Yakuda Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 17 hours ago, blackbird said: So nobody knows in Catholicism whether they are going to heaven or not? How can you know if you have salvation if you must still work for it? I'm not saying you're stupid but this comment of yours above is stupid. Jesus says believe and be baptized. Catholics believe and are baptized. But again Scripture is clear, not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only the one whom does the will of my heavenly Father. Whats the will of the father? Matt 25:31-46 tells us. You REALLY need to stop listening to people who feed you nothing but lies. It's not good for you soul believe me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Yakuda said: I'm not saying you're stupid but this comment of yours above is stupid. Jesus says believe and be baptized. Catholics believe and are baptized. But again Scripture is clear, not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only the one whom does the will of my heavenly Father. Whats the will of the father? Matt 25:31-46 tells us. You REALLY need to stop listening to people who feed you nothing but lies. It's not good for you soul believe me. Why do you ignore all the verses that say salvation is by faith alone. You cannot earn it. The Apostle Paul says anyone who adds works to earn salvation is under a curse. You better read your Bible. Are you adding works to earn salvation? That means you may be under a curse according to that verse. That is a very dangerous position to be in. "10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. " Galatians 3:10, 11 You realize that "justified by the law" means doing good works. Clearly Paul is condemning those that say one can be justified by doing good works. Justification is by faith alone. That's is exactly what Paul is saying here and in Romans and other Scriptures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Yakuda said: only the one whom does the will of my heavenly Father. Whats the will of the father? What is the will of the heavenly Father? " 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30, 31 Then, once a person is saved, then they may do good works for Him, but they are not doing it to become a child of God. They already are a child of God. They are made a child of God by God's grace through faith. The Old Testament also condemns the thinking one can be justified by works. You need to find out what justification means. "26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. " Deuteronomy 27:26 This means if you think you can be justified by good works or keeping the law, you are under a curse simply because nobody can keep the law totally. Nobody can be justified by good works or keeping the law because we are all sinners and have a sin nature. That is why we must be born again and be justified by faith alone. Justified in the sight of God is only by faith in Jesus Christ and his once for all sacrifice on the cross. See Hebrews and Romans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 46 minutes ago, blackbird said: What is the will of the heavenly Father? " 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30, 31 Then, once a person is saved, then they may do good works for Him, but they are not doing it to become a child of God. They already are a child of God. They are made a child of God by God's grace through faith. The Old Testament also condemns the thinking one can be justified by works. You need to find out what justification means. "26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. " Deuteronomy 27:26 This means if you think you can be justified by good works or keeping the law, you are under a curse simply because nobody can keep the law totally. Nobody can be justified by good works or keeping the law because we are all sinners and have a sin nature. That is why we must be born again and be justified by faith alone. Justified in the sight of God is only by faith in Jesus Christ and his once for all sacrifice on the cross. See Hebrews and Romans. You like some massages and ignore others. I've always been amazed at how Protestants are singularly focused only on the stuff they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) On 1/19/2024 at 9:52 AM, Yakuda said: You like some massages and ignore others. I've always been amazed at how Protestants are singularly focused only on the stuff they like. No, I try to understand any scripture in the light of other scriptures. The Bible says compare scripture with scripture. When you do that, there should no contradiction. If you have trouble understanding a verse, there are resources that help find the answer. If there is a contradiction, then one is not interpreting it correctly. There are a huge number of verses that say salvation is by grace through faith. Therefore if one verse seems to contradict such a huge number of verses, you are likely not interpreting that one verse correctly. Grace is God's unmerited favour. Faith is believing God. So grace is the free unmerited gift that God gives those who believe in his Son Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross. Faith is the conduit through which we receive the grace from God. Adding works to faith as a part of salvation is a denial of God's free gift of grace. Galatians and Ephesians reject adding works. It says to allow works would enable a sinner to boast that he earned his salvation. God wants no part of that. "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. " Ephesians 2:8 If you want to be saved, you must accept God's way of salvation, not man's. Edited January 21 by blackbird 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 18 hours ago, blackbird said: No, I try to understand any scripture in the light of other scriptures. The Bible says compare scripture with scripture. When you do that, there should no contradiction. If you have trouble understanding a verse, there are resources that help find the answer. If there is a contradiction, then one is not interpreting it correctly. There are a huge number of verses that say salvation is by grace through faith. Therefore if one verse seems to contradict such a huge number of verses, you are likely not interpreting that one verse correctly. Grace is God's unmerited favour. Faith is believing God. So grace is the free unmerited gift that God gives those who believe in his Son Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross. Faith is the conduit through which we receive the grace from God. Adding works to faith as a part of salvation is a denial of God's free gift of grace. Galatians and Ephesians reject adding works. It says to allow works would enable a sinner to boast that he earned his salvation. God wants no part of that. "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. " Ephesians 2:8 If you want to be saved, you must accept God's way of salvation, not man's. Works dont save but faith without works is dead faith. You have been so brainwashed its disturbing but you choose it. AGAIN Protestants think it's an either or prospect but Scripture, which you ignore, says otherwise. You can keep posting volumes of inaccurate silliness it doesn't make you right but you don't know what else to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 On 1/17/2024 at 2:50 PM, Yakuda said: They didn't make the statement you did. So you thinking asking them is "helping"? And I am telling you, if you want to know how to help trans youth, the best way is to ask trans youth how they need help. Why are you asking me? On 1/21/2024 at 10:24 AM, blackbird said: If you want to be saved, you must accept God's way of salvation, not man's. Unless you’re wealthy. Then the doors to heaven are locked. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 On 1/21/2024 at 1:24 PM, blackbird said: "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. " Ephesians 2:8 If you want to be saved, you must accept God's way of salvation, not man's. no tickets to Heaven sold no truck nor trade with the Harlot of Babylon no surrender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 9 hours ago, Yakuda said: Works dont save but faith without works is dead faith. You have been so brainwashed its disturbing but you choose it. AGAIN Protestants think it's an either or prospect but Scripture, which you ignore, says otherwise. You can keep posting volumes of inaccurate silliness it doesn't make you right but you don't know what else to do. I agree with your first sentence with the proviso. A person must be saved first and that is strictly by grace through faith. Works follow and are evidence one is saved. I am still not sure if you understood what I said. You claim I post volumes of silliness, but what I posted was backed up by the Holy Scripture. How can that be silliness? Did you look at Galatians. Paul the Apostle makes it very clear salvation is strictly by grace through faith. I already posted the verses. We know that works follow but if you claim works are part of the equation, you are denying what Paul said. Do you even understand what justification means? Paul makes it clear one cannot become righteous before God (be justified) by good works. "16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. " Galatians 2:16-21 Catholicism teaches something entirely different that what Paul taught in Galatians and Romans. quote What exactly does the Roman Catholic Church teach is the way of salvation? A popular post-Vatican II catechism provides the following summary of the Church’s teaching. Question What is necessary to be saved? Answer You have to be brought into spiritual contact with that saving death of Jesus by faith and Baptism and loyal membership in His Church, by love of God and neighbor proved by obedience to His commandments, by the other Sacraments especially Holy Communion, by prayer and good works and by final perseverance, that is, preserving God’s friendship and grace until death.* unquote a Catholic must accomplish a list of ten requirements: believing being baptized being a loyal member of the Church loving God loving his neighbor keeping the Ten Commandments receiving the sacraments, especially Holy Communion praying doing good works dying in a state of grace Biblical salvation teaches something entirely different. Are you prepared to acknowledge that? The Catholic Way of Salvation (reachingcatholics.org) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, blackbird said: I agree with your first sentence with the proviso. A person must be saved first and that is strictly by grace through faith. Works follow and are evidence one is saved. I am still not sure if you understood what I said. You claim I post volumes of silliness, but what I posted was backed up by the Holy Scripture. How can that be silliness? Did you look at Galatians. Paul the Apostle makes it very clear salvation is strictly by grace through faith. I already posted the verses. We know that works follow but if you claim works are part of the equation, you are denying what Paul said. Do you even understand what justification means? Paul makes it clear one cannot become righteous before God (be justified) by good works. "16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. " Galatians 2:16-21 Catholicism teaches something entirely different that what Paul taught in Galatians and Romans. quote What exactly does the Roman Catholic Church teach is the way of salvation? A popular post-Vatican II catechism provides the following summary of the Church’s teaching. Question What is necessary to be saved? Answer You have to be brought into spiritual contact with that saving death of Jesus by faith and Baptism and loyal membership in His Church, by love of God and neighbor proved by obedience to His commandments, by the other Sacraments especially Holy Communion, by prayer and good works and by final perseverance, that is, preserving God’s friendship and grace until death.* unquote a Catholic must accomplish a list of ten requirements: believing being baptized being a loyal member of the Church loving God loving his neighbor keeping the Ten Commandments receiving the sacraments, especially Holy Communion praying doing good works dying in a state of grace Biblical salvation teaches something entirely different. Are you prepared to acknowledge that? The Catholic Way of Salvation (reachingcatholics.org) No one believes works alone saves. Conversely faith alone does not save. Youre finally catching on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 4 hours ago, TreeBeard said: And I am telling you, if you want to know how to help trans youth, the best way is to ask trans youth how they need help. Why are you asking me? Unless you’re wealthy. Then the doors to heaven are locked. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And I told you asking them is like asking anorexic how to help them. I guess we don't need doctors right? Just ask sick people how they need help. Lop of my appendages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, Yakuda said: No one believes works alone saves. Conversely faith alone does not save. Youre finally catching on No, I disagree with that. You are rejecting what the Bible says in numerous places if you are saying grace through faith alone does not save. You are contradicting Romans ch3, 4, and 5, Galatians, and Ephesians 2:8,9. Salvation by grace through faith alone is exactly what Paul is preaching in Galatians, Romans, and Ephesians. He says if you add anything to that, you are under an anathema or curse. So from what you say, everyone must work their way to heaven. Absolutely contrary to what the Bible teaches. Edited January 23 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, Yakuda said: No one believes works alone saves That is exactly what genuine Christians believe because it is what the Bible teaches. You still don't seem to understand the central doctrine of justification by faith. You cannot claim justification by works. There is no such thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 5 hours ago, Yakuda said: No one believes works alone saves. Conversely faith alone does not save. Youre finally catching on You appear to be rejecting Galatians, parts of Romans, and part of Ephesians and other part of the Bible which clearly teach salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works. Are you going to continue to cling to the false teachings of men or accept the teaching of God's written word? You are treading on dangerous ground. Here are verses warning about rejecting God's word, which is the Holy Bible. quote 1 Thessalonians 4:8 Verse Concepts So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you. 1 Samuel 15:23 Verse Concepts “For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, He has also rejected you from being king.” Psalm 106:24 Verse Concepts Then they despised the pleasant land; They did not believe in His word, Psalm 50:17 Verse Concepts “For you hate discipline, And you cast My words behind you. Isaiah 5:24 Verse Concepts Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble And dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust; For they have rejected the law of the Lord of hosts And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 30:12 Verse Concepts Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, “Since you have rejected this word And have put your trust in oppression and guile, and have relied on them, Jeremiah 6:10 Verse Concepts To whom shall I speak and give warning That they may hear? Behold, their ears are closed And they cannot listen. Behold, the word of the Lord has become a reproach to them; They have no delight in it. Jeremiah 8:9 Verse Concepts “The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord, And what kind of wisdom do they have? Jeremiah 20:8 Verse Concepts For each time I speak, I cry aloud; I proclaim violence and destruction, Because for me the word of the Lord has resulted In reproach and derision all day long. Jeremiah 36:23 Verse Concepts When Jehudi had read three or four columns, the king cut it with a scribe’s knife and threw it into the fire that was in the brazier, until all the scroll was consumed in the fire that was in the brazier. Zechariah 7:12 Verse Concepts They made their hearts like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets; therefore great wrath came from the Lord of hosts. Jeremiah 8:8-10 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the Lord is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. “The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord, And what kind of wisdom do they have? “Therefore I will give their wives to others, Their fields to new owners; Because from the least even to the greatest Everyone is greedy for gain; From the prophet even to the priest Everyone practices deceit. Mark 7:13 Verse Concepts thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Rejecting-God~s-Word 13 Bible verses about Rejecting God's Word (knowing-jesus.com) What it boils down to is this. You either cling to the false teachings of Rome or reject them and accept that they are wrong and the God's written revelation, the Bible, is correct on this important fundamental doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, blackbird said: You appear to be rejecting Galatians, parts of Romans, and part of Ephesians and other part of the Bible which clearly teach salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works. Are you going to continue to cling to the false teachings of men or accept the teaching of God's written word? You are treading on dangerous ground. Here are verses warning about rejecting God's word, which is the Holy Bible. quote 1 Thessalonians 4:8 Verse Concepts So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you. 1 Samuel 15:23 Verse Concepts “For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, He has also rejected you from being king.” Psalm 106:24 Verse Concepts Then they despised the pleasant land; They did not believe in His word, Psalm 50:17 Verse Concepts “For you hate discipline, And you cast My words behind you. Isaiah 5:24 Verse Concepts Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble And dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust; For they have rejected the law of the Lord of hosts And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 30:12 Verse Concepts Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, “Since you have rejected this word And have put your trust in oppression and guile, and have relied on them, Jeremiah 6:10 Verse Concepts To whom shall I speak and give warning That they may hear? Behold, their ears are closed And they cannot listen. Behold, the word of the Lord has become a reproach to them; They have no delight in it. Jeremiah 8:9 Verse Concepts “The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord, And what kind of wisdom do they have? Jeremiah 20:8 Verse Concepts For each time I speak, I cry aloud; I proclaim violence and destruction, Because for me the word of the Lord has resulted In reproach and derision all day long. Jeremiah 36:23 Verse Concepts When Jehudi had read three or four columns, the king cut it with a scribe’s knife and threw it into the fire that was in the brazier, until all the scroll was consumed in the fire that was in the brazier. Zechariah 7:12 Verse Concepts They made their hearts like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets; therefore great wrath came from the Lord of hosts. Jeremiah 8:8-10 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the Lord is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. “The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord, And what kind of wisdom do they have? “Therefore I will give their wives to others, Their fields to new owners; Because from the least even to the greatest Everyone is greedy for gain; From the prophet even to the priest Everyone practices deceit. Mark 7:13 Verse Concepts thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Rejecting-God~s-Word 13 Bible verses about Rejecting God's Word (knowing-jesus.com) What it boils down to is this. You either cling to the false teachings of Rome or reject them and accept that they are wrong and the God's written revelation, the Bible, is correct on this important fundamental doctrine. I don't read your posts. You know that right? You reject the clear words of Jesus in the Bible and prefer volumes if words as if that makes you right. If you won't listen to Jesus you won't listen to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 4 hours ago, Yakuda said: I don't read your posts. You know that right? You reject the clear words of Jesus in the Bible and prefer volumes if words as if that makes you right. If you won't listen to Jesus you won't listen to me. OK that's your choice. You refuse all attempts to help you understand the Scriptures. You mind is closed. It can only be opened by God's grace if he chooses to do that someday. I will pray for you. But that is the end of trying to discuss the Bible with you because you ended it. "18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. " Romans 9:18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, blackbird said: OK that's your choice. You refuse all attempts to help you understand the Scriptures. You mind is closed. It can only be opened by God's grace if he chooses to do that someday. I will pray for you. But that is the end of trying to discuss the Bible with you because you ended it. "18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. " Romans 9:18 No my mind isnt closed. What I won't put up with though is the protestant tactic of piling on volumes of passages intended to make me think Jesus didn't mean what he plainly said. Remember that thread you deleted? Was it too much for you to realize Jesus said eat my flesh and drink my blood and actually meant it? You pushed passage after passage trying to tell me Jesus couldn't have meant that. You're doing it here too. I'm not ending it you are just like you did in that thread you deleted. You cant delete this one can you? I would run away too if i was you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 On 3/12/2023 at 4:55 PM, blackbird said: Anything goes. Except discrimination without a just cause, that they eight ignore, which makes atheism a better ideology than anti LGBTQ+ right wing religions. Stats are clear that the less religiosity in a nation, the more peaceful and law abiding it is. Check the U.S jail stats. Almost all believers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 On 3/12/2023 at 5:04 PM, blackbird said: Of course nobody should take it upon themselves to punish immoral behavior. Inquisitors and jihadists won't like that. They lose their jobs. Tell us though, if none of us are to correct bad behavior, how can we collectively stop doing bad behavior. Have you not read that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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