Should One Being Trans be Disclosed While Dating?

[Perspektiv]

57 minutes ago, August1991 said:

About 89% of people are right-handed

About 11% of people are left-landed.

Some people are ambidextrous.

Yeah, but are they trans and not disclosing? 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Of course, but some lies are deemed socially acceptable. 

Like racist lying to thousands of your readers about Muslims.

[Perspektiv]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Like racist lying to thousands of your readers about Muslims.

Or news lying that Trump charges are unprecedented, when war crimes were committed by predecessors.

[Hodad]

23 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

This is inspired by an article about Tik Tok star Adea Danielle. 

I myself have enjoyed some of her content, but to give a bit of clarification. She prefers to let someone know she is trans once she is certain things will progress vs just a date and moving on.

She has received backlash for this, which begs the question.

Is refusing to disclose you are trans underhanded? Lying?

She is clearly highly passable and beautiful, so some men wouldn't be any wiser. Is this deceptive? 

She also recently detailed an assault she suffered from disclosing she was trans to a man she did want to progress with. 

What's your take? 

Is it more a timing thing, or a it doesn't matter thing? Or outright, it should be known ahead of time?

Should ones being trans be disclosed while dating?

I'm actually going to side with her on this. There's a lot of potentially disqualifying traits in terms of sexual or relationship compatibility. Whether it's kids, infertility divorce, religion, politics, circumcision, endometriosis, whatever...

Typically, people don't disclose all of these things upon meeting. They go out, get to know one another a bit and then decide if they are interested enough in the other person to want to progress the relationship--to work through or around potential challenges or not.

I don't see how this is fundamentally different. After they've spent some time together they can decide whether it's an issue, and if so, if it's an issue worth dealing with.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Hodad

[Perspektiv]

6 hours ago, Hodad said:

I don't see how this is fundamentally different.

I would agree with you, if the meetings remained platonic. I.E First date meeting basis. You don't like each other, move on--no harm no foul.

She admitted not too long ago, that her delaying in being upfront could become dangerous, however. She really liked a guy, and he had invited her over. She accepted, but her mind was racing. In his car, she knew she had to tell him, so did. He assaulted her, and struck her several times, drawing blood, and ordered her to get out of his car, in the middle of nowhere. She was devastated. Keep in mind, she pleaded with him when she saw how angry that he became, that she had had bottom surgery done, and was entirely female, to no avail.

I don't condone violence against anyone, and she did the right thing, in being honest, as he would have noticed if they had gotten intimate--which she knew. However, I'm from the city slums. Some people from the environment am from, will gladly shoot and kill you for something like this (on the basis, of you're free to be you--but now you're involving me?). She was lucky, he didn't have those thoughts going into his mind.

I think its no different than the situations you mentioned, until you cross any lines. She should have told him before hopping into his car, likely assuming they would be intimate later. He signed up for a female at birth, so the moment that line is crossed in my opinion, she essentially lied by omission.

[reason10]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:11 PM, Perspektiv said:

This is inspired by an article about Tik Tok star Adea Danielle. 

I myself have enjoyed some of her content, but to give a bit of clarification. She prefers to let someone know she is trans once she is certain things will progress vs just a date and moving on.

She has received backlash for this, which begs the question.

Is refusing to disclose you are trans underhanded? Lying?

She is clearly highly passable and beautiful, so some men wouldn't be any wiser. Is this deceptive? 

She also recently detailed an assault she suffered from disclosing she was trans to a man she did want to progress with. 

What's your take? 

Is it more a timing thing, or a it doesn't matter thing? Or outright, it should be known ahead of time?

Should ones being trans be disclosed while dating?

A lot of this depends on HOW TRANS the person is. And I REALLY pity single people today.

Back in the unenlightened dark ages when I was single, dating wasn't nearly so complicated. Single men saw a nice face and good rack of breasts and that was it. And homos were a lot easier to spot, plus they had each other.

Today, just imagine the mess of getting a chick back to your place, reaching into her  panties and discovering a tree trunk.

I DON'T envy single men today.

[reason10]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:23 PM, bcsapper said:

I can't imagine why a person wouldn't inform a prospective dating partner beforehand. 

Of all the full disclosure items inherent with dating, I'd agree that little tidbit would be important.

[reason10]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:20 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Agreed, but knowing a few people on the dating scene this is typical.

I do know a gay trans man who has a tough time finding a date... ever... so I understand the temptation but.... It's a bad start to a relationship.

There are LOTS of dating websites.  I'm pretty sure homos have no  problem finding other homos online. Certainly full disclosure is a positive start.

[reason10]

22 hours ago, bcsapper said:

You know people who have been given that surprise and let it go?  Continued the relationship?

Plural.

I've never even met anyone who was trans, that I know of.

But maybe it can work then, in some cases. 

It depends on what they expect from the relationship. If they want to have organic kids, Part A will have to go  into Part B at some point of the marriage. But two tranny homos falling in love can work. Not every couple needs to reproduce.

[Hodad]

10 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I would agree with you, if the meetings remained platonic. I.E First date meeting basis. You don't like each other, move on--no harm no foul.

She admitted not too long ago, that her delaying in being upfront could become dangerous, however. She really liked a guy, and he had invited her over. She accepted, but her mind was racing. In his car, she knew she had to tell him, so did. He assaulted her, and struck her several times, drawing blood, and ordered her to get out of his car, in the middle of nowhere. She was devastated. Keep in mind, she pleaded with him when she saw how angry that he became, that she had had bottom surgery done, and was entirely female, to no avail.

I don't condone violence against anyone, and she did the right thing, in being honest, as he would have noticed if they had gotten intimate--which she knew. However, I'm from the city slums. Some people from the environment am from, will gladly shoot and kill you for something like this (on the basis, of you're free to be you--but now you're involving me?). She was lucky, he didn't have those thoughts going into his mind.

I think its no different than the situations you mentioned, until you cross any lines. She should have told him before hopping into his car, likely assuming they would be intimate later. He signed up for a female at birth, so the moment that line is crossed in my opinion, she essentially lied by omission.

Agreed that timing matters. You don't cross certain lines. Earlier is safer. Public is safer.

But I don't necessarily agree about a lie by omission--at least not to a degree that it's outside social norms for getting to know someone. Like many of those other examples, I think people omit a lot of details that could make them challenging or incompatible partners and don't reveal those things until they get to know people and establish some level of comfort. And then at a certain point, or when it becomes relevant, it becomes appropriate to share those details. Nobody leads with "I'm an alcoholic," or "I'm on antidepressants so I don't have much of a libido," or whatever. Those deeper truths usually come out after a few dates. And if we want to flip the script, he clearly didn't lead with "I'm an abusive a-hole with anger control problems." 

To be clear though, his reaction wasn't out of anger at her. Like most abusers, he was punishing her for triggering his insecurities. His being attracted to her challenged his sense of masculinity and heterosexuality. He was disgusted with himself and that manifested as anger at her for "making" him feel that way. "Look what you made me do!"

[reason10]

19 hours ago, August1991 said:

About 89% of people are right-handed

About 11% of people are left-landed.

Some people are ambidextrous.

=====

In Canada, our federal government has no official cultural. But our federal government treats right-handed and left-handed citizens indifferently.   

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[herbie]

Quote

Should One Being Trans be Disclosed While Dating?

 

Got to be one of the dumbest subjects yet.

Some people so stunned they can't tell or find out before they date?

So thick as a brick they don't know after a date?

No, truly good people would have no idea whatsoever until their wedding night. I guess.

[Perspektiv]

52 minutes ago, Hodad said:

His being attracted to her challenged his sense of masculinity and heterosexuality. He was disgusted

I disagree. 

He was heterosexual. He was expecting a biological woman. 

She okayed hopping in his car, and going to his place. He knew unless he messed things up, odds were, he was going to sleep with a biological woman. There was zero doubt in his mind. Heck, even she gushed about how "fine" he looked.

I see his anger, in the same light as if I dated a woman for months, knew she was the one, and chose to have unprotected sex with her after she decided to go on the pill and got HIV.

I shouldn't have to ask a woman if she has HIV (me telling her am clean and got tested should be enough), just like I shouldn't have to ask a woman if she is trans. Me telling her she is a beautiful woman, should be enough for her to know I am not aware. These are things that should be disclosed very early. Like, before hopping in his car early.

If I find out I have HIV, and she starts talking about "I was scared to lose you", my anger wouldn't be because am insecure. 

"B****, you gave me AIDS!" I was removed from the conversation providing me choice to continue or at least, do so safely.  

He isn't gay, yes she is pretty, but he bought a Lexus expecting one (and paying for one) and got a Toyota with cloth seats. I don't know any heterosexual man who would keep the purchase vs demand a refund.

I agree violence was overkill, but heavy handed disappointment to me would have been the emotion most heterosexual men would have felt knowing, there may be a penis under that dress. I don't care if you call it your "she penis". Its like a man bun. Uh, it's a bun. Calling it man, doesn't make it manlier. 

Now I have to look like an a-hole in ending the date, transphobic even when to me, she was the d*** no pun intended, in lying by omission.

I see it no different than this. He was removed from the conversation of feeling he was getting a biological woman, and finding out the woman he is with has been altered via surgery. Some cultures, this would make you gay. Whether its backwards or not, again--he should have had the right to choose.

Am not curious about my sexuality. I know I am not attracted to trans women. I find some highly attractive, but its not for me. 

Based on your logic, if she lied to him about being trans and he got upset something is wrong with him.

If he lied to her about having HIV, he should go to jail. 

[Perspektiv]

41 minutes ago, herbie said:

Some people so stunned they can't tell or find out before they date?

I have been to Thailand, where they have some of the best surgeons on the planet. 

I don't care how good your radar is, some trans women would fool you. 

I had one approach me, and she clearly had her Adam's apple shaved, cheekbones rounded, surgery done from top to bottom. There was no telling, other than her voice. It immediately turned me off.

But with hormones and training, even this can be altered.

Bottom surgery won't make it look identical. Just similar, at best.

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

I disagree. 

He was heterosexual. He was expecting a biological woman. 

She okayed hopping in his car, and going to his place. He knew unless he messed things up, odds were, he was going to sleep with a biological woman. There was zero doubt in his mind. Heck, even she gushed about how "fine" he looked.

I see his anger, in the same light as if I dated a woman for months, knew she was the one, and chose to have unprotected sex with her after she decided to go on the pill and got HIV.

I shouldn't have to ask a woman if she has HIV (me telling her am clean and got tested should be enough), just like I shouldn't have to ask a woman if she is trans. Me telling her she is a beautiful woman, should be enough for her to know I am not aware. These are things that should be disclosed very early. Like, before hopping in his car early.

If I find out I have HIV, and she starts talking about "I was scared to lose you", my anger wouldn't be because am insecure. 

"B****, you gave me AIDS!" I was removed from the conversation providing me choice to continue or at least, do so safely.  

He isn't gay, yes she is pretty, but he bought a Lexus expecting one (and paying for one) and got a Toyota with cloth seats. I don't know any heterosexual man who would keep the purchase vs demand a refund.

I agree violence was overkill, but heavy handed disappointment to me would have been the emotion most heterosexual men would have felt knowing, there may be a penis under that dress. I don't care if you call it your "she penis". Its like a man bun. Uh, it's a bun. Calling it man, doesn't make it manlier. 

Now I have to look like an a-hole in ending the date, transphobic even when to me, she was the d*** no pun intended, in lying by omission.

I see it no different than this. He was removed from the conversation of feeling he was getting a biological woman, and finding out the woman he is with has been altered via surgery. Some cultures, this would make you gay. Whether its backwards or not, again--he should have had the right to choose.

Am not curious about my sexuality. I know I am not attracted to trans women. I find some highly attractive, but its not for me. 

Based on your logic, if she lied to him about being trans and he got upset something is wrong with him.

If he lied to her about having HIV, he should go to jail. 

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. She didn't harm him in any way. Your analogies all involve actual harm. Yes, he thought he e going to get laid. The fact that it didn't happen-for whatever reason- is not harm.

Someone born female could have ridden in the car with him and changed her mind about sex. He's disappointed, but that is not harm. Not getting laid when you expect to is NOT an excuse for anger, in let alone violence. What a sense of entitlement.

He was not robbed of the chance to decide. He was not excluded from the conversation. He got the information and chose not to proceed. That IS the conversation. 

^^that whole post is giving off crazy strong vibes of sexual entitlement. You went on a date and maybe paid for dinner and now you're OWED sex and if it doesn't happen or doesn't happen as expected you have been wronged and are justified to be angry. Come on. 

 

[herbie]

So say your not interested. No means no works for everyone.

If you're completely grossed out, that's a problem with you, not the tranny.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

is not harm.

You're right. Its deception. A lie. Kind of like a woman posing on a dating website as an "athletic" woman. Thin face. Gorgeous. 

You meet, the rest of her looks like honey boo boo's mom.

The deception, is you brought friends with, as she "is gorgeous". 

So more of a shot to your pride you will never live down if anyone finds out.

If she guilt trips you, even worse.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Someone born female could have ridden in the car with him and changed her mind about sex. He's disappointed, but that is not harm.

But see, she would be a biological woman. No coin toss on whether you had a third leg or not to worry about. Hence her panic in setting that record straight, once he flipped out.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Not getting laid when you expect

This isn't about getting laid. He is hetero. Talk all the socially acceptable terms you like. He felt that the person in front of him, was a man. Albeit an insanely good looking one. He wasn't trying to find out what had been removed or not. Because he again, is heterosexual.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

He got the information and chose not to proceed.

So, she should never disclose? 

What if she didn't get bottom surgery, and he gets a Jack in the box expecting something else. Isn't  it fair game that he would feel something around the lines of: "what the eff?"

Or is this a package deal. You took it home, deal with it?

No take backsies.

The cloth seat Toyota cost more, but is more reliable than the Lexus. Think of the positives. Right?

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

you're OWED sex

No, if we are both dating and building something, honesty is expected. Not owed.

If you date with zero expectations that's on you. I have standards.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

justified to be angry

No. Jusfified to be disappointed. Very justified. 

I don't care if I hurt her feelings. We get hot and heavy and off come the underwear and then..*boiiiing*. 

She's taking a cab ride home then and there. On her coin.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Hodad said:

But I don't necessarily agree about a lie by omission--at least not to a degree that it's outside social norms for getting to know someone.

But there is a difference. A person has no reason in most cases to believe they know the answers to many of those things you mention. But - if they meet someone who presents as a 'woman' or a 'man' when they see them, there is a pretty reasonable expectation that the person BELIEVES he or she KNOWS the other person's bio sex.

So - if you allow them to CONTINUE believing something that you know is untrue and highly relevant to why they asked you on a date, then it's not just a lie by omission, it's just a regular lie, and fraud as well. You are allowing them to proceed knowing they have a false belief that is highly relevant to their decisions because it suits your agenda.

It would be extremely dishonest. If a friend came to me and said he was out on a date with a girl and on the second date she reviled that i would say "Dump her right now - you can never trust another thing she says".

If you know someone is asking you out on a date for romantic reasons, and it's likely they have resaon to believe your bio sex is different than what it is, then you need to be up front with that right away.  Otherwise, you're just dishonest.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It would be extremely dishonest.

To me, its like dating someone who had a past as a hitman. 

They served 12 years for what they were caught for, but mean you no harm and never hurt you.

To me, this isn't an elephant in a room type of omission.

Its an aircraft carrier in a swimming pool. 

Or a violent sex offender that is reformed. Withholding this to me, is a level of deceit that to me would end a relationship.

[OftenWrong]

I see a lot more trans men around these days. It's like become in style or something. I go to the corner store and there's a young man with full makeup behind the counter. An he whar in a dress...

Like the song goes, "I smiled because I did not understand" ... and made my purchase, and moved on.

Next up the Irish pub, and here comes a bloke in a long skirt and long blonde hair. He's the waiter. Looking at his face, you'd expect him to be at a soccer match, shouting. Also saw another very tall man in a wig and sexy pants. What is it with these soccer hooligan types who have the urge to dress like a woman? Apparently Galaxia is a thing.

Edited April 7, 2023 by OftenWrong

[OftenWrong]

Anyway I'm outta here -

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by OftenWrong

[Perspektiv]

12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I see a lot more trans men around these days.

Its a trend. Harder to fight, when it's drilled into your head from kindergarten. 

Some see it as trendy.

When I was in high school, trendy, was being a skater, preppy, jock. Or worst case, being goth, and dressing all black...

Now trendy, is lobbing off body parts, or questioning what gender you are. 

Usually you could grow out of your teenage years. 

Harder to do, if you cut off your breasts. 

[CdnFox]

13 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

To me, its like dating someone who had a past as a hitman. 

They served 12 years for what they were caught for, but mean you no harm and never hurt you.

To me, this isn't an elephant in a room type of omission.

Its an aircraft carrier in a swimming pool. 

Or a violent sex offender that is reformed. Withholding this to me, is a level of deceit that to me would end a relationship.

Well like i say- the big difference is that there's  no reasonable expectation that they would know if you were a hitman or not.  They don't have any reason to believe you are or are not a felon, or if you've served time in jail or any of that. So that's something you can discuss later - it's fair to say you can't impart all knowledge about yourself at once.

BUT - THERE IS  a reason to believe they think you're a biological girl/boy.  they PROBABLY think that. SO - allowing them to CONTINUE to believe that instead of correcting that is dishonest.

It would be like meeting at a dating website called "totally-NOT - former-hitman.Com' and then mentioning date three - ooh by the way...

You can't give people the impression you're a girl/boy and allow them to hold that belief and then do a bait and switch later. It's dishonest in the extreme.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's dishonest in the extreme.

I agree with most of your post, but finding out my significant other was a hitman likely would be as much a deal breaker as them telling me they are trans. 

I mean, I stopped dating a woman for telling me she was an alcoholic who hadn't drunk in months. 

I have dated women with serious substance abuse problems, and was too old and had pushed that lifestyle too far behind me to even remotely rekindle it. 

I date a woman, expecting a biological woman, just like I expect her to be standing on her two feet. 

If she acted like she had a job, and then told me she was unemployed and homeless I am sorry, am not a crutch. I see this closely to be being heterosexual. I make no apologies about it. I also like to be attracted to the women I date.

I get shallow with mine, in that if by date 30, she popped out her full dentures, am sorry, but that's a lot. 

We are normalizing lying by omission which to me is just as serous as lying. 

I will support you in your times of need in the relationship, but to pick you up and dust you off from the onset like this is a fairytale movie? Yeah, OK. 

Of course, most things can be told later, but certain things should be known up front. 

So many hope you trap you, and grow on you like mildew. To me, that is the most toxic means of starting a relationship, as it's started on false pretense.