what might happen, not what they think an enemy will do but what they could do.

I'm saying that the ultimate purpose of having a military is to deter the enemy from attacking in the first place. Are we going to station F18s or eventually F35s up north? Nope. It's over 2000km between Cold Lake and Whitehorse. Further if you want to get all the way to the northern edge of Canada. I'm pretty sure the Russians know just how long it takes for one to get up there. Hell, if they really wanted to taunt us they could fly bears over Whitehorse and be long gone before an F18 could make it up there. A few Patriot batteries sitting around here and there would end that scenario.

Of course, it would be nice if we had a military base or two up north aside from Alert to actually demonstrate our sovereignty over the far north.

And no, I don't expect Russia to try to take over Whitehorse. I think the Americans would have to react to that as a threat to them, no matter what Trump thought. But the further north fringes of our territory, especially the areas we claim as our waters and Russia claims as theirs - that could cause some bumping and pushing. And we've got nothing whatsoever to bump or push back with. 

 

Military Ops planning does paper wars all the time. Thing is, the paper wars are planned with what we have so, they are just deterrents until America comes to the rescue.

Alert (and I have been there) is on Ellesmere Island and is a listening post. They have guns but only to shoot polar bears wolves and foxes LOL We do have some forward operation bases (FOB's) up there for our fighters. Then of course, we have our Northern Rangers with their Royal Enfielsd rifles to protect us till we can get there

We do have underwater listening devices under all the ice  we consider in Canadian territory and finally, we have satellite surveillance.

Again, I am not sure what point you are trying to make but we are not a country that has an effective Military. This is not new nor is it unknown. We chose that Conservative and Liberal governments alike feel that social programs are far more important and neglect the Military. Sh it, we need $10 daycare more than we need bulletproof vests for the soldiers we send to other countries at war.

What I am saying is that a ballistic missile air defence does not make sense in Canad. We have the Americans . We cannot buy ,not afford let alone train and test fire. At $1.5 billion (USD) for a Patriot battery?? (or more), we would just look at them, like we did with Bomarcs and after 15 years (in 1972). We gave them back to the US. By the way, we had them stationed in North Bay Ontario. Did you know the range on Bomarcs was only 450 miles??? We could have shot down something just north of Moononee.

 

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Come on, what is military planning all about if not 'what if'?

It's usually a consequence of poor political planning for dealing with what is or was.

I'm pretty sure more than a few military planners have wondered what if politicians could have done a better job.

[CdnFox]

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's usually a consequence of poor political planning for dealing with what is or was.

 

Military planning is a result of poor poltiical planning?  That's your position?

You wouldln't say that being prepared militarily is GOOD political planning?

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Military planning is a result of poor poltiical planning?  That's your position?

There was more to my position than that.

Quote

You wouldln't say that being prepared militarily is GOOD political planning?

No I'd put it that way too.

There'd be a lot less need to repeat ourselves around here if you did a better job of understanding English.

[ExFlyer]

31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Military planning is a result of poor poltiical planning?  That's your position?

You wouldln't say that being prepared militarily is GOOD political planning?

He is right. The Military is not political. It can only react to todays situations which is normally driven by the country's politicians.

The "plans" are all living fluid documents.

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There was more to my position than that.

That was the only line.  If there was more to it, you hid it well

Quote

No I'd put it that way too.There'd be a lot less need to repeat ourselves around here if you did a better job of understanding English.

You need to remember that WE can't hear the voices in your head, so you need to actually write that stuff down for us to understand what you mean.  

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That was the only line.  If there was more to it, you hid it well.

C'mon....you really think people believe you're actually that fu cking stupid?

Okay, have it your way. Do you have as difficult a time finding your own ass?

Edited February 21, 2024 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

44 minutes ago, eyeball said:

C'mon....you really think people believe you're actually that fu cking stupid?

 

I am 100 percent sure they know you are.  And here we are yet again and you still haven't said what you meant.

Quote

Okay, have it your way. Do you have as difficult a time finding your own ass?

No, your right there.  Oh... MY ass.... sorry.  

 

So- i  take it by the fact you still can't articulate your point that you never actually had one like you claimed?  Just trying to avoid admitting that?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

I am 100 percent sure they know you are.

Except they know the question was about you. You mean to say really are that stupid?

Quote

So- i  take it by the fact you still can't articulate your point that you never actually had one like you claimed?  Just trying to avoid admitting that?

Nope it was most certainly a good point as evidenced by your inability to deal with it.

[CdnFox]

Just now, eyeball said:

Except they know the question was about you. You mean to say really are that stupid?

 

Nope, try again. Worst attempt at gas-lighting ever    Have you ever thought of appearing on 'are you smarter than  a 5th grader"?  you'd have the audience in stitches.

Quote

Nope it was most certainly a good point as evidenced by your inability to deal with it.

Wasn't even a point at all. And you still cant' articulate it

And you wonder why people are fleeing the left -  would anyone want to be associated with the likes of you?  You can't even say what you're talking about .

You realize every time you do this you hammer home to people who already know that you're dishonest. And you're SHOCKED'! when people call you out on it.

[eyeball]

Just now, CdnFox said:

You realize every time you do this you hammer home to people who already know that you're dishonest. And you're SHOCKED'! when people call you out on it.

I get it now, you're not an artificially intelligent bot you're an artificially oppositional one. And a very diametrical one at that.

You've failed the test.

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I get it now, you're not an artificially intelligent bot you're an artificially oppositional one. And a very diametrical one at that.

 

You've failed the test.

LOL -  well if the test was an english test you've failed the whole course  

You've already trashed your credibility - must you trash your intellectual reputation as well? Tsk tsk.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL -  well if the test was an english test you've failed the whole course

Nope, it's a Turing test. You suck, but practice makes perfect so....

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nope, it's a Turing test. You suck, but practice makes perfect so....

oh - the wit! The imagination! You've got me wriggling in the grip of your logic! I will now take the next 18 hours to re-evaluate my life!!!

LOL - what a pathetic loon you are. You just fail everything.

[Army Guy]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:25 AM, ExFlyer said:

What if, what if, what if, ?

What if I was clairvoyant, I would be a millionaire LOL

So, are you saying we should spend the billions of dollars on missile defence and have them sit and rot and become obsolete like the last time we had missile defence (Bomarc)?

With limited money, choices and decisions (personnel notwithstanding) need to be made.

So, I am not sure what you are saying, implying or asking.

We are going to spend 36 billion over the next 10 years upgrading our northern defenses according to the liberals, there was talk about a BMD, but like everything the liberals say one has to keep an open mind... I don't think this is a project we can put off, this is Americas number one problem with Canada...

So we as a nation are going to invest something up north...or face being kicked out of defensive agreements, and then Canadians will either open the gates and say fu*k it , or face having to pay the entire bill which is way way more than we pay now...I don't understand why Canadians can't see that, why they are so content on letting uncle sam pay for most of our defense...are we that cheap, or out of touch with reality...

Every day i become more convinced that Canada needs trump to sort us out...to pay our share of defense, and our global reasonability or face being cut off from the rest of the world...

[ExFlyer]

27 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

We are going to spend 36 billion over the next 10 years upgrading our northern defenses according to the liberals, there was talk about a BMD, but like everything the liberals say one has to keep an open mind... I don't think this is a project we can put off, this is Americas number one problem with Canada...

So we as a nation are going to invest something up north...or face being kicked out of defensive agreements, and then Canadians will either open the gates and say fu*k it , or face having to pay the entire bill which is way way more than we pay now...I don't understand why Canadians can't see that, why they are so content on letting uncle sam pay for most of our defense...are we that cheap, or out of touch with reality...

Every day i become more convinced that Canada needs trump to sort us out...to pay our share of defense, and our global reasonability or face being cut off from the rest of the world...

Like everything the liberals have promised lately, it is for after the next election, they get booted an all is gone

I have not heard any talk about BMD and as I mentioned before, the cost of one Patriot at $1.5 billion (USD) for a Patriot battery?? (or more), it is not in our cards.

Like I said before, Canadians are more concerned with $10 day care and safe injections sites and free drugs  and for addicts and free tampons and on and on.

Trump ain't gonna embarrass us into paying for military. Conservatives and Liberals alike have been threatened for many decades and we are still not living up to our obligations. NDP want to do away with the Military and Bloc, well, they are Bloc LOL

We are already being left out of agreements (AUKUS) between Australia/US and Britain in the Pacific.  We cannot even get a seat on the UN Security Council.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Like everything the liberals have promised lately, it is for after the next election, they get booted an all is gone

I have not heard any talk about BMD and as I mentioned before, the cost of one Patriot at $1.5 billion (USD) for a Patriot battery?? (or more), it is not in our cards.

Like I said before, Canadians are more concerned with $10 day care and safe injections sites and free drugs  and for addicts and free tampons and on and on.

Trump ain't gonna embarrass us into paying for military. Conservatives and Liberals alike have been threatened for many decades and we are still not living up to our obligations. NDP want to do away with the Military and Bloc, well, they are Bloc LOL

We are already being left out of agreements (AUKUS) between Australia/US and Britain in the Pacific.  We cannot even get a seat on the UN Security Council.

Having it all start over might not be a bad thing, look at the ballooning ship project...We should tell irving to pack up their shi8 and have someone else build those ships...

It was in the announcement of upgrading our northern defenses...Patriots are not part of the system, a much more robust system id used with rockets much more capable than patriot system, i'm only guessing but much more expensive than patriot systems...the 35 billion dollar price tag should give you an idea on how expensive they are...

Maybe or maybe not but there are consequences from being dropped by these defensive agreements...and yes we have been presured politily to get our shi* together, trump is not being polite he is being serious, we will see what the consequences are... but when we have to start paying for it all ourselves it is going to cost a shi* ton more than we pay now....Canadians will sit up and take notice...I don't think the average Canadian knows what these Defensive agreements give us access to...not only militarily, but economical as well....

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Army Guy said:

Having it all start over might not be a bad thing, look at the ballooning ship project...We should tell irving to pack up their shi8 and have someone else build those ships...

It was in the announcement of upgrading our northern defenses...Patriots are not part of the system, a much more robust system id used with rockets much more capable than patriot system, i'm only guessing but much more expensive than patriot systems...the 35 billion dollar price tag should give you an idea on how expensive they are...

Maybe or maybe not but there are consequences from being dropped by these defensive agreements...and yes we have been presured politily to get our shi* together, trump is not being polite he is being serious, we will see what the consequences are... but when we have to start paying for it all ourselves it is going to cost a shi* ton more than we pay now....Canadians will sit up and take notice...I don't think the average Canadian knows what these Defensive agreements give us access to...not only militarily, but economical as well....

Yeah, the ship business is getting press these days. Thing is, the program gives work to Quebec, Halifax, Vancouver.

We began the Maritime helicopter replacement for 36 helicopters way back in 2003 and as of late last year, we only received 24.

We began the fixed Wing SAR replacement for the Buffalos (and some Hercules) back in  2016. We were to get 16 CC-295s,Kingfishers (CASA  C-295) as of May 2023, we only received 5 and they are not operational yet.

Patriots would be useless as the range is only about 400 miles. Other systems would, in my opinion, be far too expensive and would never get approval form the government let alone the public.

Thing with being dropped or not included is that we cannot play and that is even a greater tragedy. Imagine getting kicked out of the clubs...we would not have a need for what remains of the Army. The Army only gets new stuff (as little as it gets) because of our participation in these clubs.

I am not sure the Canadian public cars or takes notice.

 

 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yeah, the ship business is getting press these days. Thing is, the program gives work to Quebec, Halifax, Vancouver.

We began the Maritime helicopter replacement for 36 helicopters way back in 2003 and as of late last year, we only received 24.

We began the fixed Wing SAR replacement for the Buffalos (and some Hercules) back in  2016. We were to get 16 CC-295s,Kingfishers (CASA  C-295) as of May 2023, we only received 5 and they are not operational yet.

Patriots would be useless as the range is only about 400 miles. Other systems would, in my opinion, be far too expensive and would never get approval form the government let alone the public.

Thing with being dropped or not included is that we cannot play and that is even a greater tragedy. Imagine getting kicked out of the clubs...we would not have a need for what remains of the Army. The Army only gets new stuff (as little as it gets) because of our participation in these clubs.

I am not sure the Canadian public cars or takes notice.

 

So we need to pad the accounts of national companies becasue they employ Canadians , where is the line drawn in the sand what was suppose to be 19 bil is now well over 60 bil, with not end in site...est cost per ship is 5.6 bil per... thats more than an Arleigh burke class destroyer...that has twice the capacity..

Another example of government poor leadership that contract should have been canceled for thousands of other reasons. why would we pick a one of helo whos spare parts is going to be shut down in a decade or so...we could have saved bils if we went with a combat proven design...like the Seahawk, or EH101...we repeat these same mistakes over and over.

Another purchase with problems, internal cabin height is under 6 ft, great if your small but put your helmet on and your walking around bent over...I wonder just how much say the SAR techs had in that purchase...and why not pick an aircraft with more internal height...  

It is the government that released that media blurb, now whether it is to placate the US i don't know...but we had a chance to get in on BMD for much cheaper years ago, but like always failed...instead of intercepting missiles over the far north American BMD missiles will be intercepting over Canadian lands ...of course those missiles will be filled with radioactive material should be fun to watch....

I have said over and over, either do it right or get rid of it...why risk sending soldier into a battle field when their are not prepared or equiped right, i'll tell you why Canadians think it is cheaper to bury our brothers and sisters than to equip them with the right stuff.......and if that means getting rid of the army, then i'm all for it...but in doing so, we are going to lose some of our sovereignty...or all of it to the US....

Thats the problem is it not, "Canadians" can't even take the time out to research what our military does on a day to day basis...do they give a crap...no...but when the next forest fire or winter storm, earth quake etc... happens they will have to fend for themselves...and they'll have no one to blame but themselves...Karma baby....Climate change is a bitc*...