Canadian Defence News

[BeaverFever]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

In my opinion these Manpads should go to the combat arms branch, Air defenders are going to have their hands full once the new BMD sites get built up north, plus they get the mobile Shorad ,med and high alt air defense system that have been promised...

I believe anything related to BMD homeland air defence is the job of the RCAF, probably out of 22 wing North Bay, and Army’s role in air defence is limited to protecting troops overseas. I don’t think there are plans for army AD capability to go much further than SHORAD and anti-drone. 

Edited February 17 by BeaverFever

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I believe anything related to BMD homeland air defence is the job of the RCAF, probably out of 22 wing North Bay, and Army’s role in air defence is limited to protecting troops overseas. I don’t think there are plans for army AD capability to go much further than SHORAD and anti-drone. 

I could not say for sure, the air force has really never had any BMD ground based missile systems in decades, atleast not since the bomarc missiles......that trade or people that were qualified are long gone...So regardless of who is going to operate them it is going to start from scratch. 

Army air defenders are the ones that provide air defence for airfields both army and air force, They are more air force than they are Army...well they did at one time, with the sky guard twin 35 mm towed guns, and radar systems...the Addats was the Army's mobile Shorad systems... as it could kill any thing that fly's and tanks as well. 

As for high alt like patriot sys, or med range sys like the ones were are purchasing Ukraine would more an likely be given to the army air defenders...but who knows . There has been recent talks about purchasing these systems for the CF...But where they go and who operates them is a great mystery...although highly unlikely they will go to the air force they don't like mud and bugs ain't no 5 star hotels in the woods. 

[Dougie93]

16 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I believe anything related to BMD homeland air defence is the job of the RCAF, probably out of 22 wing North Bay, and Army’s role in air defence is limited to protecting troops overseas. I don’t think there are plans for army AD capability to go much further than SHORAD and anti-drone. 

not that the collapsing Canadian military is able to expand its AD beyond SHORAD anyways

certainly the RCAF is not able to incorporate Patriot never mind THAAD

when the branch doesn't even have enough pilots, never mind deploying additional ground based defence forces

but Patriot is proving in Ukraine that it is vital for the defence of ground forces forward deployed none the less

since Patriot is keeping the Russian air force at bay over the trenches as well

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I could not say for sure, the air force has really never had any BMD ground based missile systems in decades, atleast not since the bomarc missiles......that trade or people that were qualified are long gone...So regardless of who is going to operate them it is going to start from scratch. 

Army air defenders are the ones that provide air defence for airfields both army and air force, They are more air force than they are Army...well they did at one time, with the sky guard twin 35 mm towed guns, and radar systems...the Addats was the Army's mobile Shorad systems... as it could kill any thing that fly's and tanks as well. 

As for high alt like patriot sys, or med range sys like the ones were are purchasing Ukraine would more an likely be given to the army air defenders...but who knows . There has been recent talks about purchasing these systems for the CF...But where they go and who operates them is a great mystery...although highly unlikely they will go to the air force they don't like mud and bugs ain't no 5 star hotels in the woods. 

I get what you are trying to imply but in reality, we do not need airfield and air defence on Canadian  soil. Where do you think we need it? Cold Lake? Maybe Bagotville. All other airfields are public airports.
Who is going to get near or attack them besides the American?

Yes, for portable and short range protection outside of Canada when deployed, yes, the Army can use them but, to have them in Canada, well, I think not. As far as training, again, the Army is being trained over there how to use them upon delivery.

Patriots? I think not. And they would never be in the woods.

 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I could not say for sure, the air force has really never had any BMD ground based missile systems in decades, atleast not since the bomarc missiles......that trade or people that were qualified are long gone...So regardless of who is going to operate them it is going to start from scratch. 

Army air defenders are the ones that provide air defence for airfields both army and air force, They are more air force than they are Army...well they did at one time, with the sky guard twin 35 mm towed guns, and radar systems...the Addats was the Army's mobile Shorad systems... as it could kill any thing that fly's and tanks as well. 

As for high alt like patriot sys, or med range sys like the ones were are purchasing Ukraine would more an likely be given to the army air defenders...but who knows . There has been recent talks about purchasing these systems for the CF...But where they go and who operates them is a great mystery...although highly unlikely they will go to the air force they don't like mud and bugs ain't no 5 star hotels in the woods. 

BMD would be better suited to the RCN

since RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 is already integrated into the Mk.41 VLS

although the Type 26 would need 6 x 8 for 48 cells to expand into the BMD role

none the less, the Raytheon AN/SPY-7 radar for Type 26 is BMD capable right out of the box

Parati Vero Parati

[Dougie93]

18 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I believe anything related to BMD homeland air defence is the job of the RCAF, probably out of 22 wing North Bay, \

but 22 Wing operates at the level of Ground Based Mid Course Defence ( GMD )

so only the Americans could provide interceptors therein

and that would be only if the US Missile Defence Agency was interested in deploying to 5 Wing Goose Bay

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I get what you are trying to imply but in reality, we do not need airfield and air defence on Canadian  soil. Where do you think we need it? Cold Lake? Maybe Bagotville. All other airfields are public airports.
Who is going to get near or attack them besides the American?

Yes, for portable and short range protection outside of Canada when deployed, yes, the Army can use them but, to have them in Canada, well, I think not. As far as training, again, the Army is being trained over there how to use them upon delivery.

Patriots? I think not. And they would never be in the woods.

 

well 911 does come to mind. I think we do need some air defense on canadian soil don't we?

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

well 911 does come to mind. I think we do need some air defense on canadian soil don't we?

Again.... get over it, wake up in 2024 LOL   You live in the past far too much.

A lot has changed since 2001 and, it was in the US.  Canada has never had such a threat.

And, you think ballistic missile defence would have or could have stopped it?? LOL

Edited February 18 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Again.... get over it, wake up in 2024 LOL   You live in the past far too much.

Wow,  your intense logic and clear grasp of the issues have won me over.

There are stupider posters on this site but sometimes you REALLY make them work for it.  If you don't have something more intelligent than a grade 3 pupil could offer then best to stay quiet and not highlight it.

Quote

A lot has changed since 2001 and, it was in the US.  Canada has never had such a threat.

Nothing has changed.  What did you THINK had changed? There's no such thing as terrorists any more? We don't use airplanes anymore?

For that matter russian bombers buzz our borders regularly. You figure putin's a nice guy, we can trust him?

And just a reminder - the US had never had such a threat either till suddenly it did.

Quote

And, you think ballistic missile defence would have or could have stopped it?? LOL

Do you have some evidence that it couldn't?  Seems to me i've heard tell of people shooting down planes and drones with missile defense systems before....  ask your buddy putin that you trust so much about that

Canada needs to be able to defend itself. That is the very first and foremost job of a sovereign nation.  it is CLEAR that there are threats, your pretending otherwise is just silly.

So if you're going to make an argument that we don't need such defenses you'll have to do better than 'Uuuuuuhhh  You livvin i da past DERP"

[Aristides]

17 hours ago, CdnFox said:

well 911 does come to mind. I think we do need some air defense on canadian soil don't we?

How well did the most powerful airforce in the world do to protect the US on 911?

Our F-18's are old but still quite capable of intercepting a civil airliner. 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Wow,  your intense logic and clear grasp of the issues have won me over.

There are stupider posters on this site but sometimes you REALLY make them work for it.  If you don't have something more intelligent than a grade 3 pupil could offer then best to stay quiet and not highlight it.

Nothing has changed.  What did you THINK had changed? There's no such thing as terrorists any more? We don't use airplanes anymore?

For that matter russian bombers buzz our borders regularly. You figure putin's a nice guy, we can trust him?

And just a reminder - the US had never had such a threat either till suddenly it did.

Do you have some evidence that it couldn't?  Seems to me i've heard tell of people shooting down planes and drones with missile defense systems before....  ask your buddy putin that you trust so much about that

Canada needs to be able to defend itself. That is the very first and foremost job of a sovereign nation.  it is CLEAR that there are threats, your pretending otherwise is just silly.

So if you're going to make an argument that we don't need such defenses you'll have to do better than 'Uuuuuuhhh  You livvin i da past DERP"

Keep it up.

It confirms to me and others you are actually as stupid as you convey.

What imminent threat have we come to in North America since 2001?

Do you even know what a missile defence system is? I think not. It ain't a pistol you grab out of your holster. And Drones? In Canada? aimed at what?? LOL

You truly think someone would have fired a ballistic missile at a commercial aircraft or had time to get on target when it made last second course corrections?? You are stupider than we all think LOL

Russian bombers have been skirting our (and American) borders since the beginning of the cold war (1947 FYI).

But hey, 0vwer 13,500 posts in a year tells me you don't get out of your basement much LOL

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Keep it up.

Ooooo ANOTHER brilliant and witty response!!   So much knowledging, so much using thinking!!! Very impressive,

Quote

It confirms to me and others you are actually as stupid as you convey.

Whcih would still be twice as smart as you sadly.

As to the rest - blah blah whine whine doesn't know anything blah.

Hey stupid - we've got russia running at our borders constantly.  AND we're in a fairly serious disagreement with them right now over the arctic.  We've got north korea developing missles that can easily reach most places in Canada and they're adapting their nuclear tech to fit.  We've got china testing whether or not we'll allow them to just float items over our heads at any time (we had to call the us to shoot it down).

We had to scramle our own defenses in 9/11 and could very easily have been targeted. And isis and other groups specifically said we were on their list for terrorist attacks, which as we know can easily involve planes.

You'd have to be the biggest loser in the world to pretend there's NO threat to canada. We should just pack up our military and not bother at all according to you - no threats in the slightest.

What a dolt.

 

[ExFlyer]

29 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Ooooo ANOTHER brilliant and witty response!!   So much knowledging, so much using thinking!!! Very impressive,

Whcih would still be twice as smart as you sadly.

As to the rest - blah blah whine whine doesn't know anything blah.

Hey stupid - we've got russia running at our borders constantly.  AND we're in a fairly serious disagreement with them right now over the arctic.  We've got north korea developing missles that can easily reach most places in Canada and they're adapting their nuclear tech to fit.  We've got china testing whether or not we'll allow them to just float items over our heads at any time (we had to call the us to shoot it down).

We had to scramle our own defenses in 9/11 and could very easily have been targeted. And isis and other groups specifically said we were on their list for terrorist attacks, which as we know can easily involve planes.

You'd have to be the biggest loser in the world to pretend there's NO threat to canada. We should just pack up our military and not bother at all according to you - no threats in the slightest.

What a dolt.

 

Like I said, Russia has been at our borders since the Cold War began in 1947. Whats new??/ We even let them float spy balloons over us LOL
We got Bomarcs in 1958 for North American defence.

The entire world scrambled and went on Level 1 alert on 911.

I am. realist and am very aware that there is very little threat to Canada right now, especially from Russian bombers and missiles.

Only a basement dweller wearing his tinfoil hat even thinks we are under threat..Look in your mirror dolt LOL

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tinfoil-hat-territory_b_3456566

Edited February 18 by ExFlyer

[Army Guy]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:14 PM, ExFlyer said:

I get what you are trying to imply but in reality, we do not need airfield and air defence on Canadian  soil. Where do you think we need it? Cold Lake? Maybe Bagotville. All other airfields are public airports.
Who is going to get near or attack them besides the American?

Yes, for portable and short range protection outside of Canada when deployed, yes, the Army can use them but, to have them in Canada, well, I think not. As far as training, again, the Army is being trained over there how to use them upon delivery.

Patriots? I think not. And they would never be in the woods.

 

In reality we don't need a lot of capabilities according to your logic, most if not all our equipment will be used in an overseas event... Cold lake use to have both guns and ADDATS systems for both air force and air defenders to train on. Since we do not have an overseas base, or storage facility it needs to go somewhere...The last air defender unit was in Gagetown, why not have one at each brigade?   Not sure where your going with this? Last time we sent troops to BC for the Olympics, addats and guns were deployed, to protect against "any" aerial threat known or unknown...

Look i did not invent any of this in my own mind this was based on past Military doctrine and actual units based in Canada...Since we don't have over seas bases, the only option is to have the unit here in Canada...Not sure how the air force works , but in the army every soldier trains constantly, from individual to Divisional level, with all weapons available to them...Not being able to train on a constant basis is a terrible idea...Some systems need training on a constant level, other are bi yearly or yearly, thats means going through the entire gambit sat PWT's, SAT range, rifle qual, jungle lanes, night and day...then section level, plt, company, BN, levels...all tieds into the units readiness level...

Training over there is great for the first bunch may be ok ...But the second troops should arrive on the ground already trained...you don't send troops a possible conflict areas with out any advanced training on their specialty, it just is not done very often it or at all...

Media has mentioned Canada contemplating both systems High and Med alt air defence weapons systems. Patriot was also mentioned in the article...well just a quick look at US or German Patriot deployments , they ain't in no 5 star holiday inn around, they are pretty close to things like mud, sand, snow...none of those are friends of the air force... 

 

 

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Like I said, Russia has been at our borders since the Cold War began in 1947. Whats new??/

Nothing. Nothing has changed. I agree.  YOU were the one that claimed everything is different now.  It isn't.

Russia is there, they continue to develop more advanced weaponry such as supersonic cruise missiles etc and they still probe our borders and they still have a beef with us.  So we need defenses.

You literally just shot your own argument out of the water.

Russia is a serious threat, north korea is, china is, terrorist actors are, there's all kinds of threats.  A country needs to be able to defend against it.

And it's pretty obvious you know that's correct, or you'd be making much stronger arguments than "duh, everything's changed and it's always been like this! Derp!"

The chances of your place catching on fire is so low it's ridiculous. The number of actual fires vs the number of homes is tiny.  There is very little threat of fire  - do you have insurance? Yeah - most intelligent people do. See how that works?

Edited February 19 by CdnFox

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Like I said, Russia has been at our borders since the Cold War began in 1947. Whats new??/ We even let them float spy balloons over us LOL
We got Bomarcs in 1958 for North American defence.

The entire world scrambled and went on Level 1 alert on 911.

I am. realist and am very aware that there is very little threat to Canada right now, especially from Russian bombers and missiles.

Only a basement dweller wearing his tinfoil hat even thinks we are under threat..Look in your mirror dolt LOL

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tinfoil-hat-territory_b_3456566

Not that i'm sticking up for fox, last thing i want to do is try and cut in while you guys do that dance move thingy you got going on...But NATO has moved up it's alert position for fear of russian aggression, not only in Ukraine but in Sweden, Norway, Finland with some NATO countries adopting a war type footing up to including bring up it's reserve forces... Doomsday clock has been moved closer to midnight than any time in history.....meanwhile here in Canada we are still very content with our pants firmly at our ankles...bent over with a sign taped to our ass < please insert here< 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Not that i'm sticking up for fox, last thing i want to do is try and cut in while you guys do that dance move thingy you got going on...But .....

Probably one of the nastiest ways to say "he's right " that i've seen in quite a while

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Nothing. Nothing has changed. I agree.  YOU were the one that claimed everything is different now.  It isn't.

Russia is there, they continue to develop more advanced weaponry such as supersonic cruise missiles etc and they still probe our borders and they still have a beef with us.  So we need defenses.

You literally just shot your own argument out of the water.

Russia is a serious threat, north korea is, china is, terrorist actors are, there's all kinds of threats.  A country needs to be able to defend against it.

And it's pretty obvious you know that's correct, or you'd be making much stronger arguments than "duh, everything's changed and it's always been like this! Derp!"

The chances of your place catching on fire is so low it's ridiculous. The number of actual fires vs the number of homes is tiny.  There is very little threat of fire  - do you have insurance? Yeah - most intelligent people do. See how that works?

Out of context again. You certainly know how to do that LOL

I am telling you that your comment about Russians being at our borders is not a new. thing. You tried to make it out as a new threat. You were and are wrong, suck it up LOL..

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, Army Guy said:

In reality we don't need a lot of capabilities according to your logic, most if not all our equipment will be used in an overseas event... Cold lake use to have both guns and ADDATS systems for both air force and air defenders to train on. Since we do not have an overseas base, or storage facility it needs to go somewhere...The last air defender unit was in Gagetown, why not have one at each brigade?   Not sure where your going with this? Last time we sent troops to BC for the Olympics, addats and guns were deployed, to protect against "any" aerial threat known or unknown...

Look i did not invent any of this in my own mind this was based on past Military doctrine and actual units based in Canada...Since we don't have over seas bases, the only option is to have the unit here in Canada...Not sure how the air force works , but in the army every soldier trains constantly, from individual to Divisional level, with all weapons available to them...Not being able to train on a constant basis is a terrible idea...Some systems need training on a constant level, other are bi yearly or yearly, thats means going through the entire gambit sat PWT's, SAT range, rifle qual, jungle lanes, night and day...then section level, plt, company, BN, levels...all tieds into the units readiness level...

Training over there is great for the first bunch may be ok ...But the second troops should arrive on the ground already trained...you don't send troops a possible conflict areas with out any advanced training on their specialty, it just is not done very often it or at all...

Media has mentioned Canada contemplating both systems High and Med alt air defence weapons systems. Patriot was also mentioned in the article...well just a quick look at US or German Patriot deployments , they ain't in no 5 star holiday inn around, they are pretty close to things like mud, sand, snow...none of those are friends of the air force... 

 

 

 

Look, not getting philosophical but, in todays world and more importantly in todays Canadian Military (not just Army), we are a few folks doing small things.

Yes, the last air defence was in Gagegetown, where it was from beginning to end. Defending what? A helipad? A lake? The range? It never deployed.

Our "past Military doctrine" is old, very old news and has no bearing or effect on todays Military, be it Army, Navy or Air Force. For sure it is a political thing form all parties in charge over the last 25 (or more) years.

If we have some weapons overseas, the personnel can train there too. They do not have to be deployed en mass. You deploy or transfer a few at a time. That is how rotations work in the Navy and Air Force. You don't pack up an entire ship with  all it's personnel and send them elsewhere. Same with the Air force, you don't send the entire squadron or air base and ship it out en mass. You selectively move personnel so as not to harm operations in either location.

Yes, we train in that Air Force but I think we are more operational than the Army and a bit more than the Navy. Yes, our SAR techs require lots training as do out pilots but our feet on the ground personnel (of the few remaining) are operational and functioning daily maintaining the aircraft. There is a big difference training aviation and naval weapon systems vs Army weapons. The Army does not have enough misses and shells to just go out and shoot them. Too costly. So I suspect training is just short of actually firing the systems. That can be done with training aids and software.

As for "Media has mentioned"? Really, media jumps on anything that may be a story, factual or not to sell the story.

Comparing German and American deployments to Canada's participation is quite laughable isn't it? I mean, they have more weapons and fire more ammunition and rockets and missiles and whatever in one regiment that we have in pour entire Army. I just saw a story on 60 Minutes last night where a US Navy destroyer shot off many short range defensive missile in training. At over $4 million each. We do not have that kind of money to burn in our entire Army.

Not dissing our Army, let alone our Military but I have become, or maybe have always been, realistic. I would love nothing more that to have a Military that is expanded and more effective, even back to when I joined in 1969 ,but politics have decided something else.

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Not that i'm sticking up for fox, last thing i want to do is try and cut in while you guys do that dance move thingy you got going on...But NATO has moved up it's alert position for fear of russian aggression, not only in Ukraine but in Sweden, Norway, Finland with some NATO countries adopting a war type footing up to including bring up it's reserve forces... Doomsday clock has been moved closer to midnight than any time in history.....meanwhile here in Canada we are still very content with our pants firmly at our ankles...bent over with a sign taped to our ass < please insert here< 

I agree with you.

NATO has upped it's alert level in Europe and yes, we are part of NATO.

Thing is, the cdnfux is trying to say we are threatened here in Canada.

We are not threatened by what is going on over there.

[Aristides]

This doesn't help our recruiting problem.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/permanent-resident-military-applications-enrolment-1.7116469

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Out of context again. You certainly know how to do that LOL

I am telling you that your comment about Russians being at our borders is not a new. thing. You tried to make it out as a new threat. You were and are wrong, suck it up LOL..

It's entirely in context and you're being an 1diot.  There's no point talking to you about this,  you're so painfully obviously wrong it's stupid.

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I agree with you.

NATO has upped it's alert level in Europe and yes, we are part of NATO.

Thing is, the cdnfux is trying to say we are threatened here in Canada.

We are not threatened by what is going on over there.

So i was right.  Yeah. thought so.

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Look, not getting philosophical but, in todays world and more importantly in todays Canadian Military (not just Army), we are a few folks doing small things.

Yes, the last air defence was in Gagegetown, where it was from beginning to end. Defending what? A helipad? A lake? The range? It never deployed.

Our "past Military doctrine" is old, very old news and has no bearing or effect on todays Military, be it Army, Navy or Air Force. For sure it is a political thing form all parties in charge over the last 25 (or more) years.

If we have some weapons overseas, the personnel can train there too. They do not have to be deployed en mass. You deploy or transfer a few at a time. That is how rotations work in the Navy and Air Force. You don't pack up an entire ship with  all it's personnel and send them elsewhere. Same with the Air force, you don't send the entire squadron or air base and ship it out en mass. You selectively move personnel so as not to harm operations in either location.

Yes, we train in that Air Force but I think we are more operational than the Army and a bit more than the Navy. Yes, our SAR techs require lots training as do out pilots but our feet on the ground personnel (of the few remaining) are operational and functioning daily maintaining the aircraft. There is a big difference training aviation and naval weapon systems vs Army weapons. The Army does not have enough misses and shells to just go out and shoot them. Too costly. So I suspect training is just short of actually firing the systems. That can be done with training aids and software.

As for "Media has mentioned"? Really, media jumps on anything that may be a story, factual or not to sell the story.

Comparing German and American deployments to Canada's participation is quite laughable isn't it? I mean, they have more weapons and fire more ammunition and rockets and missiles and whatever in one regiment that we have in pour entire Army. I just saw a story on 60 Minutes last night where a US Navy destroyer shot off many short range defensive missile in training. At over $4 million each. We do not have that kind of money to burn in our entire Army.

Not dissing our Army, let alone our Military but I have become, or maybe have always been, realistic. I would love nothing more that to have a Military that is expanded and more effective, even back to when I joined in 1969 ,but politics have decided something else.

Thats is and was a liberal decision, remember Justin big announcement at the UN "were back", and like all liberal lies it was to create a narrative that some how Canada was a great contributor to Global conflicts...it was not created to have us put into action, but just the narrative to make it sound like we were doing something, in reality we are nothing more that cheap bastards, with no intention of helping others...

Your under the assumption that a military unit in an area has to be accomplishing something...Why is 2 Brigade in Petawawa, there is nothing there but woods and sand what are they defending......Air defense unit in Gagetown did deploy, Gulf war I, with the navy, it has deployed domestically on operations like the Olympics in BC, plus El Paso USA to take part in international air defense exercises... It was in Gagetwon due to the size of the training areas., only there and Suffield Alberta could they fire their missiles in training...

Our past doctrine is what units are getting back to, we are no longer concentrating on the war on terror, but getting back to basics fighting near peer enemies in high intensity warfare...and now the new threats as seen in ukraine with drones, or the use of older type weapons such as  long range anti tank weapons, and precision rockets and arty... making tanks and IFV more vulnerable, and while they are starting to adapt with changes , it will take some time before they are put into production...

We don't have any overseas bases at the moment...And yes the Army does move in and out of theaters in mass taking as little as a month to rip out an entire ROTO....the ROTO's have a couple weeks of overlap, to get the lay of land and learn any new tactics the enemy has come up with, most of the training is done in Canada during your 6 month work up...but in some cases that is not possible due to time restriction some first ROTO's  go in cold.......Same as the Navy, a ship leaves and a new one replaces it...

I get there is a big difference in weapons from one element to another, but unlike the airforce and NAVY who may have a couple different systems, that a few select people know how to operate, the army has dozens that most if not all army pers need to know like their back of their hand...and that takes time, and resources, with each training cycle r4equiring firing a live ammo both day and night...Yes it is expensive, but that has not changed the training requirement...You should vist gagetown, the sounds of arty, tank , IFV, small arms rattle homes some 30 kms away...all throughout the year... And while not everyone in the army is training on a constant basis, but combat arms do so frequently, so we do not get skill fade...

The media does not make up a story like that and you know it, that was released by DND, for public consumption, now will they go ahead maybe maybe not...The CDS has mentioned it in the media several times, that these systems are required but when is unknown...

Politics just respond to what the people want, Canadians are the ones that want our current military the way it is, and are very happy with it's decay....most due to lack of knowledge on what our military does every day and night, nor does it effect them in any way until something happens, like forrest fire, flood, ice storm, we have become lazy, cheap, mouth pieces that have lost all credibility on the global stage, and Canadians for the most part love it... And one day it will bite us in the ass...and this lack of preparation will have the same results as previous conflicts...You can't half a$$ the military, you either have one that is functionable or you don't right now we don't....

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I agree with you.

NATO has upped it's alert level in Europe and yes, we are part of NATO.

Thing is, the cdnfux is trying to say we are threatened here in Canada.

We are not threatened by what is going on over there.

Thats not true, CSIS/ CDS/RCMP has reported many different threats that Russia, china poses to Canada, the Liberals have brushed them away and Canadians let them...

What is going on overseas has effected us, GAS is way up, which drives the rest of the economy up, and NATO is telling better yet begging it's members to step up as the security risks increase. Here in Canada we are nose blind to the smell of sh*t over seas...nor do Canadians really care, about them let alone Canada....we pretend...we love to pretend...

[ExFlyer]

18 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Thats not true, CSIS/ CDS/RCMP has reported many different threats that Russia, china poses to Canada, the Liberals have brushed them away and Canadians let them...

What is going on overseas has effected us, GAS is way up, which drives the rest of the economy up, and NATO is telling better yet begging it's members to step up as the security risks increase. Here in Canada we are nose blind to the smell of sh*t over seas...nor do Canadians really care, about them let alone Canada....we pretend...we love to pretend...

My point, and you helped make it, is there threats and then there are THREATS.

We here in Canada may have threats but are not physically under threat. Economic threat in Canada is often self induced by our political masters.

Our Military has become a political puppet, here and abroad. Only in our aid to civil power is all Canadians seem to be aware of the Military or, unfortunately, when one of ours gets killed.

18 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Thats is and was a liberal decision, remember Justin big announcement at the UN "were back", and like all liberal lies it was to create a narrative that some how Canada was a great contributor to Global conflicts...it was not created to have us put into action, but just the narrative to make it sound like we were doing something, in reality we are nothing more that cheap bastards, with no intention of helping others...

Your under the assumption that a military unit in an area has to be accomplishing something...Why is 2 Brigade in Petawawa, there is nothing there but woods and sand what are they defending......Air defense unit in Gagetown did deploy, Gulf war I, with the navy, it has deployed domestically on operations like the Olympics in BC, plus El Paso USA to take part in international air defense exercises... It was in Gagetwon due to the size of the training areas., only there and Suffield Alberta could they fire their missiles in training...

Our past doctrine is what units are getting back to, we are no longer concentrating on the war on terror, but getting back to basics fighting near peer enemies in high intensity warfare...and now the new threats as seen in ukraine with drones, or the use of older type weapons such as  long range anti tank weapons, and precision rockets and arty... making tanks and IFV more vulnerable, and while they are starting to adapt with changes , it will take some time before they are put into production...

We don't have any overseas bases at the moment...And yes the Army does move in and out of theaters in mass taking as little as a month to rip out an entire ROTO....the ROTO's have a couple weeks of overlap, to get the lay of land and learn any new tactics the enemy has come up with, most of the training is done in Canada during your 6 month work up...but in some cases that is not possible due to time restriction some first ROTO's  go in cold.......Same as the Navy, a ship leaves and a new one replaces it...

I get there is a big difference in weapons from one element to another, but unlike the airforce and NAVY who may have a couple different systems, that a few select people know how to operate, the army has dozens that most if not all army pers need to know like their back of their hand...and that takes time, and resources, with each training cycle r4equiring firing a live ammo both day and night...Yes it is expensive, but that has not changed the training requirement...You should vist gagetown, the sounds of arty, tank , IFV, small arms rattle homes some 30 kms away...all throughout the year... And while not everyone in the army is training on a constant basis, but combat arms do so frequently, so we do not get skill fade...

The media does not make up a story like that and you know it, that was released by DND, for public consumption, now will they go ahead maybe maybe not...The CDS has mentioned it in the media several times, that these systems are required but when is unknown...

Politics just respond to what the people want, Canadians are the ones that want our current military the way it is, and are very happy with it's decay....most due to lack of knowledge on what our military does every day and night, nor does it effect them in any way until something happens, like forrest fire, flood, ice storm, we have become lazy, cheap, mouth pieces that have lost all credibility on the global stage, and Canadians for the most part love it... And one day it will bite us in the ass...and this lack of preparation will have the same results as previous conflicts...You can't half a$$ the military, you either have one that is functionable or you don't right now we don't....

Sounds like you agree with me.

Edited February 20 by ExFlyer