SCOTUS Ends Affirmative Action

[Hodad]

26 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

This is unfortunately true.

We are seeing the results of "The Great Society".

Meh...leopards and spots...

Sure, just like how you tried to get fired so you could collect unemployment. And how you stopped making your mortgage payment to get subsided housing. And how you didn't feed your kids because they could get meals at school.

Wait, none of that happened? Well no shit. That's because nobody chooses a shittier life to score baseline benefits. You wouldn't, so why would you assume Black people do? Do you believe they are somehow less than you? 

The social safety net is there to catch people who fall. It doesn't knock them down. 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

Ok, I'll bite. What did his nephews and nieces say about him?? Was it the usual uncle Tom kind of insult so commonly directed at blacks that happen to be conservative?

Of course. What more can be said about a man who make his money rationalizing the mistreatment of Black Americans. He's done quite well for himself, built a lucrative career of making white people feel better about being shitty to Black people. And if he had to shit on Black people to do it, hey, it's just business.

He makes shallow, specious arguments that are prime for the internet era. They don't have to be compelling enough to withstand the intellectual rigor of the academic world. Just superficially academic enough to embolden the dogmatic conservatives looking for any flimsy reason to cast whites as the heroes and blacks the villains in the story of American racial disparity.

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

Sure, just like how you tried to get fired so you could collect unemployment. And how you stopped making your mortgage payment to get subsided housing. And how you didn't feed your kids because they could get meals at school.

Lol...ur describing Olivia Chow?

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

Wait, none of that happened? Well no shit. That's because nobody chooses a shittier life to score baseline benefits. You wouldn't, so why would you assume Black people do? Do you believe they are somehow less than you? 

I don't assume anything. The proof is clear as day. When you remove responsibility people take advantage. Decline in family, faith and responsibility has lead to the erosion the social cohesion.

This is as true in NY as it is in Kentucky. Loss of hope. Loss of direction.

And your accusation of racist motivations is shallow. 

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

The social safety net is there to catch people who fall. It doesn't knock them down.

They fell decades ago. Your social net is sucking whole generations down.

[robosmith]

An Aggressive Supreme Court Reshapes the US as Its Standing Erodes

Quote

A conservative supermajority is remaking US laws on the environment, health and firearms, even as public confidence declines and ethical questions grow

The Supreme Court, in the midst of a run of decisions that have stress-tested the core principles of US democracy, has rarely been so aggressive in using its powers — or been viewed with more skepticism by Americans.

With its 6-3 conservative majority, the court has issued a series of recent decisions enhancing its own role, in many cases by overriding regulatory agencies, the White House, Congress and state and local governments. Rulings have curtailed environmental protections, restricted efforts to regulate firearms and limited public-health initiatives. The court is set to decide on university affirmative action, student-loan relief and the rules for federal elections before the scheduled end of its term next week. 

 

 

Right wingers here are cheering DEEPLY UNPOPULAR SCOTUS decisions, but what they don't understand is that EVERY ONE of them is fueling the larger Democratic majority's anger and turnout for the next ELECTION.

 

Say WELCOME to the BLUE WAVE when it hits YOU. LMAO

 

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...ur describing Olivia Chow?

I don't assume anything. The proof is clear as day. When you remove responsibility people take advantage. Decline in family, faith and responsibility has lead to the erosion the social cohesion.

This is as true in NY as it is in Kentucky. Loss of hope. Loss of direction.

And your accusation of racist motivations is shallow. 

They fell decades ago. Your social net is sucking whole generations down.

So what amazing social safety net opportunities are you taking advantage of? The proof is clear as day?

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

They fell decades ago. Your social net is sucking whole generations down.

Yes, and that FALL was caused by right wingers pushing them OUT OF the voting booth and the best schools.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

So what amazing social safety net opportunities are you taking advantage of? The proof is clear as day?

None. You?

[Hodad]

20 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

None. You?

Nope. But for some reason you think others will find those options incredibly attractive  So again, why do you imagine something that holds no appeal for would be so irresistible to Black folks that they're ending relationships and leaving jobs to live in subsidized miserable poverty?

[Nationalist]

27 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Nope. But for some reason you think others will find those options incredibly attractive  So again, why do you imagine something that holds no appeal for would be so irresistible to Black folks that they're ending relationships and leaving jobs to live in subsidized miserable poverty?

I don't think a lot of inner city colored people have stable family lives. Dad's in jail. Sisters dad is too. Mom collects baby checks, welfare and parties. Role models are gang bangers. And the vicious cycle continues.

For those lucky enough to have both parents, success would be much easier. 

[Hodad]

58 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I don't think a lot of inner city colored people have stable family lives. Dad's in jail. Sisters dad is too. Mom collects baby checks, welfare and parties. Role models are gang bangers. And the vicious cycle continues.

For those lucky enough to have both parents, success would be much easier. 

Yes, there are problems. You are arguing that those problems are caused by the existence of safety nets. You think people are splitting their relationships and jobs etc, to chase a few dollars a month. Essentially giving up on life in exchange for abject poverty and bare subsistence. 

I'm asking why you think that. If it doesn't appeal to your (and it shouldn't) why do you think it is irresistible to Black folks?

I think the entire premise is or nonsense. Safety nets don't cause poverty any more than airbags cause car crashes. They are there for when shit doesn't work out. But you explain to me why you think otherwise. By what mechanism?

[robosmith]

43 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Yes, there are problems. You are arguing that those problems are caused by the existence of safety nets. You think people are splitting their relationships and jobs etc, to chase a few dollars a month. Essentially giving up on life in exchange for abject poverty and bare subsistence. 

I'm asking why you think that. If it doesn't appeal to your (and it shouldn't) why do you think it is irresistible to Black folks?

I think the entire premise is or nonsense. Safety nets don't cause poverty any more than airbags cause car crashes. They are there for when shit doesn't work out. But you explain to me why you think otherwise. By what mechanism?

Good luck on Nat man ever "explaining" anything. LMAO

[Nationalist]

10 hours ago, Hodad said:

Yes, there are problems. You are arguing that those problems are caused by the existence of safety nets. You think people are splitting their relationships and jobs etc, to chase a few dollars a month. Essentially giving up on life in exchange for abject poverty and bare subsistence. 

I'm asking why you think that. If it doesn't appeal to your (and it shouldn't) why do you think it is irresistible to Black folks?

I think the entire premise is or nonsense. Safety nets don't cause poverty any more than airbags cause car crashes. They are there for when shit doesn't work out. But you explain to me why you think otherwise. By what mechanism?

The degredation of society as a whole, is a direct result of governmental attempts to cater to those who fail. "Its not their fault!" Is the reasoning. In a way, I agree with that.

Instead of a "social net" we've created a bottomless pit of dispare and poverty. Divorce on tap...conveyor belt abortion...degradation of religion...

We gave The Me Generation everything they wanted and none of what they needed. Welfare should be temporary. Should a person fail to gain employment, a job should be given to them. Should a woman get pregnant out of wedlock, the father should be hunted down and forced to pay or be unceremoniously tossed in jail. If the pattern continues with the same people...neuter them.

We've created generations of victimhood. 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

The degredation of society as a whole, is a direct result of governmental attempts to cater to those who fail. "Its not their fault!" Is the reasoning. In a way, I agree with that.

Instead of a "social net" we've created a bottomless pit of dispare and poverty. Divorce on tap...conveyor belt abortion...degradation of religion...

We gave The Me Generation everything they wanted and none of what they needed. Welfare should be temporary. Should a person fail to gain employment, a job should be given to them. Should a woman get pregnant out of wedlock, the father should be hunted down and forced to pay or be unceremoniously tossed in jail. If the pattern continues with the same people...neuter them.

We've created generations of victimhood. 

So you can't explain it, but you have your feels. Okay.

[Zeitgeist]

Thank God SCOTUS ended racist college admissions policies. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

So you can't explain it, but you have your feels. Okay.

Oh Lord...here we go...pedantic denial. Ok...one more time...with feeling.

See figure 2 of the link.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/historical-unemployment-for-black-women-and-men-in-the-united-states-1954-2021/

Now...setting aside the conclusion these people draw...which I do not fully agree with...what that graph shows is a dramatic increase of black unemployment right around 1972. Why? What happened to so wildly affect black unemployment? 

In 1964 LBJ instituted his war on poverty. Initially it was a reasonable plan. Give the poor jobs. Try to improve inner city schooling. For a while, it was working. However at the time, opponents argued the cost was too great. A decade later they saw the consequences. 

LBJ also gave America the Vietnam War. A massive expense. Yet in fact the cost of entitlements would soon surpass the military budget. Eventually it got to the point that the gold standard had to be forsaken for this fiat currency we have to this very day.

Getting back to the question of why the black community had such high unemployment beginning in the early 70s, peaking in the mid-80s, by then a whole generation had had the "benefit" of social programs. In fact the number of programs and expense grew in line with unemployment. The creation of the victimhood mentality. With it, increased crime rates in the very urban areas LBJ tried to improve. The opposite of supposed intent was developing.

Interestingly, black unemployment subsided through the 90s and early 2000s. Then came Obama and zoom...it spikes again. More social spending.

Also interesting...the Trump years saw a huge decline in black unemployment. 

And in a nutshell...there you have it.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Nationalist

[Hodad]

18 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Oh Lord...here we go...pedantic denial. Ok...one more time...with feeling.

See figure 2 of the link.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/historical-unemployment-for-black-women-and-men-in-the-united-states-1954-2021/

Now...setting aside the conclusion these people draw...which I do not fully agree with...what that graph shows is a dramatic increase of black unemployment right around 1972. Why? What happened to so wildly affect black unemployment? 

In 1964 LBJ instituted his war on poverty. Initially it was a reasonable plan. Give the poor jobs. Try to improve inner city schooling. For a while, it was working. However at the time, opponents argued the cost was too great. A decade later they saw the consequences. 

LBJ also gave America the Vietnam War. A massive expense. Yet in fact the cost of entitlements would soon surpass the military budget. Eventually it got to the point that the gold standard had to be forsaken for this fiat currency we have to this very day.

Getting back to the question of why the black community had such high unemployment beginning in the early 70s, peaking in the mid-80s, by then a whole generation had had the "benefit" of social programs. In fact the number of programs and expense grew in line with unemployment. The creation of the victimhood mentality. With it, increased crime rates in the very urban areas LBJ tried to improve. The opposite of supposed intent was developing.

Interestingly, black unemployment subsided through the 90s and early 2000s. Then came Obama and zoom...it spikes again. More social spending.

Also interesting...the Trump years saw a huge decline in black unemployment. 

And in a nutshell...there you have it.

A few points worth making here.

1. This is a sort of loose associative history as you see it rather than an explanation of the mechanism by which the safety net causes unemployment, dissolution of relationships etc. Still waiting on that.

2. You've badly misread and misinterpreted the data. You've noted a dramatic increase in Black unemployment around 1972. Well, sort of.?‍♂️ They didn't START independently tracking Black unemployment until 1972. So you do see it appear on the graph at that time.

3. What the data actually shows is that unemployment rates for non-whites, and later for Blacks independently, has been roughly double that of white unemployment, going back to the 50s. The numbers follow the economy and down, but track at nearly 2x throughout. However, economic turbulence-- recessions, like the Reagan recession (peak Black unemployment)or the 2008 crash, appears to hit non-whites a little harder. And in 2019, the low point for Black unemployment, it was still about double that of whites. From your cite:

 

4. So the correlation you want to spin as causation in your narrative history is definitively not causal. The data you shared directly contradicts that story.  And indeed, because they interpreted the data correctly, the conclusion of the authors is quite the opposite of yours: "This blog takes a step toward communicating what many may have already suspected: due to systematic exclusion and discrimination of Black people in the labor market, racism in the education system and throughout U.S. society, Black men and women have endured double the unemployment rates of white men and women since at least 1954."

 

So with you narrative thoroughly debunked, would you care to posit a new theory, or are you prepared to consider that your assumptions were incorrect?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Hodad

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, Hodad said:

A few points worth making here.

1. This is a sort of loose associative history as you see it rather than an explanation of the mechanism by which the safety net causes unemployment, dissolution of relationships etc. Still waiting on that.

2. You've badly misread and interpreted the data. You've noted a dramatic increase in Black unemployment around 1972. Well, sort of.?‍♂️ They didn't START independently tracking Black unemployment until 1972. So you do see it appear on the graph at that time.

3. What the data actually shows is that unemployment rates for non-whites, and later for Blacks independently, has been roughly double that of white unemployment, going back to the 50s. The numbers follow the economy and down, but track at nearly 2x throughout. However, economic turbulence-- recessions, like the Reagan recession (peak Black unemployment)or the 2008 crash, appears to hit non-whites a little harder. And in 2019, the low point for Black unemployment, it was still about double that of whites. From your cite:

 

4. So the correlation you want to spin as causation in your narrative history is definitively not causal. The data you shared directly contradicts that story.  And indeed, because they interpreted the data correctly, the conclusion of the authors is quite the opposite of yours: "This blog takes a step toward communicating what many may have already suspected: due to systematic exclusion and discrimination of Black people in the labor market, racism in the education system and throughout U.S. society, Black men and women have endured double the unemployment rates of white men and women since at least 1954."

 

So with you narrative thoroughly debunked, would you care to posit a new theory, or are you prepared to consider that your assumptions were incorrect?

No. I'm satisfied with my explanation and my position is unchanged. Social programs and engineering by Democrats, and Nixon, lead to the collapse of the inner cities and by extension, black Americans.

[Hodad]

7 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No. I'm satisfied with my explanation and my position is unchanged. Social programs and engineering by Democrats, and Nixon, lead to the collapse of the inner cities and by extension, black Americans.

How in the hell are you satisfied with your explanation when it was wrong top to bottom--as is apparent in the data that you shared?

What you're saying here is that you don't care about facts, or reality at all. That it's your feelings that matter.

[reason10]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:22 PM, Hodad said:

Sure, just like how you tried to get fired so you could collect unemployment. And how you stopped making your mortgage payment to get subsided housing. And how you didn't feed your kids because they could get meals at school.

Wait, none of that happened? Well no shit. That's because nobody chooses a shittier life to score baseline benefits. You wouldn't, so why would you assume Black people do? Do you believe they are somehow less than you? 

The social safety net is there to catch people who fall. It doesn't knock them down. 

Apparently you have never actually lived any real life. The Great Society's damage wasn't in giving black people a CHOICE for a shittier life. That's not what happened. (Perhaps your information should come from sources a little more credible than THE VIEW.)

The Great Society replaced the black father with a welfare check. It DELIBERATELY targeted young, stupid black girls who got pregnant before they were married. It gave them the incentive to download baby after baby and lose the fathers. This set up the entire WELFARE network of food stamps, AFDC, Section Eight housing and Medicaid.

Over the decades, the ghettos that housed these broken families became dangerous, not having regular fathers living there. Because children STILL gravitate to some sort of nuclear family, the GANGS were created.  They became the surrogate FAMILIES of these unfortunate children. Gangs flooded the ghettos with drugs and violence.

THAT'S what happened. The Great Society didn't go after intact existing black families. It CREATED the broken homes and the 75 percent of all black kids living in single family homes that we see today.

[reason10]

21 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No. I'm satisfied with my explanation and my position is unchanged. Social programs and engineering by Democrats, and Nixon, lead to the collapse of the inner cities and by extension, black Americans.

People don't realize that Nixon gave America some of the worst ticking time bombs of all time. Our ENORMOUS budget deficits exist because Nixon signed into law BASELINE BUDGETING. Entitlements grow EVERY YEAR without any restraint whatsoever. That's why today ENTITLEMENTS ARE ALMOST 70 PERCENT of the federal budget.

Nixon was one of the most liberal  presidents in history.

[ironstone]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:10 PM, Hodad said:

Of course. What more can be said about a man who make his money rationalizing the mistreatment of Black Americans. He's done quite well for himself, built a lucrative career of making white people feel better about being shitty to Black people. And if he had to shit on Black people to do it, hey, it's just business.

He makes shallow, specious arguments that are prime for the internet era. They don't have to be compelling enough to withstand the intellectual rigor of the academic world. Just superficially academic enough to embolden the dogmatic conservatives looking for any flimsy reason to cast whites as the heroes and blacks the villains in the story of American racial disparity.

The moral of the story is, blacks are not allowed to be conservative.

I think Sowell is brilliant and I love listening to him. A stark contrast to the countless Al Sharpton types which dominate the left.

[Nationalist]

45 minutes ago, Hodad said:

How in the hell are you satisfied with your explanation when it was wrong top to bottom--as is apparent in the data that you shared?

What you're saying here is that you don't care about facts, or reality at all. That it's your feelings that matter.

Correction: I disagree with the conclusion of the Brookings Institute. The data is quite clear.

Did you really think the Democrats changed their original nature?

[Hodad]

4 hours ago, ironstone said:

The moral of the story is, blacks are not allowed to be conservative.

I think Sowell is brilliant and I love listening to him. A stark contrast to the countless Al Sharpton types which dominate the left.

Nah, Blacks are welcome to be conservative, but when one starts minimizing, rationalizing and justifying policies like racial profiling, stop and frisk and even slavery it's pretty clear what's going on. Ask Black Americans what they think of Sowell.

No offense, but you think Sowell is brilliant because he puts a thin intellectual facade over arguments that you want to hear and accept. You are his target audience. He's more pop-culture ideologue than a real thinker, not trying to investigate, but rather to justify. 

Perhaps he could be-- or could have been brilliant --had he put his intellect to honest work, but at some point very early he embraced the allure of heterodoxy. Maybe because of the Chicago School? Maybe being "different" is somewhat addictive? At any rate, that's all he is now: a man who plays devils advocate, occasionally for the most atrocious stains on human history and on this society.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Hodad

[Hodad]

28 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Correction: I disagree with the conclusion of the Brookings Institute. The data is quite clear.

Did you really think the Democrats changed their original nature?

?Yes, the data is quite clear. The unemployment disparity between Blacks and whites has beep persistent and relatively steady since long before the Great Society. You made a number of claims to the contrary, trying to tie unemployment to social programs. Obviously, that's pure bunk. But instead of revising your thinking, you simply pretend that night is day. Fascinating.

And, yes, the political parties reversed polarity over the course of the civil rights movement. That's all well documented. It why overt, unrepentant racists like Strom Thurmond moved to the Republican party, the South turned red, why even today, Neo-Nazis show up to wave flags at Republican events and why Black Americans vote overwhelmingly for Democrats. 

[Nationalist]

21 minutes ago, Hodad said:

?Yes, the data is quite clear. The unemployment disparity between Blacks and whites has beep persistent and relatively steady since long before the Great Society. You made a number of claims to the contrary, trying to tie unemployment to social programs. Obviously, that's pure bunk. But instead of revising your thinking, you simply pretend that night is day. Fascinating.

And, yes, the political parties reversed polarity over the course of the civil rights movement. That's all well documented. It why overt, unrepentant racists like Strom Thurmond moved to the Republican party, the South turned red, why even today, Neo-Nazis show up to wave flags at Republican events and why Black Americans vote overwhelmingly for Democrats. 

And hence you've become what is called...a useful id1ot.

You refuse to account for cause and effect, you derationalise all analysis. Its what you Libbies do. You remove any factor that you don't like, replace it with anything to balance your equation...in this case as with endless others, racism...and call it complete.

It's complete horseshit and most people know it now...because they can see it clearly for themselves now.

Cause and effect.