SCOTUS Ends Affirmative Action

[CdnFox]

15 hours ago, Rebound said:

Yes. The condition of many African Americans is structural and institutionalized: Black people are unjustifiably stopped by police officers far more often.  They get arrested more often. Convicted more often. Longer sentences than white people.  Unjustifiably beaten or shot to death more often. Those are institutionalized problems, and they are facts. 

No, actually, those are not true in the slightest with the exception of being pulled over more. There is no evidence or data suggesting that blacks get arrested more than whites in the same circumstances.  There is a pretty good block of evidence that shows they don't get tried or convicted more for similar crimes.  There's also no reason to believe that blacks are being convicted falsely any more than anyone else, which means they did get arrested and convicted of an actual crime they did (as much as anyone else).  There's also no evidence they get beaten more or shot more - in fact peer reviewed studies show that in the same circumstances there's no difference.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/745731839/new-study-says-white-police-officers-are-not-more-likely-to-shoot-minority-suspe

Most of the other issues that are commonly attributed to 'prejudice against blacks' are in fact not. They are related to low income. And i mean LOW income, not middle class income.

And while there are many reasons why on average there's more lower income people who are black than some other races the fact is that there is NOTHING "institutionally" stopping ANY black person in America from achieving middle class income and status. There just is no real barrier there.

 

 

[Hodad]

39 minutes ago, ironstone said:

One other big difference between the two is that one is revered by the Democrats, the other is sadly ignored by the Republicans.

Why Are Democrats Kissing T

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

One other big difference between the two is that one is revered by the Democrats, the other is sadly ignored by the Republicans.

Why Are Democrats Kissing The Ring Of Al Sharpton? (thefederalist.com)

It’s sad to see 2020 Dems kissing Sharpton’s … ring (nypost.com)

So why is this career race hustler so revered by the Democratic party? You said yourself, he's no kind of serious thinker, yet he has many top and up and coming Democrats fawning over him?

he Ring Of Al Sharpton? (thefederalist.com)

It’s sad to see 2020 Dems kissing Sharpton’s … ring (nypost.com)

So why is this career race hustler so revered by the Democratic party? You said yourself, he's no kind of serious thinker, yet he has many top and up and coming Democrats fawning over him?

I think "revered" is a massive exaggeration. Sharpton has influence in Black politics and there aren't that many figures in the role. So yeah, if you want to reach Black voters you talk to Sharpton, Jackson and a few others. Those are valuable endorsements.

But also keep in mind that while you see the term "race hustler" as a derogatory, Sharpton's advocacy for Black individuals, causes and communities is a decades-long mission. He has indeed "hustled" on behalf of Black America. There are blemishes and missteps on his record, but he's the guy who shows up and fights for them, often when no one else will.  

[Deluge]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:19 PM, Nationalist said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/29/politics/affirmative-action-supreme-court-ruling/index.html

I'm liking this one. Affirmative Action was blatantly racist. Will the liberal mind ever come to grips with the concept of merit?

But that won't stop Harvard - apparently they've already found a workaround. Good for those race hustlers! 

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, Deluge said:

But that won't stop Harvard - apparently they've already found a workaround. Good for those race hustlers! 

You can't fight racism without racism!  Every leftie knows that! The only way to get rid of racism forever is MOAR racism!

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Deluge said:

But that won't stop Harvard - apparently they've already found a workaround. Good for those race hustlers! 

Harvard has become a pit of stupid.

Where "woke" get instilled...only to eventually flame out and die an ugly death replete with whining and screaming and in some cases...kicking.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Nationalist

[ironstone]

5 hours ago, Hodad said:

He has indeed "hustled" on behalf of Black America. There are blemishes and missteps on his record, but he's the guy who shows up and fights for them, often when no one else will.  

I think he hustles for himself at the end of the day.

The Tawana Brawley hoax. He hasn't been exactly friendly to Jews either.

Al Sharpton is not a lifelong fighter for justice - The Washington Post

Al Sharpton: Not a Racist Just a Jew Hater — StopAntisemitism

Al Sharpton is the Don King of the Democrat party.

[robosmith]

Supreme Court: Stop penalizing people who never had to overcome adversity!

Quote

People should only be judged on things they can control, like how much tutoring they have been able to access, and whether or not someone spotted them at a young age and said, Yes, Tripp will excel at lacrosse. Character, merit, that’s what I insist upon! (Yes, there are still legacy admissions, but those judge you on important aspects of your character, like if your character is related to other characters who also went to your university.) Thanks to my efforts, a day of perfect justice is coming, a time when people who aren’t being rained on are offered precisely as many umbrellas as people who are. When no one, no matter who his father is, or his grandfather was, is denied an additional favor, simply because he is already brimming with favors. Then, we can approach something like the equality the Founders dreamed of. Then, finally, I can stop and rest. 

/tongue in cheek

[Mako]

Should an Asian student whose family perhaps suffered from famine, brutality, fanaticism

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/opinion/16iht-eddikotter16.html

https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/pol-pot

be discriminated against while black students, some of whom come from wealthy families, be privileged?

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/affirmative-action-helps-black-immigrants-but-not-black-americans/

Edited July 8, 2023 by Mako

[Mako]

On 7/5/2023 at 6:42 PM, robosmith said:

Supreme Court: Stop penalizing people who never had to overcome adversity!

/tongue in cheek

Some students are admitted only because they are recruited athletes, children of faculty and staff or affiliated with donors.

Let’s end all these forms of discrimination.

[CdnFox]

44 minutes ago, Mako said:

Some students are admitted only because they are recruited athletes, children of faculty and staff or affiliated with donors.

Let’s end all these forms of discrimination.

But that would mean all that was left would be EDUCATION!  You can't run a school based on education for heaven's sake, be reasonable man!

[impartialobserver]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:28 PM, robosmith said:

Harvard, one of the 2 schools involved in this case, has NO TROUBLE being "overly selective."

The impartiality of your observation is therefore suspect. ?

2 of 4,000 colleges and universities.. hmm.. they do not all face the same realities.

[robosmith]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:13 AM, CdnFox said:

No, actually, those are not true in the slightest with the exception of being pulled over more. There is no evidence or data suggesting that blacks get arrested more than whites in the same circumstances.  There is a pretty good block of evidence that shows they don't get tried or convicted more for similar crimes.  There's also no reason to believe that blacks are being convicted falsely any more than anyone else, which means they did get arrested and convicted of an actual crime they did (as much as anyone else).  There's also no evidence they get beaten more or shot more - in fact peer reviewed studies show that in the same circumstances there's no difference.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/745731839/new-study-says-white-police-officers-are-not-more-likely-to-shoot-minority-suspe

Most of the other issues that are commonly attributed to 'prejudice against blacks' are in fact not. They are related to low income. And i mean LOW income, not middle class income.

And while there are many reasons why on average there's more lower income people who are black than some other races the fact is that there is NOTHING "institutionally" stopping ANY black person in America from achieving middle class income and status. There just is no real barrier there.

Except the evidence YOU CITED ONLY SAYS that black cops are just as BIASED as WHITE cops when it comes to shooting black perps.

IOW, you have posted NO EVIDENCE for your CLAIMS. Try again.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Except the evidence YOU CITED ONLY SAYS that black cops are just as BIASED as WHITE cops when it comes to shooting black perps.

 

Nope.  Sorry about your poor comprehension skills.

And this is why you're wrong so often. Your comprehension is so poor even when you're  presented with clear and relatively simple evidence you just can't get your head around it.

Sorry kid - the facts and evidence shows that there's no reason to believe they get shot/beaten/arrested more than anyone else in the same circumstances.

 

[WestCanMan]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:12 PM, Rebound said:

We would all love to live in a colorblind society, but we don’t. Black people are still victimized by institutionalized racism. 

Demonrats like Obama are telling black kids that the cops will shoot them just for being black, and to a lot of kids that means that there's no point in going to school and that they should grow up angry, paranoid and even hateful.  

If I was black I'd never let my kids watch CNN or listen to the Demonrats.  

[Hodad]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Demonrats like Obama are telling black kids that the cops will shoot them just for being black, and to a lot of kids that means that there's no point in going to school and that they should grow up angry, paranoid and even hateful.  

If I was black I'd never let my kids watch CNN or listen to the Demonrats.  

Yeah, Republicunts would surely prefer that all people watch their PR network on FOX.

^^Do these silly name games seem clever you you? Really? That's pretty sad.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Yeah, Republicunts would surely prefer that all people watch their PR network on FOX.

 

Sure - fox isn't out there telling their kids that they're doomed to fail   CNN is.

 

Quote

^^Do these silly name games seem clever you you? Really? That's pretty sad.

He says as he makes a silly insult.  Yeash - the left can't even hear it's own hypocrisy anymore

[Deluge]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:29 PM, Hodad said:

The person who climbs 30 flights is stairs is not more meritorious than the person who climbs 29 flights with a 40 pound backpack.

The person second to cross the line is not less meritorious than the first across if the "winner" had a 10% head start.

And more importantly, diverse environments are better for institutions and everyone in them. It's worth taking deliberate steps to create them.

1. No shit. What you're trying to say is that whites are the 30 flights of stairs candidates and non-whites are the 29 flights of stairs with 40 pound backpacks candidates. That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. 

2. More bullshit. You're saying whites always get the head start, therefore they are cheaters. 

3. And even more bullshit. Diverse environments are not better for institutions if you don't have the BEST students at your school. 

How about you simplify the process and look at who has the highest scores on the entrance exam? - AFTER you've taken previous accomplishments into consideration of course. 

[CdnFox]

48 minutes ago, Deluge said:

1. No shit. What you're trying to say is that whites are the 30 flights of stairs candidates and non-whites are the 29 flights of stairs with 40 pound backpacks candidates. That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. 

2. More bullshit. You're saying whites always get the head start, therefore they are cheaters. 

3. And even more bullshit. Diverse environments are not better for institutions if you don't have the BEST students at your school. 

How about you simplify the process and look at who has the highest scores on the entrance exam? - AFTER you've taken previous accomplishments into consideration of course. 

This is the thing.  Hodad and others must pretend that white people somehow magically don't have their own stuggles to over come and have the easiest time in the world climbing the stairs no trouble.

But white people face their own bias and prejudice issues all the time.

If you're neuroatypical or neurodivergent, (such as asberger's spectrum or dyslexic etc etc ) then life is f***ing hard and it doesn't matter that you're white. People are going to be difficult to deal with,

If you're obese due to medical issues, if you're a cripple and can't walk, if you're "ugly" as a female,  if you were raped or beaten as a child and have to cope with that, if you're smarter than most of the people around you, if you're dumber than most of the people around you, etc etc etc.

There are TONNES of reasons people will face hard challenges and struggle and race is probably one of the LEAST crippling.

But the left don't care about that. They don't care if someone has a 'backpack' to carry up the stairs, the only thing that matters to them is if it's a  Blackpack.  The rest can suck it no matter how heavy their load.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

This is the thing.  Hodad and others must pretend that white people somehow magically don't have their own stuggles to over come and have the easiest time in the world climbing the stairs no trouble.

But white people face their own bias and prejudice issues all the time.

If you're neuroatypical or neurodivergent, (such as asberger's spectrum or dyslexic etc etc ) then life is f***ing hard and it doesn't matter that you're white. People are going to be difficult to deal with,

If you're obese due to medical issues, if you're a cripple and can't walk, if you're "ugly" as a female,  if you were raped or beaten as a child and have to cope with that, if you're smarter than most of the people around you, if you're dumber than most of the people around you, etc etc etc.

There are TONNES of reasons people will face hard challenges and struggle and race is probably one of the LEAST crippling.

But the left don't care about that. They don't care if someone has a 'backpack' to carry up the stairs, the only thing that matters to them is if it's a  Blackpack.  The rest can suck it no matter how heavy their load.

Good points.

In essence, Diversity means - antiwhiteism. 

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Good points.

In essence, Diversity means - antiwhiteism. 

LOL more or less - although remember that there is an 'intersectional heiarchy'.   Jews are not considered to be repressed, but muslims are. A  black woman is considered more repressed and should be put ahead of a black man - but both are 'higher' than a latino woman.  And asians are in many cases worse than whites as far as repression goes - they have to score the highest to get into universities.

So at the end of the day 'diversity' REALLY is about creating a "class" system and about exclusion. The left have  a funny habit of naming things to be the exact opposite of what they are.   Antifa is fascist, diversity excludes people, free speech has consequences  

Edited July 11, 2023 by CdnFox

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

1. No shit. What you're trying to say is that whites are the 30 flights of stairs candidates and non-whites are the 29 flights of stairs with 40 pound backpacks candidates. That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. 

2. More bullshit. You're saying whites always get the head start, therefore they are cheaters. 

3. And even more bullshit. Diverse environments are not better for institutions if you don't have the BEST students at your school. 

How about you simplify the process and look at who has the highest scores on the entrance exam? - AFTER you've taken previous accomplishments into consideration of course. 

1. Yes, whites have an advantage in nearly every aspect of American life. That's what privilege is. We make the rules, we own the power and, even when well meaning, through ignorance or bias (conscious or subconscious) build a society that reflects and serves our needs first and foremost. There are mountains of research to validate this in specific instances, but it should be pretty obvious if you stop to think about it. 

2. That's a pretty silly reading of that analogy. It doesn't mean that individual whites are cheaters. It means there are advantages built in to the "race" we all run. I've never cheated at anything, but I certainly am aware of (many/most) of the advantages that I've enjoyed in this society simply because of the color of my skin. 

3. You're incorrect. Again, lots of data to back it up. Diverse organizations consistently outperform non-diverse organizations. A diverse memeplex is like a diverse gene complex. Diversity supports faster adaptation and evolution. Contrast that with inbreeding. Or for a simpler analogy, a football team doesn't become the great by drafting "the best athlete on the board." They become great by drafting a mix of complementary talent, deliberately filling in the gaps. -- The point being, diversity is inherently advantageous in teams of all sorts and it shows up in performance metrics.

Try a little Rawlsian thought experiment. Imagine that you were sentient entity, waiting to be born. You will be born somewhere in the United States, but you don't know where. You don't know who your parents will be, where they live, how much money they have, how educated they are or anything else about them. You don't know how smart you'll be in corporeal form, or how athletic, or good looking or anything else. You DO get to choose the race of your parents. 

What would you choose?

Is there any sliver of doubt that being born white vastly increases your odds of an easy life and faster path to success within your potential? Simply by being born white your odds in life are better. You're more likely to be born to wealthier parents, to more educated parents, in better neighborhoods with better schools and in a cohort of similarly advantaged kids. You'd be less likely to face racism--particularly meaningful racism. You'd be less likely to face prejudice and discrimination. 

If you honestly think ^^all of that (and more) doesn't constitute a head start, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Yes, whites have an advantage in nearly every aspect of American life

They don't.

19 minutes ago, Hodad said:

It means there are advantages built in to the "race" we all run.

It doesn't.

19 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Again, lots of data to back it up.

There isn't.

Quote

What would you choose?

What i'm most familiar with.  Which is what most people choose.  Make it about men and women and even tho women claim that men have an advantage most will still chose to be a woman.

21 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Is there any sliver of doubt that being born white vastly increases your odds of an easy life and faster path to success within your potential?

Yes there is, because that's totally false.

 

This is all just a bunch of nonsense left wing race-war talking points that have NO basis in fact.

race has far less to do with someones success than most other factors. Being born into poverty would be a bigger detriment than being white or black Iin america anyway) and even that really isn't much of a barrier.

 

Sorry - i f you're not succeeding in life the problem is  not in your stars but in your self.

[Deluge]

53 minutes ago, Hodad said:

1. Yes, whites have an advantage in nearly every aspect of American life. That's what privilege is. We make the rules, we own the power and, even when well meaning, through ignorance or bias (conscious or subconscious) build a society that reflects and serves our needs first and foremost. There are mountains of research to validate this in specific instances, but it should be pretty obvious if you stop to think about it. 

2. That's a pretty silly reading of that analogy. It doesn't mean that individual whites are cheaters. It means there are advantages built in to the "race" we all run. I've never cheated at anything, but I certainly am aware of (many/most) of the advantages that I've enjoyed in this society simply because of the color of my skin. 

3. You're incorrect. Again, lots of data to back it up. Diverse organizations consistently outperform non-diverse organizations. A diverse memeplex is like a diverse gene complex. Diversity supports faster adaptation and evolution. Contrast that with inbreeding. Or for a simpler analogy, a football team doesn't become the great by drafting "the best athlete on the board." They become great by drafting a mix of complementary talent, deliberately filling in the gaps. -- The point being, diversity is inherently advantageous in teams of all sorts and it shows up in performance metrics.

Try a little Rawlsian thought experiment. Imagine that you were sentient entity, waiting to be born. You will be born somewhere in the United States, but you don't know where. You don't know who your parents will be, where they live, how much money they have, how educated they are or anything else about them. You don't know how smart you'll be in corporeal form, or how athletic, or good looking or anything else. You DO get to choose the race of your parents. 

What would you choose?

Is there any sliver of doubt that being born white vastly increases your odds of an easy life and faster path to success within your potential? Simply by being born white your odds in life are better. You're more likely to be born to wealthier parents, to more educated parents, in better neighborhoods with better schools and in a cohort of similarly advantaged kids. You'd be less likely to face racism--particularly meaningful racism. You'd be less likely to face prejudice and discrimination. 

If you honestly think ^^all of that (and more) doesn't constitute a head start, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

1. You seem to be stuck in the 1950's. Point out where whites have a distinct advantage over blacks due to "privilege". Give me an example, and we'll talk about it. 

2. It's not silly when the examples you use make it look like whites are ALWAYS the cheaters. Are you trying to tell me that up until this ruling, Harvard was still favoring whites over blacks? 

3. What white only organizations are you referring to? I'm not aware of any.

Interesting thought experiment. 

I have to believe that I chose to be white, and in America, because I knew I would love to be free and have plenty of opportunities to succeed. I love being white; I love who I am and what I stand for. It's a shame that so many others aren't proud of who they are. 

What has me baffled is why YOU chose to be white. Clearly you hate yourself, and your skin color probably nauseates you, so why didn't you humbly step into the body of a black person? 

[Hodad]

34 minutes ago, Deluge said:

1. You seem to be stuck in the 1950's. Point out where whites have a distinct advantage over blacks due to "privilege". Give me an example, and we'll talk about it. 

2. It's not silly when the examples you use make it look like whites are ALWAYS the cheaters. Are you trying to tell me that up until this ruling, Harvard was still favoring whites over blacks? 

3. What white only organizations are you referring to? I'm not aware of any.

Interesting thought experiment. 

I have to believe that I chose to be white, and in America, because I knew I would love to be free and have plenty of opportunities to succeed. I love being white; I love who I am and what I stand for. It's a shame that so many others aren't proud of who they are. 

What has me baffled is why YOU chose to be white. Clearly you hate yourself, and your skin color probably nauseates you, so why didn't you humbly step into the body of a black person? 

1. I listed a half dozen examples in the thought experiment. Those are all literally true. It's like saying men are physically stronger than women. It doesn't mean that every man is stronger than every woman, but in totality it's undeniably true. In the United States, white children, from the moment of birth and every moment onward, have socially constructed advantages over Blacks--or any other racial group. If you had truly identical twins and waved a magic wand over one of them to change their skin color, the white twin would get the benefit of the doubt almost every time. -- They've literally done this experiment at scale, sending identical resumes in for jobs, one with a traditionally Anglo name and one with a "Black-sounding" name and the latter got 50% fewer responses. Although that's improved a lot in the last 20 years, there's still a gap.

2. I've been pretty clear about this. Invididual whites aren't cheating. But whites have written the rules of the game and, sometimes consciously and often subconsciously, we've invented a game in which we always--all else being equal--have an advantage.

3. I made no reference to "whites only" organizations, so no idea what you're on about.

4. You didn't actually get to choose. That's just the experiment. You were simply blessed with comparative advantages by the nature of your birth. That should strike you as unfair. Which is the point of the experiment. If there are clear advantages to choosing one race over another then it's obvious that the society is unfairly constructed. If and when it doesn't matter or the choice is a tossup, then you'll know that we've built a just society. 

I have zero problem with my skin color. Skin color isn't the problem. A society in which skin color has a massive influence on opportunity is, however, problematic. I think you missed the point.

 

[robosmith]

On 7/10/2023 at 11:19 AM, CdnFox said:

Nope.  Sorry about your poor comprehension skills.

You should be sorry about your inability to CITE ANYTHING to prove ^these OPINIONS OF YOURS.

How about a QUOTE from YOUR CITE that says MORE than Black cops are just as biased as White cops?

There's a REASON WHY you FAILED to cite one.

On 7/10/2023 at 11:19 AM, CdnFox said:

And this is why you're wrong so often. Your comprehension is so poor even when you're  presented with clear and relatively simple evidence you just can't get your head around it.

It is you who has cited NO EVIDENCE for ^this OPINION.

On 7/10/2023 at 11:19 AM, CdnFox said:

Sorry kid - the facts and evidence shows that there's no reason to believe they get shot/beaten/arrested more than anyone else in the same circumstances.

 

You don't have facts nor evidence of what you claim, just OPINIONS.