Transgender Issues

[reason10]

Boys and girls, normal people never had a problem with trannies until they started pushing their disease in our faces and in our CHILDREN's faces. We were happy to let them be freaks in the privacy of their own homes. When they DEMANDED our attention, that's when we decided HELL NO;.

History has always been full of freaks.  Homos have been around quite a long time, as have lesbos. Normal people pretty much ignored them. We went about our lives and they went about theirs. For a long time, neither was in the others' faces.

Pedophelia used to be considered both a crime and an abomination. Exposing CHILDREN to hard, violent pornography was considered a crime and an abomination. That was proper. Children need a time of innocence in their lives. But when public schools began putting violent child rape pornography in elementary school libraries and subjecting CHILDREN to drag queen shows, we realized there was a problem.

Normal people recognize that freaks exist. Until they start showing their disease in our faces, we're ready to just ignore them. Now we can't. They won't let us.

 

[herbie]

Attempts to speak for normal people, goes out of way to prove he's anything but....

at least reason is consistent.

[Perspektiv]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:15 AM, reason10 said:

They won't let us

To me thats fine. Its the lack of logic that is hard to listen to.

This is seen as crazy.

But ask them what makes the logic any different, and they can't provide you with it or call you transphobic.

Icing on cake, they gaslight in that this is totally different, but again, can't bring the logic to the table.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

To me thats fine. Its the lack of logic that is hard to listen to.

Logic itself isn't a cure all for social programs.  There are lots of irrational things about our system.

 

People are arguing badly, and defeat their arguments.

 

But saying that irrational people support an issue doesn't say anything for or against said issue.

[Perspektiv]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Logic itself isn't a cure all for social programs. 

Of course not, but definitely applies here. You can't gaslight someone into believing something illogical. 

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But saying that irrational people support an issue doesn't say anything for or against said issue.

Irrational people are passing something fictional as fact. Some even as law. The pushback is coming from this now being pushed to children. 

This stops being irrational, once you cross that line. 

You can't make people believe BS in a free society. Using force just means the pushback becomes stronger and the divisions become hardened. 

This isn't about human rights. Its about gaslighting people to believe someone feeling they are born in the wrong body, is perfectly normal. 

Needing surgical and medical corrections, is perfectly normal. 

Thats gaslighting. Those who shun Donald Trump yet employ the same "alternative facts" tactics should be ashamed of themselves. 

That not illogical. It's hypocritical. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Irrational people are passing something fictional as fact. Some even as law.

2. The pushback is coming from this now being pushed to children. 

1. You're confused.  You keep saying people want to say that trans women are biological females but you're the only one here saying that.

2. Also not happening.

Please stop making things up to be angry about.  It's a waste of forum.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You're confused.  You keep saying people want to say that trans women are biological females but you're the only one here saying that.

He is saying people demand they're equivalent. And people are demanding that. Further - "trans women are real women" is a very popular battlecry right now. So you appear to be wrong on the face of it.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Also not happening.

Sure - ask bud lite about that. 

Hell - the lefties on this  board spend half their time complaining about the blowback trans are facing - blaming republicans of course but it's wider than that.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Please stop making things up to be angry about.  It's a waste of forum.

LOL - begging someone to stop talking?  "tell me you know you lost without telling me"   It's the battle cry of everyone who knows they don't have a valid point.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You keep saying people want to say that trans women are biological females

Should trans women compete with biological women in competitive sports?

Nobody is pushing for this? Pushing for this sort of implies there is no difference, no?

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Also not happening.

Gender ideology isn't being taught to kids?

No schools are pushing woke gender ideology to kids? Meaning, where you're being taught there is an indefinite amount of genders, among others. This isn't being taught to kids? Trans ideology? Should I present to you where that it is, in case you're confused?

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Please stop making things up to be angry about.

I'm not angry about trans people. They don't affect me in the slightest. I used to be able to ignore them, and mind my business and they would mind theirs. They're an incredibly loud, and unhinged group of activists now, so are impossible to ignore, and their demands have become laughable for some.

 

 

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Sure - ask bud lite about that. 

Or any other influencers targeting kids. Some directly, even encouraging private messages and lessons on how to break up with your parents.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Should trans women compete with biological women in competitive sports?

 

1. A different question.  You do this a lot when challenged, you back away and ask something else.

I'm fine with individual sports deciding how to handle this.

The rest of your post is a lot of changing the tablecloth on the original repast.

[Perspektiv]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

A different question. 

Are trans women women?

[Michael Hardner]

40 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Are trans women women?

Are we starting a new topic?

 

It's a bit of a trick question.  I would defer to your response, that you treat trans women as women if that's what they want.

 

We're on the same page there.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Are we starting a new topic?

 

Just supporting the point I made.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would defer to your response, that you treat trans women as women if that's what they want.

No issue there, but they aren't physically women. Meaning, my wife being uncomfortable in a Goodlife showering, with a "woman" with a penis staring at her doesn't make her transphobic.

It's impossible for most to treat them the same, when they clearly are not the same.

I see what looks like a man in a dress, I approach with ma'am.

But if same said woman wanted to start drama with me and shoved me, then took a swing at me, you are then being dealt with like a man. I would show a biological woman restraint.

Sorry, just because the western world is in decay and want to entertain this, doesn't make it fact for the rest of the world.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. they aren't physically women.  

2. Sorry, just because the western world is in decay and want to entertain this, doesn't make it fact for the rest of the world.

1. Ok 

2. Right 

 

 

[Perspektiv]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok

If a trans woman clearly looking male started to hit me they would get knocked out. No remorse. You see a woman, I see a man in a dress.

I mind my business and don't start trouble with people, until they reach me with their drama. I got sharp attitude from a clearly male trans woman, while asking her and her friend: "are you guys in line".

She likely thought I was calling her a male, vs eluding to the quantity of them. She gave a long dirty look, and I walked past them, as their silence sort of spoke for them, praying they would say something.

My mother taught me to never put my hands on a woman.

Sorry, a dress and makeup don't make you a woman.

Its an insult to women to insinuate that this, or breast implants and a surgically created vagina seal the deal.

Or how Dylan Mulvaney doesn't understand why so many women hate her. 

You're making a mockery of women, and handing out tampons to add insult to injury. You're not a woman. You're a caricature for everything that they are not.

You have made millions and are the spoke person for a gender you have only been a member of for just over a year.

I agree with Dave Chapelle here, on the equivalent being BET declaring Eminem the black artist of the year.

Critics called him transphobic, because it was incredibly articulate and on point. This is dangerous, as its harder to refute someone making sense.

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Right

We are more worried about what gender we are, feminizing men and glorifying the hatred of what men used to stand for.

All the while China has banned this type of behavior as has Russia, and they are more focused to turn the tides of who runs the world.

[reason10]

On 4/23/2023 at 1:52 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. You're confused.  You keep saying people want to say that trans women are biological females but you're the only one here saying that.

2. Also not happening.

Please stop making things up to be angry about.  It's a waste of forum.

I've actually seen both Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk question some young Moe Ronz about what a woman is. They all agree that a woman is "whatever a person claims he/she is." A woman is someone who identifies as a woman.

It's like these !diots never took a high school anatomy class.

[Americana Antifa]

5 hours ago, reason10 said:

It's like these !diots never took a high school anatomy class.

You're telling on yourself. Sex is biology, gender is culture.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

You're telling on yourself. Sex is biology, gender is culture.

But wait a moment - i thought a 'transgender woman is a real woman'.  So that's biological. You guys are going to have to make up your minds here.

Also if gender is just culture why do trans women want to change their biology?

and why are we letting them participate in women's sports if their gender issues don't affect their biology?

Oh what a tangled web we weave ...

[Americana Antifa]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But wait a moment - i thought a 'transgender woman is a real woman'.  So that's biological. You guys are going to have to make up your minds here.

No, female is a biological sex category. Woman is a gender category.

I know you're being bad faith, but some other people might care about reality.

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Also if gender is just culture why do trans women want to change their biology?

Why do goths and punks get tattoos? Lot of cultures have connections to biology.

Gender is linked to biology in that it's defined by what tropes we assign to people based on sex. A woman is a person who identifies with tropes that society assigns to females at birth. But most of those tropes have nothing to do with biology. That's why they're different depending on the society.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

No, female is a biological sex category. Woman is a gender category.

So - it's not incorrect to refer to a transgender woman as a 'male'?

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

I know you're being bad faith, but some other people might care about reality.

ROFLMAO - well you never have. 

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

Why do goths and punks get tattoos? Lot of cultures have connections to biology.

Well htey don't do it to change their biology. And they don't do it because of gender either.

Soooo - still missing an explination here.

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

Gender is linked to biology in that it's defined by what tropes we assign to people based on sex. A woman is a person who identifies with tropes that society assigns to females at birth. But most of those tropes have nothing to do with biology. That's why they're different depending on the society.

So what you're saying there is that it's just fashion sense. If a girl likes pants shes 'transgender'.  Or if a boy wants to wear a dress he's transgender.  (scotland would like to talk to you).

Funny thing is gender is associated with biology.  Imma just gonna leave this here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29460079/

 

[Americana Antifa]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So - it's not incorrect to refer to a transgender woman as a 'male'?

The short answer is yes. But sex also isn't a perfect binary. In every day talk, we can say there are males and females, though biologists would probably consider most trans women to be more intersex if they've been on hormones for a while. There's also a lot of people who are naturally intersex, but we don't test everyone's chromosomes the moment we meet them.

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO - well you never have. 

Those sure are a lot of letters. You wouldn't be crying behind the laughing mask again, would you?

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well htey don't do it to change their biology. And they don't do it because of gender either.

They change their physical body as part of their culture.

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So what you're saying there is that it's just fashion sense. If a girl likes pants shes 'transgender'.  Or if a boy wants to wear a dress he's transgender.  (scotland would like to talk to you).

No, because that's not how cultural identities work. People generally self-identify. We don't say someone is goth if they're wearing black one day. But if someone identifies as goth, then we acknowledge them as goth. It's only bad faith transphobes that refuse to respect people's identities.

It is funny you bring up the Scottish. The fascists here in America are already talking about banning cross-dressing in public. What exactly is cross-dressing? Well, it depends on whatever society sees as gendered clothing. I do wonder what's going to happen when people bring up kilts.

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Funny thing is gender is associated with biology. 

No shit, I already said that.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The short answer is yes.

Sounds like you were wrong before then.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

But sex also isn't a perfect binary. In every day talk, we can say there are males and females, though biologists would probably consider most trans women to be more intersex if they've been on hormones for a while.

not credible ones.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

 

There's also a lot of people who are naturally intersex, but we don't test everyone's chromosomes the moment we meet them.

Well - 'a lot' is probably an exaggeration.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Those sure are a lot of letters.

oh sorry - i forgot how much big words scare you.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

They change their physical body as part of their culture.

Not really. They might paint their body, but that's no different than putting on makeup. That's not attempting to physically mutilate themselves. We don't call vaginal mutilation a 'cultural body change'.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

No, because that's not how cultural identities work. People generally self-identify. We don't say someone is goth if they're wearing black one day.

you literally claimed that's how it worked.  If people self identify and cultural identities aren't part of the greater society what makes them think that dresses are what women wear?

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

But if someone identifies as goth, then we acknowledge them as goth. It's only bad faith transphobes that refuse to respect people's identities.

what if they identify as a street lamp, when theyr'e clearly not a street lamp.  It would be more fair to say that in many cases only the HONEST people refuse to respect peoples faux identities.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

It is funny you bring up the Scottish. The fascists here in America are already talking about banning cross-dressing in public.

No they're not.  Is this like you're 'book ban', where the book wasn't banned in the slightest, it just wasn't in school libraries?

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

What exactly is cross-dressing? Well, it depends on whatever society sees as gendered clothing. I do wonder what's going to happen when people bring up kilts.

first off - never 'bring up' the kilt, you don't know whats under there.

3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

No shit, I already said that.

No you didn't.  You claimed it was not biological you claimed it was cultural saying it was only biological in the sense that culturally we assign certain things to different sexes.  Its' only in THIS post AFTER i said that where you made any reference to the biology at all

You're such a liar

[Americana Antifa]

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

Sounds like you were wrong before then.

Nope. I always said that sex and gender are two different things. One is entirely about biology, the other is mostly about culture.

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

not credible ones.

Ah yes, the Matt Walsh defense.

Matt Walsh claims that science says sex is a binary. When people point out that biologists actually say sex is bimodal, he just claims they're all full of shit.

Fascists can't admit the real reasons they're transphobic, so they have to dress it up as science. But they don't really care about science, which is why they're willing to ignore science the second it becomes inconvenient. 

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

Not really. They might paint their body, but that's no different than putting on makeup. That's not attempting to physically mutilate themselves. We don't call vaginal mutilation a 'cultural body change'.

Getting a tattoo is no different than putting on make-up? There are plenty of people who would disagree with you there. For a long time, tattoos actually were seen as mutilating the body. But as time moved on, people have become more tolerant. Same thing with trans modifications.

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

you literally claimed that's how it worked.

No, I said it goes by self-identity. If a person identifies as a woman, than they're a woman. Generally speaking, that woman will embrace tropes that society assigns to females at birth. But that's not what defines them as a woman, what defines them is the identity. Likewise, goths will generally dress in black, but that alone isn't what defines someone as goth.

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

what if they identify as a street lamp, when theyr'e clearly not a street lamp.  It would be more fair to say that in many cases only the HONEST people refuse to respect peoples faux identities.

The difference there is that a street lamp isn't identified by self-identification. 

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

No they're not.  Is this like you're 'book ban', where the book wasn't banned in the slightest, it just wasn't in school libraries?

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161452175/anti-drag-show-bill-tennessee-trans-rights-minor-care-anti-lgbtq-laws

Also, the government banning books from schools and public libraries is absolutely a book ban. But you're still unable to admit that you're a fascist.

On 4/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, CdnFox said:

No you didn't.  You claimed it was not biological you claimed it was cultural saying it was only biological in the sense that culturally we assign certain things to different sexes.  Its' only in THIS post AFTER i said that where you made any reference to the biology at all

All cultures involve biology to a degree. You're only nitpicking on this because you lost on every point.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Nope. I always said that sex and gender are two different things. One is entirely about biology, the other is mostly about culture.

But they're not - gender is biologically driven as well. And you just made that same claim a post ago or thereabouts. So - you're wrong again.

That's what happens when you flip flop to try to keep your story straight. Gender is in significant part biological.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Ah yes, the Matt Walsh defense.

Matt Walsh claims that science says sex is a binary. When people point out that biologists actually say sex is bimodal, he just claims they're all full of shit.

Sounds like you're back to word games to redefine things as necessary to fit your argument.  What you mean to say is 'sex is defined as whatever i need it to be right now".

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Fascists can't admit the real reasons they're transphobic, so they have to dress it up as science. But they don't really care about science, which is why they're willing to ignore science the second it becomes inconvenient. 

You certainly do. "I'ts biological, it's not biological, it's biological" - you ignore the science whenever it gets in the way. I don't know if other facists do as well but you do.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Getting a tattoo is no different than putting on make-up? There are plenty of people who would disagree with you there.

No there aren't. They would say it doesn't wash off as easily but then again there are people who have make up 'inked' onto them as well.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

For a long time, tattoos actually were seen as mutilating the body. But as time moved on, people have become more tolerant. Same thing with trans modifications.

Nope. Sorry. Tattoos were never considered to be self mutilation,. They were considered to be bad things and desicrating your body etc but not mutilation.  And why would it - it's just putting ink on your body.

Cutting body parts off is mutilation.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

No, I said it goes by self-identity.

No, you didn't say that.  More flip flopping when you get cornered i see.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

The difference there is that a street lamp isn't identified by self-identification.

But a person could.  That's the point. What if i claim i'm a street lamp.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161452175/anti-drag-show-bill-tennessee-trans-rights-minor-care-anti-lgbtq-laws

So i was right. They weren't banned at all.  You just lied about it. Typical.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

Also, the government banning books from schools and public libraries is absolutely a book ban

not even a tiny bit. Is porn 'banned' in america just because schools don't carry playboy? It's a retarded thing to say. "we don't feel this book is appropriate for this school library but you can buy it anywhere and other libraries can carry it and it's perfectly legal"  "oh - the book is banned'.

but you'll claim dr seuss which realily IS out of production is not banned. 

Hypcrite.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

All cultures involve biology to a degree. You're only nitpicking on this because you lost on every point.

I've won on every point. This is just icing and no - most cultures don't involve biology. Other than the people in them tend to be living creatures.

You've flip flopped so much that  you don't even HAVE a point any more.

So lets recap:

• Gender is in a significant part biological - and while culture plays a role it is NOT cultural.
• Sex doesn't change regardiless of gender - so a male is a male even if he thinks of himself as a woman.
• You do not become something jsut because you identify with it. If i were to identify as a street lamp, i wouldn't be one.
• Trans people are not banned.
• Culture and biology are not the same thing.

Glad we could sort this stuff out.

[Perspektiv]

12 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

One is entirely about biology, the other is mostly about culture.

This has been disproved. 

Behaviors, idiosyncrasies are biological. Hard wired into us.

A dress, facial hair and appearance, like shaving legs is cultural. Being a masculine woman or an effeminate man, is perfectly normal. 

Women will typically be predisposed to certain interests as will men, same as behavior.

12 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Generally speaking, that woman will embrace tropes that society assigns to females at birth.

You're not assigned anything at birth. Your sex is determined. It's done rather easily too by looking at the genitals. 

I was given girl toys, and had female siblings. I naturally gravitated towards male toys. There isn't a perfect box, but to say I could be a woman just because I am effeminate is ridiculous. It doesn't change a thing about my gender, just like skiing or skating doesn't make me any less black.