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Pierre Pollivere responds to questions of racism in his caucus (hilarious!)


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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

What do you mean by "get a pass?".  You're still talking about it, as is PP.  

 

It's fair to say that as far as public opinion goes he's gotten a bit of a pass on the whole trucker thing, while somehow we're still worked up about his blackface.

Perspektiv has a point that it should probably be the other way around, people should be furious over the use of the emergency act to attack lawful protest while not caring about blackface 30 years ago.

But - ya gotta work with what you've got :)  It was a great line and it makes it hard for the media to keep bugging him about 'racism' issues in this context

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39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It's fair to say that as far as public opinion goes he's gotten a bit of a pass on the whole trucker thing, while somehow we're still worked up about his blackface.

He gets a pass on the trucker thing because the majority of Canadians found the truckers (at best) a nuisance. 

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Perspektiv has a point that it should probably be the other way around, people should be furious over the use of the emergency act to attack lawful protest while not caring about blackface 30 years ago.

Angry at the emergency act, maybe, but you are honing in on the point.  Few people care about blackface from 20+ years ago, when the culture wars hadn't yet begun and dumb shit like that happened all the time.  

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But - ya gotta work with what you've got :)  It was a great line and it makes it hard for the media to keep bugging him about 'racism' issues in this context

I think the line will play well with the base, but do little to assuage the moderate voters he needs to convince.  It would have been nice to see him take a Harper-esque pragmatic approach and assure people that the bubbas in the party are not going to be the leading influences.  

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Angry at the emergency act, maybe, but you are honing in on the point.  Few people care about blackface from 20+ years ago, when the culture wars hadn't yet begun and dumb shit like that happened all the time.  

Few sane people care but it's a bugaboo for the left. The left frequently dredge up old quotes and activities and hoist them as proof a person is unfit today. So when they get their nose rubbed in trudeau's blackface it forces them back a bit, they have been arguing that kind of thing SHOULD matter for some time.

I mean i do get why blackface still irks them and the emergency act doesn't. The reasoning is fairly transparant. But it shouldn't be that way, i think that was Pers's point and it' not a bad one :)

 

Quote

I think the line will play well with the base, but do little to assuage the moderate voters he needs to convince.  It would have been nice to see him take a Harper-esque pragmatic approach and assure people that the bubbas in the party are not going to be the leading influences.  

I can see feeling that way, it's not without merit. But in fairness he did do that and the press is still continuing to hound him. The danger is that he wunds up having to answer the same question for the next two weeks while the left-friendly media tries to keep it in front of voters.

This kind of kills that. And we've seen him do that successfully before. It actually plays fairly well with moderate voters brecause it's not the angry name calling thing they hate but it's clever and gets the point across. So it shuts up the left, doesn't offend the middle and even amuses them slightly, and plays well with the right. It's a pretty darn good way to handle a tough question that the press wants to feed on.

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

He gets a pass on the trucker thing because the majority of Canadians found the truckers (at best) a nuisance. 

Angry at the emergency act, maybe, but you are honing in on the point.  Few people care about blackface from 20+ years ago, when the culture wars hadn't yet begun and dumb shit like that happened all the time.  

I think the line will play well with the base, but do little to assuage the moderate voters he needs to convince.  It would have been nice to see him take a Harper-esque pragmatic approach and assure people that the bubbas in the party are not going to be the leading influences.  

“At best”?   Very much your opinion inserted there.  The use of the Emergencies Act and the treatment of protesters have totally stripped Trudeau of respect and credibility for millions of Canadians.  It’s far more significant than you seem to think.  

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3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I mean i do get why blackface still irks them and the emergency act doesn't. The reasoning is fairly transparant. But it shouldn't be that way, i think that was Pers's point and it' not a bad one :)

It probably does, just not as much as the trucker protest did.  As for Blackface, nobody really cares.  Trudeau's already won two elections since that story came out, so it's obviously not something that Canadians are particularly worried about.  We've probably both done dumb shit we'd be embarrassed about in our past, and that's how people make their peace with small stuff like this.  

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I can see feeling that way, it's not without merit. But in fairness he did do that and the press is still continuing to hound him. The danger is that he wunds up having to answer the same question for the next two weeks while the left-friendly media tries to keep it in front of voters.

Sort of like how Trudeau apologized about Black Face and people are still bringing it up.  All I've been reading about in the "left-friendly" media lately has been about Chinese election interference.  Maybe stay away from the Star or the CBC.  ?‍♂️

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

This kind of kills that. And we've seen him do that successfully before. It actually plays fairly well with moderate voters brecause it's not the angry name calling thing they hate but it's clever and gets the point across. 

If that was clever, we're setting the bar pretty low.  I guess we're talking about politicians though, so maybe it counts.  As for the moderate voters, they're not going to care.  They made their peace and reconciled with Black Face years ago, so beating that dead horse I think comes across as petty more than anything.  

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8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

“At best”?   Very much your opinion inserted there.  

Okay.  

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The use of the Emergencies Act and the treatment of protesters have totally stripped Trudeau of respect and credibility for millions of Canadians.  It’s far more significant than you seem to think.  

That's also, like, your opinion, man.  

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Angry at the emergency act, maybe, but you are honing in on the point.  Few people care about blackface from 20+ years ago, when the culture wars hadn't yet begun and dumb shit like that happened all the time.  

Oh come on. Even one such instance has been known to destroy careers. And for someone as sanctimonious as Trudeau to have done it multiple times, including with a banana in his pants, and pay no political prices is pretty wild. I have no doubt that if it had been one of Trudeau's MPs with the same history he'd have booted him from caucus and sternly spoken of the need to call our racism and punish it wherever it is found.

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13 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Sort of like how Trudeau apologized about Black Face and people are still bringing it up.

Yes - it's a common tactic on the left that's being used by the right at the moment. And as SOON as the right does, listen to the whining  :)

But your whataboutism is hilarious :)

 

13 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

  All I've been reading about in the "left-friendly" media lately has been about Chinese election interference.  Maybe stay away from the Star or the CBC.

Well obviously that's not true. There's a lot of other stories in the 'left media'. So that's not 'all' you've been reading about if you've been reading their papers.

And doing a search on the cbc site, there's actually very very few stories on it.' And of the stories that are there, it's often downplayed or the pm's response is being inflated.

Only a few on teh star either. Athough at least some of those are a little more critical.

So if you're pretending that somehow the CBC has back to back coverage of this issue - nope.

But hey - maybe i'm wrong and just couldn't see it. Tell you what - post one story for each of the last 7 days from the CBC about it and we'll take a look at them.  I mean - if it's "ALL"  you've been reading about then there must be at least one story a day. Lets take a look. I'll wait.

22 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

If that was clever, we're setting the bar pretty low.  I guess we're talking about politicians though, so maybe it counts. 

:)

22 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

 

As for the moderate voters, they're not going to care.  They made their peace and reconciled with Black Face years ago, so beating that dead horse I think comes across as petty more than anything.  

They care. They don't particularly care about blackface but it makes PP look strong and in charge. Guaranteed some of the more left wing papers will try to write an article explaining why it isn't (which is a guaranteed sign that it is). People in general want strong leaders and that kind of reply shows strength and wit and that the person can handle themselves and that's a big deal to voters.

That was one of the big problems with otoole, and to a slightly lesser degree scheer.  Both had a habit of being caught off guard by a question and not having a good answer that would shut the media down and they got cricified for it - scheer over the abortion question (which he SHOULD have known was coming) and otoole over guns and "where's jason kenney'.  They got slaughtered over that - Pollievre will be wining some points with these kinds of responses

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5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yes - it's a common tactic on the left that's being used by the right at the moment. And as SOON as the right does, listen to the whining  :)

But your whataboutism is hilarious :)

My whataboutism?  

Go watch that video again and tell me that isn't...whataboutism.  ?

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well obviously that's not true. There's a lot of other stories in the 'left media'. So that's not 'all' you've been reading about if you've been reading their papers.

Sure, there are lots of stories in the "left media".  You don't know what I've been reading though, do you?  

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And doing a search on the cbc site, there's actually very very few stories on it.' And of the stories that are there, it's often downplayed or the pm's response is being inflated.

As I already said, maybe don't go to the CBC, or the Toronto Star.  That's kind of like going to Fox News and looking for pro-Biden stories, isn't it?  

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But hey - maybe i'm wrong and just couldn't see it. Tell you what - post one story for each of the last 7 days from the CBC about it and we'll take a look at them.  I mean - if it's "ALL"  you've been reading about then there must be at least one story a day. Lets take a look. I'll wait.

I just made a point of telling you to stay away from the CBC (and the Star), agreeing and acknowledging their obvious bias, and you're challenging me to find sources from them?  Awkward.  

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They got slaughtered over that - Pollievre will be wining some points with these kinds of responses

If you say so.?

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22 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Oh come on. Even one such instance has been known to destroy careers. And for someone as sanctimonious as Trudeau to have done it multiple times, including with a banana in his pants, and pay no political prices is pretty wild.

You can question him and his judgement and his sincerity.  I certainly do.  An offensive costume from 20+ years ago is obviously not something many Canadians are concerned about.  If you're so concerned about cancel-culture and wokeism, why are you even talking about it? 

22 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I have no doubt that if it had been one of Trudeau's MPs with the same history he'd have booted him from caucus and sternly spoken of the need to call our racism and punish it wherever it is found.

Sort of like he booted Mary Ng out of his cabinet for conflict of interest scandals and for hiring campaign managers with potential ties to Chinese intelligence?  I wouldn't be so sure.  ?

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

My whataboutism?  

Go watch that video again and tell me that isn't...whataboutism.  ?

No, it isn't. Its what we described originally. Whataboutism would be something different, like saying what they did was ok BECAUSE of trudeau's antics. Instead what he's saying is that he's addressed the issue and there's certainly worse things out there.

Amusingly your reply is ALSO whataboutism. :)  Congrats - you've mastered it ;)  Now try gaslighting!

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Sure, there are lots of stories in the "left media".  You don't know what I've been reading though, do you?  

In order to find the tiny number of stories involving chinese interference you would have to read at least some other headlines or the like. You couldn't find it otherwise. So while i don't know what you've been reading, i know your statement that ALL you've been reading is stories about china is most likely false.

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

As I already said, maybe don't go to the CBC, or the Toronto Star. 

you literally referenced the cbc and the star.  For heaven's sake if you can't pay attention to me could you at least pay attention to you?

 

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

I just made a point of telling you to stay away from the CBC (and the Star), agreeing and acknowledging their obvious bias, and you're challenging me to find sources from them?  Awkward.  

No, you did not. We both know that. So.. it would appear you're resorting to lies to cover your mistakes?

Awkward indeed.  But - i suppose if you have to tell me i was right without telling me that's as good a way as any.

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

If you say so.?

I do. :) but then again - i read more than just the cbc and the star, so i was bound to  be better informed ?

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I think the line will play well with the base, but do little to assuage the moderate voters he needs to convince.  It would have been nice to see him take a Harper-esque pragmatic approach and assure people that the bubbas in the party are not going to be the leading influences.  

Oh I doubt today's generation of conservative Bubba's will stand for being treated like Randy White, they'll be looking for the sort of recognition and respect Marjorie Taylor Greene has come to expect.

 

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4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

It probably does, just not as much as the trucker protest did.  As for Blackface, nobody really cares.  Trudeau's already won two elections since that story came out, so it's obviously not something that Canadians are particularly worried about.  We've probably both done dumb shit we'd be embarrassed about in our past, and that's how people make their peace with small stuff like this.  

Sort of like how Trudeau apologized about Black Face and people are still bringing it up.  All I've been reading about in the "left-friendly" media lately has been about Chinese election interference.  Maybe stay away from the Star or the CBC.  ?‍♂️

If that was clever, we're setting the bar pretty low.  I guess we're talking about politicians though, so maybe it counts.  As for the moderate voters, they're not going to care.  They made their peace and reconciled with Black Face years ago, so beating that dead horse I think comes across as petty more than anything.  

Perhaps you have, i have a few regrets as well, but i'm not the PM , who's entire life is public, and is open to public criticism. That will never go away, just as PP remarks about bit coin or directly supporting the truckers, that does not go away either. And nor should it. 

If their is one thing Justin is good at it is apologizing even for things he had nothing to do with.  a few words do not take those actions away...As for the Media, i think they are playing the ball, just some were playing long before the left media picked it up...And that is becasue this ball of shit is gathering speed, and just might turn into something much bigger. although i doubt it will be enough for Teflon man...

It is not moderate voters, it is hard core liberal voters, who don't seem to care or even think something was wrong with it, same as all the other gaffs he has done, the constant lying, deceiving Canadians every single day, has got to say something about that segment of the population either they don't care , or they hold the same morals and values...how else do you explain it...

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2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No, it isn't. Its what we described originally. Whataboutism would be something different, like saying what they did was ok BECAUSE of trudeau's antics. Instead what he's saying is that he's addressed the issue and there's certainly worse things out there.

Whataboutism is never a justification.  It's a deflection and a counter-accusation....so exactly what PP did in your video.  Your ability to bluster when you're so obviously wrong about stuff like this is impressive.  Thanks for the chuckle.   

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

you literally referenced the cbc and the star.  For heaven's sake if you can't pay attention to me could you at least pay attention to you?

Yes, I referenced them by literally saying "stay away from" them, and in your bizarro take is...what?   That I think we should all go there for great journalism, or something?  

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No, you did not. We both know that. So.. it would appear you're resorting to lies to cover your mistakes?

No, it appears you're once again making up what I'm saying, and arguing against that instead.  ?

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Perhaps you have, i have a few regrets as well, but i'm not the PM , who's entire life is public, and is open to public criticism. That will never go away, just as PP remarks about bit coin or directly supporting the truckers, that does not go away either. And nor should it. 

Absolutely right.  

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

If their is one thing Justin is good at it is apologizing even for things he had nothing to do with.  a few words do not take those actions away...As for the Media, i think they are playing the ball, just some were playing long before the left media picked it up...And that is becasue this ball of shit is gathering speed, and just might turn into something much bigger. although i doubt it will be enough for Teflon man...

I've said before, I'm not so sure on this issue.  The Globeandmail is a dog on a bone with this.  

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It is not moderate voters, it is hard core liberal voters, who don't seem to care or even think something was wrong with it, same as all the other gaffs he has done, the constant lying, deceiving Canadians every single day, has got to say something about that segment of the population either they don't care , or they hold the same morals and values...how else do you explain it...

Being a hardcore liberal isn't any better or worse than being a hardcore conservative.  Folks just follow their programming.  They excuse Liberal gaffes/scandals and get outraged by conservative ones, and the conservatives do the exact same thing. You can point at their morals, and they can point at yours.  It's pointless. 

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48 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Absolutely right.  

I've said before, I'm not so sure on this issue.  The Globeandmail is a dog on a bone with this.  

Being a hardcore liberal isn't any better or worse than being a hardcore conservative.  Folks just follow their programming.  They excuse Liberal gaffes/scandals and get outraged by conservative ones, and the conservatives do the exact same thing. You can point at their morals, and they can point at yours.  It's pointless. 

No.  You speak as though the Liberal Party of Canada is currently on the same moral ground as the Conservative Party.  It isn’t.  It’s not even about liberal versus conservative because the Liberals are no longer truly liberal and the Conservatives are barely conservative.   The Liberals are anti-democratic and unaccountable elites.  They are the establishment that hides behind woke-green rhetoric.  They don’t stand up for workers or the middle class or families.  They’re about increasing their own power by using taxpayer money to buy votes.   They’re destroying Canada with their overreach and phoney rhetoric.  They’re dishonest and unethical. Trudeau has divided the country and sold out our democracy to foreign powers such as China and the UN. Canada is broken mainly because of this current federal government.  

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11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

people should be furious over the use of the emergency act to attack lawful protest while not caring about blackface 30 years ago.

Huh? Why not both. The man's an obvious faker and hypocrite, that why he is so despised. He was 29 yo in the photo wearing the big white turban. The one where he's groping some broad with nice tits.

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10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Whataboutism is never a justification.  It's a deflection and a counter-accusation....

Stop using it then.

 

10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

so exactly what PP did in your video.  Your ability to bluster when you're so obviously wrong about stuff like this is impressive.  Thanks for the chuckle.   

ROFLMAO - speaking of deflection and counter-accusation :)

And you obviously don't know what 'whataboutism' actually is. It is the attempt to dismiss a bad action by claiming someone else at some point did a non-related bad action and therefore because they are so bad it justifies this person being bad.

In otherwords -  "sir you lied to your constituents". "So? that other politician embezzled money! What about that?".  They're both wrong things to do and they're not even related.

Whataboutism isn't if you compare the same thing btw.  That's precedent or comparison.  For example it's not whataboutism if someone were to say 'Sir you declared the emergency act to stop a protest".  And they replied "So? Justin trudeau did the same thing in similar circumstances."   That would not be whataboutism.

PP said what his people did is unacceptable. His jab at trudeau simply says "We already hold our people to a higher standard than the liberals do, and the liberals forgave justin's far worse example of racism so what's the issue.

Not whataboutism little guy :)

So you were wrong. Go on now - have your hissy fit in reply :)

 

10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, I referenced them by literally saying "stay away from" them,

Directly afgter saying you've been seeing nothing but stories about election interference.  I'm sure you know how english works, i don't have to explain this do i?

You - "the left wing papers are full of these stories. I'll mention the cbc and the star"

Me " theres nothing in the cbc or the star"

You - "What?!?!? Why would you bring up the cbc and the star??? That was completely unrelated and said at random!"

ROFLMAO - Tell the whole world you're a cheesy person without teling them :) LOL - wow, that was bad even for you

 

Like i said - being dishoenst to cover your mistakes. Honestly - if you make a mistake like that it's better to either just ignore it and move on OR even better just be a man about it and say 'ok, that was wrong' :) Now you just look ridiculous to everyone

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8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And you obviously don't know what 'whataboutism' actually is. It is the attempt to dismiss a bad action by claiming someone else at some point did a non-related bad action and therefore because they are so bad it justifies this person being bad.

Sorry joker, but that's not what it is.  It's not a justification.  It's a deflection - a distraction.  That you've already been corrected on this, and you're still blustering ignorantly and you still haven't even looked up the term to confirm whether you're right (which you aren't) tells us a lot about you.  

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You - "the left wing papers are full of these stories. I'll mention the cbc and the star"

I mentioned the CBC and the star by saying "stay away from them".  Somehow that translates to you as "Check out the CBC and the Star".  ?

 

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9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Huh? Why not both. The man's an obvious faker and hypocrite, that why he is so despised. He was 29 yo in the photo wearing the big white turban. The one where he's groping some broad with nice tits.

Because one is a minor gaffe that's more inappropriate than actually a sign that he's genuinely racist that happened at a time when perception of that kind of thing was VERY different, and he's acknowledge that in light of today's morals it would be considered offensive by many. So its really a bit of a bullshit issue that happened a long time ago when the world was different and evne when it broke the conservatives said 'we don't really care, what pisses us off is he's trying to lie about  it now and pretending it happened once, then 3 times, now he can't remember how many",

And the other is a deliberate act to violate the rights of Canadians engaged in lawful protest and a gross misuse of power that's been seen as dictatorial all over the world that happened last year.

They are not the same thing.

 

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10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No.  You speak as though the Liberal Party of Canada is currently on the same moral ground as the Conservative Party.  It isn’t.  It’s not even about liberal versus conservative because the Liberals are no longer truly liberal and the Conservatives are barely conservative.  

When were the conservatives, conservative to you, I wonder?  ?

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