Canadian Defence News

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So??

Thousands of military personnel under his command were killed.

Buddy. You said something dumb and he pointed it out. This is just... weak.

Edited January 30, 2024 by I am Groot

[Zeitgeist]

Nelson’s defeat of the French and Spanish at the Battle of Trafalgar was one of the greatest victories in naval warfare.  In terms of significance geopolitically for the Brits, you have to look to Waterloo, defeating the Spanish Armads, Sir Francis Drake’s booty for the Treasury, and the Great Wars for comparison.  It was seminal and entrenched British control of the seas through Admiralty law through Gibraltar, the Suez, and more up until America built the Panama Canal and took the lead after WW2, but really, the Brits never left.  So many incredible stories.  Some of the stories are quite dark, such as profiting from the opium trade in China, the slave trade, and so on, but most countries and peoples were up to all sorts of no good without raising living standards and quality of life for millions, which is what the Brits achieved. No doubt the Brits ruled the seas for centuries and the English speaking peoples have had the largest geopolitical heft of any powers.  Guys like Nelson made it happen, more for the better than the worse.  When you see Nelson’s column in Old Montreal or the Brock monument in Queenston and tour the bases that weren’t captured in the War of 1812, Kingston and Halifax, that’s part of the legacy. Our civilization didn’t just appear.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Buddy. You said something dumb and he pointed it out. This is just... weak.

Buddy, your comment is equally, if not dumber.

Hero worship for anyone by anyone is what is dumb.

Edited January 30, 2024 by ExFlyer

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Buddy, your comment is equally, if not dumber.

Hero worship for anyone by anyone is what is dumb.

Recognizing achievement is not hero worship. Nelson was a brilliant fighting admiral regardless of his private life.

The Nile and Trafalgar were as close to complete victories as any sea battles in history with almost complete destruction of French and Spanish fleets while suffering 1/10th the casualties. 

Combined British dead in both battles was just less than 700.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Aristides

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

Recognizing achievement is not hero worship.

when I joined HM Royal Canadian Infantry Corps, over thirty five years ago

we certainly did worship our heroes

particularly the Patrol Pathfinders

 NCO's who epitomized the best small army in the world, at the very tip of the spear

for me, that was ;

MWO Dave Preeper

WO Ed "Chuck" Barnsley

WO Carl Deroche

Sgt Scotty "Jumper" Collins

Mcpl Jamie Teather

Mcpl Frank Mellish ( RIP )

we called them "Infantry Gods"

Ducimus

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Buddy, your comment is equally, if not dumber.

Hero worship for anyone by anyone is what is dumb.

Now you're getting all defensive. I never said a thing about Nelson, so why would you think I worship him?

But there's no denying he's a 'hero' as we rate such people and I really don't know why you even tried.

 

[Dougie93]

19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 When you see Nelson’s column in Old Montreal or the Brock monument in Queenston and tour the bases that weren’t captured in the War of 1812, Kingston and Halifax, that’s part of the legacy.

General Wolfe & The Marquis de Montcalm upon the Plains of Abraham, our formation war

General Brock & Chief Tecumseh at the Heights of Queenston & Fort Detroit, our founding fathers

Field Marshall Byng & General Currie, on Hill One Four Five at Pas de Calais, our revolutionaries

Shock Troops of the Empire

British Crown in North America

The Maple Leaf Forever

 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Now you're getting all defensive. I never said a thing about Nelson, so why would you think I worship him?

But there's no denying he's a 'hero' as we rate such people and I really don't know why you even tried.

 

Just responding to your post to me that said "Buddy. You said something dumb and he pointed it out. This is just... weak. ".

My original point was that dougies normal heros are torturers and murderers. I care not about some pint sized sailor that died over 300 years ago.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

when I joined HM Royal Canadian Infantry Corps, over thirty five years ago

we certainly did worship our heroes

particularly the Patrol Pathfinders

 NCO's who epitomized the best small army in the world, at the very tip of the spear

for me, that was ;

MWO Dave Preeper

WO Ed "Chuck" Barnsley

WO Carl Deroche

Sgt Scotty "Jumper" Collins

Mcpl Jamie Teather

Mcpl Frank Mellish ( RIP )

we called them "Infantry Gods"

Ducimus

The list of Infantry gods is long and distinguished, spanning Dozens of Regt's. We owe them a great debt, i and those others hope to one day to be drinking beer, and telling stories, in gods great hall set aside for warriors .... 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

The list of Infantry gods is long and distinguished, spanning Dozens of Regt's. We owe them a great debt, i and those others hope to one day to be drinking beer, and telling stories, in gods great hall set aside for warriors .... 

it was my great honour & privilege to even have met them in this world

may we all be together again in the next world to come

Frank Mellish will see his children again there

Matthew & Koven

God bless them

 

[Army Guy]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it was my great honour & privilege to even have met them in this world

may we all be together again in the next world to come

Frank Mellish will see his children again there

Matthew & Koven

God bless them

 

the lead officer looks like Lcol Fife, that maybe 2 RCR in the back ground.

[Aristides]

On 1/29/2024 at 10:10 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Nelson’s defeat of the French and Spanish at the Battle of Trafalgar was one of the greatest victories in naval warfare.  In terms of significance geopolitically for the Brits, you have to look to Waterloo, defeating the Spanish Armads, Sir Francis Drake’s booty for the Treasury, and the Great Wars for comparison.  It was seminal and entrenched British control of the seas through Admiralty law through Gibraltar, the Suez, and more up until America built the Panama Canal and took the lead after WW2, but really, the Brits never left.  So many incredible stories.  Some of the stories are quite dark, such as profiting from the opium trade in China, the slave trade, and so on, but most countries and peoples were up to all sorts of no good without raising living standards and quality of life for millions, which is what the Brits achieved. No doubt the Brits ruled the seas for centuries and the English speaking peoples have had the largest geopolitical heft of any powers.  Guys like Nelson made it happen, more for the better than the worse.  When you see Nelson’s column in Old Montreal or the Brock monument in Queenston and tour the bases that weren’t captured in the War of 1812, Kingston and Halifax, that’s part of the legacy. Our civilization didn’t just appear.

Empire of the Deep, the rise and fall of British Navy by Ben Wilson is a good read. The rise of British sea power wasn’t at all linear. Like much of Britains military history it lurches from victories to neglect then coming from behind as new threats arose.

[Dougie93]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:55 PM, Army Guy said:

the lead officer looks like Lcol Fife

at the going down of the sun and in the morning

we will remember them

Victoria Regina Imperatrix

Pro Patria

[Army Guy]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

at the going down of the sun and in the morning

we will remember them

Victoria Regina Imperatrix

Pro Patria

One of the good guys...

[Dougie93]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:10 PM, Zeitgeist said:

 When you see Nelson’s column in Old Montreal or the Brock monument in Queenston and tour the bases that weren’t captured in the War of 1812, Kingston and Halifax, that’s part of the legacy. Our civilization didn’t just appear.

Glorious Revolution of 1688

the founding of the modern British liberal state

the light of civilization itself

reaching its pinnacle at Toronto the Good

where we were raised

in British North America

Ut incepit fidelis sic permanet

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

One of the good guys...

 

The 48th Highlanders of Canada pay solemn compliments to the fallen

 

1st Canadian Infantry Brigade, 1st Canadian Infantry Division

 

Pachino Day forever

 

Dileas

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

Empire of the Deep, the rise and fall of British Navy by Ben Wilson is a good read. The rise of British sea power wasn’t at all linear. Like much of Britains military history it lurches from victories to neglect then coming from behind as new threats arose.

I’ll check it out.  Winston Churchill’s 5 volume History of the English Speaking People is an amazing overview.

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’ll check it out.  Winston Churchill’s 5 volume History of the English Speaking People is an amazing overview.

I have it and read it many years ago.

A lot of things that were secret then have since been released.

Edited February 2, 2024 by Aristides

[Dougie93]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:10 PM, Zeitgeist said:

 In terms of significance geopolitically for the Brits, you have to look to . . .

Canada's victories being the greatest therein

seizing Quebec was the greatest expeditionary operation in modern history, until Normandy

the British Empire itself was founded upon the Plains of Abraham

from the Ypres Salient to Vimy Ridge, the Confederation became a nation, forging The Canadian Corps

then from Amiens to Mons, the Shock Troops of the Empire won the Great War in a Hundred Days

before the Americans entered the Second World War, it was Canada which saved the Old Country

Corvettes across the North Atlantic, under the harshest conditions, into mortal peril against the Wolfpacks

Avro Lancaster crews flying to the gates of Hell itself to deliver the wrath of a vengeful Lord

Canada's D-Day Dodgers laid their lives down relentlessly for God, King & Country

from the Landing at Pachino, to Little Stalingrad at Ortona

Juno Beach was as fearsome as Omaha, yet the Canadians advanced further inland then any on Overlord

Canadian Paratroopers jumped into the storm, from Pegasus Bridge to Arnhem Bridge, then into the Rhineland

1st Canadian Army advanced from France to Holland, spearheading the liberation of Northwest Europe

considering the tiny population of Canada in relation to the rest of the Empire

none gave more,  none were more victorious in the face of more overwhelming odds

the best small army in the world, was the greatest British army that ever was

A mari usque ad mare

[Army Guy]

Just found this, an old U tube, on the first missions of the Afghanistan war...and the first soldiers to pay the ultimate price for this nation in this conflict....

 

[I am Groot]

Trudeau's DEI obsession has spread to the military and is helping destroy it - along with his budget cuts.

Turns out, open hostility to white men isn't great for military recruitment Identity-driven policies and rhetoric only serve to alienate the military's biggest pool of recruits

Like every army ever, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) have always been predominantly male. And, as a country with a majority of the population being of European descent, its members have been predominantly white. These facts should be uncontroversial.

But unlike every army ever, the CAF is using the identities of its historic membership to promote an ethos of guilt and shame within the institution. This isn’t fixing the present recruitment crisis and it’s doubtful that it ever will — but this approach has the firm support of scholarly military voices, the latest example coming to us from Paul Mitchell, a defence studies professor at the Canadian Forces College.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-turns-out-open-hostility-to-white-men-isnt-great-for-military-recruitment

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Trudeau's DEI obsession has spread to the military and is helping destroy it - along with his budget cuts.

Turns out, open hostility to white men isn't great for military recruitment Identity-driven policies and rhetoric only serve to alienate the military's biggest pool of recruits

Like every army ever, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) have always been predominantly male. And, as a country with a majority of the population being of European descent, its members have been predominantly white. These facts should be uncontroversial.

But unlike every army ever, the CAF is using the identities of its historic membership to promote an ethos of guilt and shame within the institution. This isn’t fixing the present recruitment crisis and it’s doubtful that it ever will — but this approach has the firm support of scholarly military voices, the latest example coming to us from Paul Mitchell, a defence studies professor at the Canadian Forces College.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-turns-out-open-hostility-to-white-men-isnt-great-for-military-recruitment

I agree somewhat but lets put this in perspective.

CAF, Canadian Armed Forces is not just Army. Yes, there is a recruiting problem for the Army but, when I joined in 1969, the Army also had problems recruiting as did the Navy. The recruiter has  always had problems getting people to join the Army and Navy. They pushed very hard for the potential recruit to join Army or Navy careers, especially to become a grunt or ordinary seaman. No disrespect to those that did but, foot soldiers and deck mates were not a very attractive career and are still not.

The recruitment problem is now for the Armed Forces as a whole. The Air Force has taken to contracting out a lot of it. First line maintenance (on the hangar line) on most of it's fleet has been contracted out. Overhauls and repairs has been contracted out for decades. Hence, all the air force needs at this time is basically aircrew. (yes, there are still aircraft maintainers but they are small numbers and primarily on fighters, tactical helicopter squadrons and with maritime helicopters.

As for the CAF, the entire leadership has become a political pawn for whomever is in control. Trudeau 1 and 2, as well as the conservatives in between did not respect the military and only when it was politically necessary did they use the military but, always to the benefit of the political agenda. The Military leadership is not leading a military but being subservient to political whim. They are ordered to follow or to enforce policies that are not "military" but social. The military is not a social organization and by making it one, less and less people want to be part of it.

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2024 by ExFlyer

[Venandi]

22 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The military is not a social organization and by making it one, less and less people want to be part of it.

 

 

Ain’t that the truth…

The percentage of people ready, willing and able to join the CAF at any given time is a small percentage of the Canadian population as a whole. And, given the systemic delays in recruiting, all too often the top contenders in that cadre are lost to other hungry entities like policing.

The current woke madness has lost touch with the notion that experienced based organizations need to closely monitor retention, recruiting and operational tempo with binoculars trained on the horizon, eagerly anticipating future needs.

What a lot of people don’t realize (I think) is that military service has a significant generational component to it. Most (or at least many) recruits have family members or family friends who are either currently serving or veterans. When those folks start recommending alternative career paths (as I do now) it negatively affects the supply side of the equation. There simply aren't enough purple haired Wiccans with facial piercings to pick up the  slack.

At present we lose 10 experienced solders for every 9 new recruits making the situation unsustainable if nothing changes. Over time, mentoring and operational tempo gets crushed, and time is running out IMO. Since careers are measured in decades, I fear that the woke cadre currently gaining traction will be a cultural factor in the CAF for years to come.

I think it’s a Bud Light moment for the military. I usually ask those who disagree to search their memory banks and consider every women they have ever known or met… relatives, friends, coworkers etc and ask how many of them sincerely want to join the infantry and go to jump school. Or how many of them want to join the navy, sleep in mess decks and spend 6 months at sea every year.

I’m not talking about those women who actually could do it either (that ready willing and able thing again), I refer only to those who actually want to do it.

I know several young ladies at the gym capable of meeting the JTF2 or CSOR physical fitness standards, none of them are even remotely interested in joining. I even suggested SAR Tech as an alternative to one of them who is interested in nursing. The answer wasn’t just no, it was hell no.

Apparently I would have better luck with a marriage proposal than a recruiting pitch. 

[I am Groot]

Russia and China are now cooperating in the Arctic. Both have their eyes on developing natural resources up there as the ice retreats. And neither has any respect for either Canada or its claims in the North. China has previously flouted international maritime law by claiming waters that belong to other nations in the South China Sea, and then simply building an artificial island in the middle, claiming it's an extension of their land mass, and pushing their claims out further while daring anyone to do anything about it. If that isn't ballsy I don't know what is.

It's not even remotely difficult to imagine a similar event happening in the Arctic, where a Chinese company, backed by the Communist Party, decides to start drilling for oil in waters claimed by Canada, and saying it has permission from Russia. And what exactly is Canada going to do about it? Absolutely nothing. And they know it. Which is a big chunk of why they might do it.

The Americans don't recognize some of our claims, but even if this is part they do does anyone think Donald Trump would stand behind Canada? Not a chance. He'd laugh in Trudeau's face. 

Using proprietary data, Strider found that during the 18 months from January, 2022, to June, 2023, 234 Chinese-owned companies registered to operate in Russian-controlled Arctic territory, an 87-per-cent increase compared with registrations in the two years prior. As of June, 2023, 359 Chinese-owned companies operate in the region, Strider said, the result of a surge in investment over the last three years. Strider proprietary data are aggregated from across corporate, transaction, and open-source data sets.

Russia and China are also deepening their security ties, signing an agreement in April, 2023, to co-operate on maritime law enforcement. In August, 2023, they conducted joint exercises in the Bering Sea off the coast of Alaska – remaining in international waters. The Bering Sea is a gateway between the Arctic and Pacific oceans.

Chinese-Russian collaboration in the Arctic is a scenario Canada’s military intelligence has warned MPs about. “I would definitely agree that if Russia and China were to co-operate in the Arctic, it would pose significant threats to Canada’s ability to protect its sovereignty,” Major-General Michael Wright, Commander of Canadian Forces Intelligence Command and Chief of Defence Intelligence, told the Commons defence committee in October, 2022, more than six months after Russia’s assault on Ukraine began.

China gains major Arctic foothold as Russia turns to Beijing more, report finds - The Globe and Mail

[BeaverFever]

Leaks, ineffective anchors, mechanical breakdowns among ongoing problems facing new Arctic patrol ships

Meanwhile, the vessels constructed by Irving Shipbuilding only come with a one-year warranty.

Get the latest from David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen straight to your inbox 

Published Feb 14, 2024  •  Last updated 5 hours ago  •  5 minute read

 

The HMCS Margaret Brooke, is docked at a ceremony as the second Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship (AOPS) is delivered to the Royal Canadian Navy from Irving Shipbuilding in Halifax on Thursday, July 15, 2021. Photo by Andrew Vaughan /The Canadian Press

The Royal Canadian Navy is trying to fix a series of problems on its new Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships including anchors that aren’t effective, a refueling system that’s too heavy to use, and areas on the vessels that are leaking.

In addition, the Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships (AOPS) can’t perform emergency towing as was required in the original contract and some cranes on the vessels are inoperable, National Defence confirmed to this newspaper.

Structural issues are also hindering the operation of Cyclone helicopters from the ships and the supplier of satellite communications systems on the vessels no longer has the security clearance to provide the navy with parts.

The problems are on top of previous issues with mechanical breakdowns and safety concerns about drinking water on the ships because of lead.

National Defence says repairs and various fixes for the issues are in the works or are being examined.

Taxpayers are spending almost $5 billion on the six ships for the Royal Canadian Navy. The vessels are being constructed by Irving Shipbuilding and a number have already been delivered.

The ships only come with a one-year warranty, National Defence confirmed. That means taxpayers will be on the hook to repair a number of the deficiencies.

“As the repairs are ongoing, we do not yet have a full estimated cost,” National Defence noted in its email to this newspaper. “The Government of Canada and the shipbuilder agreed that certain deficiencies could be corrected after delivery,” the department added.

Irving Shipbuilding noted in a statement to this newspaper that, “through the process of designing, constructing, commissioning, and operating new ships, stakeholders work together to identify and resolve a range of issues. This is a normal but essential element of shipbuilding.” 

National Defence provided this newspaper with a list of issues but noted that not all of the problems on the AOPS were outlined.

Among those listed are issues with internal and external drainage systems on the ships not working properly, resulting in flooding of interior compartments, according to the department. “The flooding of interior compartments could lead to mould build-up, equipment damage and electrical concerns,” it added. Work is underway to fix the problems.

Then there are issues with the design of the anchors on AOPS. Those allow for the vessels to be anchored in sheltered conditions.

But the navy wants an anchor to work in open ocean as well as in situations where the ships are close to shore. “To date, (HMCS Harry DeWolf) and (HMCS Margaret Brooke) experienced difficulties holding position while at anchor in conditions at or above the design specifications,” National Defence noted. More tests on the anchors will be conducted in the spring.

National Defence also pointed out that trials on whether Cyclone helicopters could operate from the ships “identified a significant number of deficiencies and modifications that will require consideration to achieve full operational capability.”

Such modifications will be brought in over the next few years but the department did not provide a date when the ships will be fully capable of using the helicopters.

National Defence also noted the cranes on the ships have “experienced defects and deficiencies since delivery.”

Some repairs have been done but a particular type of crane outfitted on three of the ships has “been deemed inoperable and options are being evaluated for their replacement.”

In addition, the AOPS are required to be able to conduct emergency towing of ships up to its own displacement. But National Defence noted, “the towing equipment delivered by the build contractor has not met the contractual requirements and as such, towing trials for the class have been delayed.”

The AOPS are also outfitted with equipment to allow for refueling at sea. But the equipment is too heavy for the crew to use without some kind of mechanical assistance. “Work is ongoing to establish safe standard operating procedure to erect the (refueling) post,” National Defence confirmed.

Other problems, such as contaminated fuel, and issues with systems to launch lifeboats, are also being examined or fixed.

The AOPS have already faced a series of ongoing problems.

This newspaper reported in 2022 that the first AOPS, HMCS Harry DeWolf, had been taken out of service for several months because of ongoing mechanical problems, including issues with diesel generators. Concerns have also been raised about the safety of drinking water on the vessels.

An investigation revealed that some fittings and valves in the potable water system were manufactured from alloys that exceeded the allowable amount of lead, National Defence confirmed. Irving Shipbuilding installed the fittings and valves on four of the AOPS.

In addition, HMCS Max Bernays was accepted from Irving even though a system that allows the vessel to manoeuvre wasn’t functioning properly. There were also problems with the fire suppression system on HMCS Harry DeWolf.

National Defence has now confirmed repairs have been made to the generators on HMCS Harry DeWolf and the manouevring system on Max Bernays has been fixed. As for the issues regarding fire suppression systems and drinking water, solutions have been or will be implemented.

The AOPS program was launched by the former Conservative government with a minimum of five ships for the navy. The Liberal government, first elected in 2015, approved the construction of a sixth ship for the navy and two more for the coast guard.

In 2017, the Senate Defence Committee raised concerns about the capabilities of the AOPS. “This (concern) is based on the fact that these ships cannot operate in ice more than a metre thick, are slower than a BC Ferry, can only operate in the Arctic from June to October and will require a Coast Guard escort when in the northern waters,” the senators pointed out in their report. “These limitations are troubling and raise the question of whether the taxpayers are receiving value for the monies spent.”

But Irving, in its statement to this newspaper, pointed to a video released by the navy in December 2023 in which Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee noted the AOPS “are outperforming expectations and proving the value of the National Shipbuilding Strategy.”

Irving also cited Topshee making similar comments that month to an association that lobbies for more funding and support for the navy.

“We remain committed to the delivery of high-quality vessels, to continuous improvement, and to the realization of the goals set out by Canada’s National Shipbuilding Strategy,” Irving’s statement noted.

Both National Defence and Irving pointed to successful deployments of the new ships.

But in the departmental results report released by Defence Minister Bill Blair on Jan. 22 2024, the military pointed to what it determined were problems on AOPS that “required significant work to rectify” and resulted in some of the vessels not being available.
 

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/leaks-ineffective-anchors-mechanical-breakdowns-among-ongoing-problems-facing-new-arctic-patrol-ships