Transgender Issues

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Well said.

Like Newfoundlanders, modern English Canada is civilised.

Please don't quote me in such a way that your cuts, which are, of course, deliberate, change the meaning of what I wrote. If you're incapable of disagreeing in any articulate or intelligent fashion then simply don't reply.

[Americana Antifa]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Trans, yes, sure.

I would ask you for evidence that lots of trans people feel that way but, eh, we both know what the answer would be.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's actually a leftie tactic.  Also - pretending that leftie tactics are righty tactics is a lefty tactic 

Nope. Leftists actually go by data and trends, not fringe cases.

When I say that the Right is authoritarian, I don't point to random fascists and nazis on social media, since that says nothing about the Right as a population. Instead, I point to the fascist politicians and activists that have huge followings. The fact that Viktor Orbán is so popular on the Right is evidence of the Right being authoritarian.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Trans people do NOT want to stop being trans for the most part. What they want is to be the other gender and they can't. They don't want to stop wanting that. The psychological research is pretty clear.

No shit, that's part of gender dysphoria.

Also, being trans is not the same as having gender dysphoria. The later is the condition.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I think if we could solve gender disphoria by magically turning boys into girls - they would think it's great.
But a pill that solved their problem would be seen as 'destroying who they are'.

 

[CdnFox]

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

I would ask you for evidence that lots of trans people feel that way but, eh, we both know what the answer would be.

Yep - look it up yourself you lazy sealion.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Nope. Leftists actually go by data and trends, not fringe cases.

Leftist ONLY go by fringe cases and almost never by data.  Hell we can't even get YOU to look things up.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

When I say that the Right is authoritarian, I don't point to random fascists and nazis on social media, since that says nothing about the Right as a population. Instead, I point to the fascist politicians and activists that have huge followings.

No you don't. You just pick people who have followings at random and label them as fascist. Or if you think that's a really hard sell, you say THEY MIGHT not be - but their IDEAS/BEHAVIOR/EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THEM certainly is.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

 

The fact that Viktor Orbán is so popular on the Right is evidence of the Right being authoritarian.

Is not even remotely evidence of it in the slightest. And didn't you give a big lecture the other day how one leftist believing something doesn't mean they ALL do? My me my how you have trouble keeping your hypocrisy in check.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

No shit, that's part of gender dysphoria.

Yeah, it's disappointing I had to actually explain that to you.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Also, being trans is not the same as having gender dysphoria. The later is the condition.

Yeah, it is.

Don't make me post more science and facts at you - we both know your brain can only take a small amount before it explodes.

[Americana Antifa]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yep - look it up yourself you lazy sealion.

You can't prove God does NOT exist!

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No you don't. You just pick people who have followings at random and label them as fascist.

Is Viktor Orbán a fascist?

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

You can't prove God does NOT exist!

Source?

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Is Viktor Orbán a fascist?

Who cares. I'm a conservative. I've never heard of the guy. I hang in conservative circles too and never heard him mentioned. So the idea that Viktor proves ALL conservatives are fascist is immediately false and patently retarded. 

And based on your track record so far i'm going to go with probably not, statistically just assuming you're wrong gives me a 99.93 percent chance of being right.

[Americana Antifa]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Who cares. I'm a conservative. I've never heard of the guy. I hang in conservative circles too and never heard him mentioned. So the idea that Viktor proves ALL conservatives are fascist is immediately false and patently retarded. 

And based on your track record so far i'm going to go with probably not, statistically just assuming you're wrong gives me a 99.93 percent chance of being right.

Yup, I knew you weren't going to answer that question. ?

 

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Yup, I knew you weren't going to answer that question. ?

that literally was an answer

2 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

 

Oh noes!!! She's breaking out pictures And i love that Xi Jinping - leader of the communist party of china - is now a republican and a conservative   ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well it's nice to see you admit defeat like that  

And as i've previously proven to you it's the left that requires authoritarianism to survive. The right wing philosophies dont' need it at all. The left must enforce it's doctrines by law and gun, the right just basically wants the gov't to leave everyone alone as much as possible, and only gets 'legal'' when people push against that.

[Americana Antifa]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

that literally was an answer

Is Viktor Orbán a fascist? Yes or no?

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Oh noes!!! She's breaking out pictures And i love that Xi Jinping - leader of the communist party of china - is now a republican and a conservative   ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice try, but I didn't say all fascists are part of the GOP. I said that conservatives are authoritarian and that's why they support authoritarians.

You have to lie because you know the meme is true. The Right pretends to care about "small government" but then they simp for fascists.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Is Viktor Orbán a fascist? Yes or no?

I have no idea, i don't know the guy.

Sorry - that's a legit answer. But i do know that if i don't know him, and none of the conservatives i talk with (who are many) have never mentioned him, and i'm not seeing him on the message boards, he's clearly not a major factor in conservative thinking

I also know you lie like a dead pig so it's likely if you think he is that he isn't. But i'm basing that on your track record.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Nice try, but I didn't say all fascists are part of the GOP. I said that conservatives are authoritarian and that's why they support authoritarians.

And they don't. It's another lie that  you use to cover up the fact the left HAS to support authoritarians. All you do is pretend anyone the right is fond of is an authortarian, nazi, fascist or totalitarian. That way you don't have to think about it

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

You have to lie because you know the meme is true. The Right pretends to care about "small government" but then they simp for fascists.

No lie kiddo. The right is all about smaller gov't.  And they don't like fascist. Thats why most of the people here don't like you, other than for the comic relief

But if you look at recent history - whos been elected.  Stephen harper. DEFINITELY all about smaller gov't and power to the provinces and local gov't.  Trump - not an authortarian. Sorry. He was  a nationalist unashamedly but he didn't promote or pass authortarian laws. Pierre Polievre is now elected leader for the cpc - he's running heavy on small gov't.

Hmmm. Whole lotta non-authortarians. Interesting.

Edit - oh and by the way ....

The thing i really love about the picture is .. I know it means you're frustrated and emotionally damaged by having the truth rubbed in your face  

Edited May 3, 2023 by CdnFox

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But if you look at recent history - whos been elected.  Stephen harper. DEFINITELY all about smaller gov't and power to the provinces and local gov't.  Trump - not an authortarian. Sorry. He was  a nationalist unashamedly but he didn't promote or pass authortarian laws. Pierre Polievre is now elected leader for the cpc - he's running heavy on small gov't.

I think he's misconstruing how Trump sounded (probably the worst public relations President the US has ever had), vs how he actually governed. If anything, Justin Trudeau has governed in a far more authoritarian fashion than Trump did.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Only difference I can see, is Trudeau was far more nimble in front of cameras and at getting good press, better yet, drowning out bad press.

4 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Is Viktor Orbán a fascist?

Pointing to an authoritarian conservative, doesn't make conservative values inherently authoritarian. I'm assuming this particular person is, as I also never heard of them.

I think the sad part, is you're so blind to how biased you come across. I could easily state positives from liberal policies as I can conservatives and vice versa on bad ones. You only see the good in one, and bad in the other. Those very views is why Trump was such a bad president. Its divisive.

Prior generations of politicians often were able to professionally work with their opposition, even in disagreement. Why is that?

 

 

[Perspektiv]

10 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

plus society will have reached a point where gender no longer exists

As long as common sense is prevalent, that's impossible. Losing gender, is allowing those who are devoid of common sense, to take over.

Being confused about one's gender, is precisely what activists are pushing to children. Through this confusion, they create an environment, where people are afraid to speak up, because those who do, are brutally bullied and canceled.

[Americana Antifa]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I have no idea, i don't know the guy.

He's the dictator of Hungary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Orbán

So now that you know him, is he a fascist?

 

Quote

Trump - not an authortarian.

Of course he isn't. ?

[Americana Antifa]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

As long as common sense is prevalent, that's impossible. Losing gender, is allowing those who are devoid of common sense, to take over.

Keep in mind we're talking about gender, not sex. And gender itself is devoid of common sense.

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Being confused about one's gender, is precisely what activists are pushing to children.

Any evidence of that?

Quote

Through this confusion, they create an environment, where people are afraid to speak up, because those who do, are brutally bullied and canceled.

Right-wing media spends like 90% of their time promoting transphobia. The idea that people are afraid to speak up against trans rights is like saying people in Nazi Germany were afraid to criticize Jews.

And cancel culture isn't real.

[Americana Antifa]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Pointing to an authoritarian conservative, doesn't make conservative values inherently authoritarian. I'm assuming this particular person is, as I also never heard of them.

Sure, if he was just one random person. But because he's a fascist dictator, he's extremely popular on the Right. CPAC invited him to speak. Tucker Carlson, who was the most popular pundit in America, did a show from Hungary so he could promote Orbán's politics.

And that's the thing about the Right. They claim to be for "small government," but then throw their support behind authoritarians over and over. CdnFox knows this, which is why he refused to answer the question about Orbán being fascist. He doesn't want to admit that a dictator is one of the darlings of the Right even in America.

And by the way, Giorgia Meloni is another fascist who also spoke at CPAC. Her win in Italy was celebrated by Republicans. Meanwhile, Trump can't stop talking about how America should have "quick trials" like in China, as he remains the most popular conservative in America. Oh, and don't forget that he tried to overthrow democracy like three years ago.

Seriously, I can go on and on and on with how obviously authoritarian the Right is. It's undeniable at this point. 

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I think the sad part, is you're so blind to how biased you come across. I could easily state positives from liberal policies as I can conservatives and vice versa on bad ones. You only see the good in one, and bad in the other. Those very views is why Trump was such a bad president. Its divisive.

Yes, I think reactionary authoritarianism is bad. I see nothing positive there.

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Prior generations of politicians often were able to professionally work with their opposition, even in disagreement. Why is that?

Probably because the conservatives weren't as detached from reality back then. Conservative politics were always bad, but conservatives used to still live in reality. I can list plenty of bad things about Mitt Romney and John McCain, but they didn't lie so much that they were living in an alternate universe. Because Trump is a pathological liar, he forced the entire GOP to abandon the real world.

Although, I do think the GOP was starting to become radicalized even before Trump. A lot of Republicans blocked Obama on anything he wanted to do.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

 (probably the worst public relations President the US has ever had),

Oh hands down no question by leaps and bounds.  I mean it's not even close. If he had the communications skills of a 'normal' president honestly his time in office would be looked at very favorably. If you JUST look at what he actually DID it's a pretty positive story for the most part, if you look at what he SAID and the messes that caused.. well... 

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

vs how he actually governed. If anything, Justin Trudeau has governed in a far more authoritarian fashion than Trump did.

Absolutely. Again its no contest.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Two wrongs don't make a right. Only difference I can see, is Trudeau was far more nimble in front of cameras and at getting good press, better yet, drowning out bad press.

It's the hair.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Pointing to an authoritarian conservative, doesn't make conservative values inherently authoritarian. I'm assuming this particular person is, as I also never heard of them.

Nobody has - yet somehow he's the spokesperson for all conservatives.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I think the sad part, is you're so blind to how biased you come across. I could easily state positives from liberal policies as I can conservatives and vice versa on bad ones. You only see the good in one, and bad in the other. Those very views is why Trump was such a bad president. Its divisive.

Nobody here ever asks about what positives a left wing gov't has done.  They make rediculous claims about what conservitives did or will do, or attempt to defend the indefensible that the left has done. 

In that context anyone's going to seem bias. Sorry.  If you want to talk about positive things that the left has done we can have that conversation, but they probably better be actual positive things or i'll pick it apart pretty quick, and likewise if you want to talk about negative elements of conservative policy we can as well but if it's something stupid like"you all want to outlaw abortion", then you're going to get pilloried pretty fast :).  

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Prior generations of politicians often were able to professionally work with their opposition, even in disagreement. Why is that?

In the past politicians who were statesmen were rewarded by the voters for such behavior.  But - more and more over time politicians learned that if they promote division and tribalism then then can weaponize that to their advantage.  IN the states that was very prevelant and it bled into Canada - but in Canada we also had the east-west divide where the east basically ignored the people in the west and passed policies that hurt them badly in favor of votes in voter-rich eastern provinces.  Which created our own form of tribalism over time.

Now such things as working together are actually frowned on.  Harper was famous for 'borrowing' talent from across the floor - he took a liberal as his defense guy because that liberal was extremely knowledgeable in the crisis areas that were flairing up and we needed the best - but the liberals threw the guy out for working with the cpc and the newspapers trashed the guy.

Recently PP stood up during the crisis in the east and said "time to put aside our differences to help people, we stand ready to vote with you to get them help, what do you need from us".  Do you remember that showing up in all the papers and being discussed? nope.  Most don't remember it happening.  But he launches an attack... it's in the papers.  So where's he going to spend his time.

It's not rocket science.

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't push anything to kids. Let them be kids.

Whatever you tell them or don't tell them is ideology.  You can't say that views opposed to yours are 'ideology' without admitting your views are also ideology.

The question is - what does the community want to teach as a common value.  Values are important to people, and so they get upset when the values taught don't reflect theirs.  The contradiction is that you will not agree 100% in what values are taught.  There can never be a perfect match.

If you are a pacifist you will not get the schools to not commemorate Remembrance Day.  If you are a devout Christian you can't cancel Hallowe'en in most jurisdictions.  The parents will push back.

So - my question to you is: what values are you willing to let go of in the sphere of public education ?

 

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The parents will push back.

Many are pushing back against trans ideology. 

Even the most sensible are stating that trans rights matter, but so do women's rights and parental rights.

IE some schools enforcing allowing kids to transition or begin their journey and withholding this from the parents. 

How is this not grooming?

Social media activists providing private messaging to their young audiences so they can "divorce their parents".

Speaking up against this, would result in withering backlash, even though most agree with the speaking up. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

your views are also ideology.

Of course they are. I strongly believe in nuclear families, and doing vs being keyboard activists, among many other things. 

The death of the nuclear family, was a pillar in the black community, that saw it start to fall apart. 

This ideology wishes to remove religion, and seemingly women and masculine men from the bargaining table so they can exist.

I also strongly believe in compromise. I am divorced once. I learned then, when you are the only one sacrificing, to the extent of giving up who you are, its too high a price to pay. 

This is a group that is pushing for others to sacrifice. Many especially activists within those groups, will never be okay with this nor should they.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Even the most sensible are stating that trans rights matter, but so do women's rights and parental rights.

Especially the most sensible. THere has to be balance.  Sensible people recognize that but the trans activists refuse demanding that everything be 100 percent as they want it.

Then they're shocked with the backlash.

[Perspektiv]

Its no longer about safety. It's full control. Most socially would be petrified to even describe what a woman truly is. 

This isn't progress to me. It's a sign as to how effective the bully tactics from this group are effective. 

Withering canceling or attempt at high profile person making a "transphobic" remark. They must be closer to the left for it to work. 

They are sacrificed, forced to apologize and request mercy.

I have been to communist countries which use similar tactics to control.

[Perspektiv]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Then they're shocked with the backlash

This is what baffles me. 

Its like a woman stating she hates men on Tik Tok. Posts videos of her roasting them, then another on how no men want to date strong women. 

No. No men want to date c***s.

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Many are pushing back against trans ideology.  Even the most sensible are stating that trans rights matter, but so do women's rights and parental rights.

2. IE some schools enforcing allowing kids to transition or begin their journey and withholding this from the parents.  How is this not grooming?

3. Social media activists providing private messaging to their young audiences so they can "divorce their parents". Speaking up against this, would result in withering backlash, even though most agree with the speaking up. 

4. The death of the nuclear family, was a pillar in the black community, that saw it start to fall apart. 

5. Many especially activists .... 

1.  For sure.  
2. "Grooming" implies there's some other motivation other than the child.  I find the term odious because I have never seen a single example, let alone using the term to describe people who promote a policy however wrong you may feel it is.
3. "Withering backlash" despite many supporting it ?  You are a honest poster but you shift your points back and forth from sentence to sentence, post to post.  Be specific and stand by your comments.  
4. We already looked at this, poor communities seemed to be equally affected here.
5. I'm going to stop accepting "activists" as stakeholders, both from pro- and con- sides.  It's too nebulous a group.  Anybody saying something is tagged as 'activist' and so the group is basically a mob of people saying extreme things.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

"Grooming" implies there's some other motivation other than the child.

Dismissing womanhood and what it is to be a man. These somehow are question marks, now.

Easier to confuse a child than any rational human who knows the difference between a woman and a man, than an impressionable child.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

despite many supporting it ?

Jeffrey Marsh or voices like his, received heavy backlash for suggesting to children to ditch their parents and privately message him, offering to make them his family. Just because you're a man in makeup, doesn't make it any less creepy.

Many pointed this out, but were dismissed as transphobic.

Those who pushed back, were either canceled, doxxed or received death threats.

I say the many supporting it, going by the millions of likes some of these would receive.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Dismissing womanhood and what it is to be a man.  

2. Those who pushed back, were either canceled, doxxed or received death threats.

1. How is that grooming?

2. Death threats don't mean anything to the arguments at hand.

[Perspektiv]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

How is that grooming?

They are grooming perfectly healthy kids to question their gender. 

Its considered transphobic to consider gender as a binary. 

Many activists push the notion that people will die, should they not follow the ideology to a T.

If allowed, words like woman would lose its meaning. Man would become toxic.

You are encouraged to experiment with your gender. This is a trend.

What do you think teens will do, if they think something is cool?

Some are mutilating their bodies, which is noble if curing an illness. Disturbing if the child had been brainwashed to think something was wrong with them.

One of Pfizer's executives famously mentioned success in their industry being known, when you could sell your products to a perfectly healthy person.

Just like the scale of mental health illness skyrocketed in the 70's and 80's. There's a pill for anything.

Think you may be a girl? You're a boy? No problem. There's medication for that.

Pushing this to kids on a mainstream level, or making gender so confusing they are pushed to questioning who they are, is disturbing in my opinion.

 

[Perspektiv]

Also people keep pushing this notion that suicide is due to lack of parental support, yet some of the strongest influencers push the "divorcing of the parents" to these kids. 

What's pushing suicide then? Society? 

So erase gender and what is associated with it to make these people comfortable will fix it, right?

The world is not a safe space for the trans community. 

The elephant in the room is that trans people aren't born yesterday. 

They will be aware that they are not the gender that they  claim they are. Peoole can be silenced, but stares cannot.

Travel overseas, and those states turn to whispers. Laughter, or even being challenged when entering the "wrong" washroom.

Its a mental illness. You're trying to gaslight the world into thinking something is wrong with them, which is the low IQ way to garner traction for support.

Look at the ridicule when Putin tried to drum up support for the war he started. Laughter. Ridicule.

Outside our borders, people look at this ideology the same.