Are Trans Women. . . Women?

[Boges]

Yesterday was International Women's Day and #transwomenarewomen was trending on Twitter. 

Our "esteem" PM JT jumped into the fray. 

This may be a bridge too far for many on the quest for inclusion.

Should Trans people face violence? No
Should Trans people be respected? Yes
Are Trans Women the same as biological women? NO!!!!!

Sure an argument can be made that Gender is a construct and boys and girls can be as masculine and feminine as they feel like, and no one is denying them that right. But when a man says he feel like a woman, it doesn't mean they're the same as a person that was born as a women. They never will be. 

I think it's offensive to women who face a myriad of challenges in this world to say that if a man that feels like a woman is basically the same thing. What argument can be made to support this line of reasoning? 

This is really a polarizing topic. Conservatives in the US are looking to ban all sorts of Trans rights and Liberals are looking to tar and feather anyone that doesn't tow the inclusion line. See what's happened to JK Rowlings. 

 

[Perspektiv]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

This is really a polarizing topic.

I don't understand why that it is.

The fact that the word "biological woman" is now deemed a slur almost, and highly offensive to some as a result, show how far this movement has gone.

Blurring the lines as to what a woman is, erases the biological women for who this word used to describe.

Am sorry, but you need a female reproductive system in order to give birth. Identify as you see fit, but I just will never agree with the narrative that a man can give birth. Its biologically impossible.

I have been to Thailand, where they have among the highest percentage of trans women, globally.

They coexist socially, but seem to not have lost the memo. They know they are trans, and are proud and beautiful in their own right for it.

My mother told me to be proud to be black. Why should I feel shame for who I am?

Teach your kids self love, before teaching them gender ideology.

Being different doesn't mean bad, but to gaslight people into believing there are no differences, is the epitome of crazy.

[Americana Antifa]

Yes. No amount of transphobia used to distract from a lack of policy will change that.

[Perspektiv]

26 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

No amount of transphobia

How is it transphobic to recognize the difference between a trans woman and a biological woman?

[Americana Antifa]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

How is it transphobic to recognize the difference between a trans woman and a biological woman?

Well that's more ignorance than transphobia.

[Boges]

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Well that's more ignorance than transphobia.

How is it ignorant to believe a man who thinks he's a woman isn't ACTUALLY a woman? 

[Americana Antifa]

Just now, Boges said:

How is it ignorant to believe a man who thinks he's a woman isn't ACTUALLY a woman? 

Because it's misunderstanding the difference between sex and gender. It's like saying, how can a man think he's ACTUALLY an Italian.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

 Are Trans Women the same as biological women? NO!!!!!

Sure an argument can be made that Gender is a construct and boys and girls can be as masculine and feminine as they feel like, and no one is denying them that right. But when a man says he feel like a woman, it doesn't mean they're the same as a person that was born as a women. They never will be\

I don't think anybody is saying they're exactly the same.

The point is that 'woman' is a social construct that people belong to or don't.  

You have put down the basics that most can adhere to.  The rest of it is virtue signalling and/or culture warring...

We actually have more important things to discuss, if we just agree on the basics.  I agree that we should move on.

[Perspektiv]

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Because it's misunderstanding the difference between sex and gender. It's like saying, how can a man think he's ACTUALLY an Italian.

Humor me. How many genders are there? I have never had a consistent answer on this, so maybe you know.

Also, if you don't know the answer, how can my questions be deemed as ignorant?

[Americana Antifa]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

Humor me. How many genders are there? I have never had a consistent answer on this, so maybe you know.

Also, if you don't know the answer, how can my questions be deemed as ignorant?

Which country we talking about? In America, there's two. But throughout history, there have been different societies with different numbers of genders. Gender is a social construct, after all.

[DMGregoire]

No trans person claims to be a biological (aka cis) gender.  Hence we use the terms cis and trans.

Under individual rights and freedoms they can identify however they want whom are they harming by taking hormones and surgically altering themselves to align their outer person with whom they are inside?

 

Are the objectors of they are not biological planning to do genetic testing on people to confirm biological sex?

 

I find the current hateful and disrespectful speech towards trans people concerning.  People refusing to use their new names (cis and straight people change their names and use names other than their given names all the time- people don't seem to go out of their way to call them by those old names).

 

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Gender is a social construct, after all.

That is fair, but it still doesn't explain how many genders that there could be.

Past or present. If you're going to point to one's ignorance, shouldn't you be able to clarify or confirm what it is that they are ignorant about?

This is the issue I have with those pushing this narrative that a trans woman is now somehow no different than a biological woman.

Should they be treated with the same rights? Of course.

But to say that there are no discernable differences? Really?

Am all for trans rights, but the line gets drawn when am told that politically correct speech for my wife breastfeeding is now "chestfeeding person". 

Yeah, no. She has had years of cramps, giving birth and even an unfortunate miscarriage.

She gets the right to call her breasts, whatever it is that she wants. 

Women should be celebrated. Not further silenced, to accommodate others. 

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think anybody is saying they're exactly the same.

The point is that 'woman' is a social construct that people belong to or don't.  

That 'social construct' has all kinds of rules, laws and regulations built around it designed to protect smaller, weaker females and allow them to live an equal existence with males. There are female sports leagues, for example, in recognition of the physical differences between males and females. There are positions set aside at universities for females. There are female schools and dorms. Female prisons. There are various grants and scholarships. There are male and female showers, and other female only spaces in recognition of the anatomical/biological differences.

The differences between male and female don't go away because a man declares himself a woman, nor even if they take hormones. And the trans activists' insist that trans women be recognized not merely as women but as females - which they are not.

Gender dysmorphia is a real thing. But the fanaticism of trans activists allows for no nuance and no questioning. Their absurd view that a man is a woman the instant he says he is goes against all logic. You call yourself a woman? Get therapy, then get treatment. Have yourself castrated. Have your body altered.  If you were really certain you were born in the wrong body and hate being in that body then have it surgically altered. If you're not prepared to do that then don't intrude into female spaces. Don't give me any bullshit about your 'female penis'. Don't tell me you just decided last Tuesday you're a woman (the day you were convicted of raping women). 

Edited March 9, 2023 by I am Groot

[Americana Antifa]

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

That is fair, but it still doesn't explain how many genders that there could be.

There can be as many as the society determines there are. It's like saying, how many music-based cultures can there be? I don't know, infinite?

In America and Canada, there are two genders. In Albania and India, there are three.

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Past or present. If you're going to point to one's ignorance, shouldn't you be able to clarify or confirm what it is that they are ignorant about?

This is the issue I have with those pushing this narrative that a trans woman is now somehow no different than a biological woman.

So it's like this. Biological sex: Male, female, intersex. Gender: Man/boy, woman/girl, non-binary.

Cis women and trans women are different, so are white women and black women, but they're all still women.

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

But to say that there are no discernable differences? Really?

Nobody says there's no difference.

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Am all for trans rights, but the line gets drawn when am told that politically correct speech for my wife breastfeeding is now "chestfeeding person". 

I've literally never heard this. And even if there are some random weirdos calling it that, who cares?

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree that we should move on.

Trudeau had to be an attention whore once again. He's demanding a reaction, not just letting it move on as you prescribe. 

I myself think it would be better to let it move on, and I don't care what they want to do in their own privacy.

I don't agree that they should be allowed in women's sports. The very reason we have women's sports separate from men is because women's bodies generally do not develop to as large and strong as men's, and that is DNA.

[ironstone]

No.

[Perspektiv]

38 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

And even if there are some random weirdos calling it that, who cares?

Thats the thing. It isn't weirdos. It's activists. Some of which with heavy lobbying power, that can and have forced changes in wording, to appease this community.

No different than the fact that very few high profile individuals dare to define the word woman. Not because they don't know, but because of the wrath of those in these said activism groups that could effectively end your career, by labeling you as transphobic and shaming those who continue to patron your business.

42 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Cis women and trans women are different, so are white women and black women, but they're all still women.

Biologally, one is different.

48 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Nobody says there's no difference.

Plenty do. 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Don't give me any bullshit about your 'female penis'

I was banned from a website for saying I couldn't date a trans woman. I eventually admitted the penis being a deal-breaker, and it would be awkward to ask someone what was between their legs after a 1st date, but it would remain the elephant in the room until it was clarified.

I was told there was no difference. 

Reminded the year, and that genitalia didn't matter anymore. 

To me, tell that to the doctor when you get prostate or cervical cancer. That treatment should be identical. 

Trans women should not compete in sports their physical advantages would give them a leg up, vs biological women.

[Perspektiv]

55 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Nobody says there's no difference.

The logic I struggle with, is when those who claim am not an ally because I don't adopt the same speech and don't argue a thing like am told.

The logic like one saying a Ferrari is no different than a Fiero with a Ferrari body kit on it.

"They sound the same"

"They both start with F"

"They look the same."

"They're the same"

Yeah, but one has a V8 worth maybe 3 Fiero's, is naturally built with carbon fibre and goes way faster...

"You're transphobic"

[Goddess]

How many of you hetero men would seriously date or marry a trans woman?

Why or why not?

Just wondering.  Because I saw an article somewhere that interviewed trans women who feel hetero men should be made to date and marry them.

Women are still getting raped by trans females.  I wonder how men would react if they started raping men.  With their female penises.  I bet jail sentence lengths would go up ?

[I am Groot]

25 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 was banned from a website for saying I couldn't date a trans woman.

Hell, the local school board called the cops on some parent who tried to talk about transgender issues at a public meeting. They adjourned until the person was removed saying they didn't feel safe. Gah! Seriously, these are the kind of people pushing these kinds of dumbass ideas. Fanatics.

25 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I eventually admitted the penis being a deal-breaker, and it would be awkward to ask someone what was between their legs after a 1st date, but it would remain the elephant in the room until it was clarified.

I was told there was no difference. 

Straight men have no interest in sex with people who have dicks. Nor do gay women. If you believe otherwise you might reexamine your sexual preferences. 

In addition, anatomy is only one of the differences. The very violence, the threats, including threats of rape, the physical intimidation and violence that we see coming from so many transgender activists demonstrates their aggressive male mindsets. A lot of them simply do not think like women. In my opinion, a substantial number of them are not only not really suffering from gender dysmorphia but are legitimately suffering from various mental illnesses. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

1. That 'social construct' has all kinds of rules, laws and regulations built around it designed to protect smaller, weaker females and allow them to live an equal existence with males. There are female sports leagues, for example, in recognition of the physical differences between males and females. There are positions set aside at universities for females. There are female schools and dorms. Female prisons. There are various grants and scholarships. There are male and female showers, and other female only spaces in recognition of the anatomical/biological differences.

2.The differences between male and female don't go away because a man declares himself a woman, nor even if they take hormones. And the trans activists' insist that trans women be recognized not merely as women but as females - which they are not.

3. Gender dysmorphia is a real thing. But the fanaticism of trans activists allows for no nuance and no questioning.

 

1. Yes, I agree.
2. I already said that trans women are not identical to women, so I agree here too.
3. I don't agree with every trans activist either.  Seems like we mostly agree.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

The logic I struggle with, is when those who claim am not an ally because I don't adopt the same speech and don't argue a thing like am told.

The logic like one saying a Ferrari is no different than a Fiero with a Ferrari body kit on it.

"They sound the same"

"They both start with F"

"They look the same."

"They're the same"

Yeah, but one has a V8 worth maybe 3 Fiero's, is naturally built with carbon fibre and goes way faster...

"You're transphobic"

In a way this exposes it as a form of marxism. IE There is no difference.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

In a way this exposes it as a form of marxism. IE There is no difference.

?  Marxism ?

[Perspektiv]

51 minutes ago, Goddess said:

How many of you hetero men would seriously date or marry a trans woman?

Why or why not?

I wouldn't. 

I approached a gorgeous trans woman while in Thailand while in a 7-11 thinking she was a biological woman.

She started speaking, in an insanely deep voice, and I was immediately turned off.

I had one approach me in this high pitch mouse like voice, but wasn't taking any chances in that city.

There are so many questions. Today's climate has me asking any of them, as incredibly insensitive.

Transphobic, even.

I don't like implants, women who wear a lot of makeup, and high maintenance women.

The most beautiful trans women I have ever seen, had all of the above, albeit nice to look at.

I would be too turned off to pursue.

My wife barely tries, and looks beautiful in a hoodie, sweatpants sandals and no makeup. 

I know am not into you, if you would have to be perfect, for me to even give you any time of day.

I wouldn't even look at a trans woman unless she was supermodel beautiful.

I would date a slightly above average biological woman from just about any demographic.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

?  Marxism ?

Yes. Sexual Marxism.