Here we go again the liberals setting a standard for femisism.

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

We have an option. The cheapest and likely the most effective is a nuclear deterrence. My point above was that there are so many demands on government resources, Defence is a lower priority. We may become involved in a war at some future date, but people need healthcare now. Mitigation of climate change needs to happen now. So, do we pour money into a defence budget for a hypothetical war and triage healthcare and say to hell with our future generations? That is a question voters will answer, as they have in the past. 

There is always options, If we could find a solution to just one problem then sure ( not becasue we are incapable, but it seems our government is), let's do health care. But since we are a G-7 country we should be able to atleast do a few at a time, Germany just spent 100 bil, little old Australia has spent 300 Bil over a 5-to-10-year period, both had the pandemic, but we cannot some reason solve anything of any importance. 

So do i cancel my house insurance because of a hypothetical fire, keeping in mind that our military does more than defense. 

Climate change is a want that nobody really cares about on a global scale.  

[TreeBeard]

22 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Canadian soldiers have and will always defend this nation regardless…

You’re the one who said they’d welcome invaders into the country (the definition of treason), not me.  I have a higher view of them than that.  
 

The rest of your post was bellyaching. 

[Army Guy]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:26 PM, Moonbox said:

Obviously they don't, but I don't think Canada really needs to worry about the puerile perceptions of poverty stricken and backwards dictatorships and third world crapholes. 

Nope.  It still doesn't.  Getting stoned kills you.  Showing up to a drag show, at worse, looks odd and weird.  If Trudeau brought an entourage of drag queens to Saudi Arabia, then their opinion would matter.  Outside of that, their fragile moral sensibilities couldn't matter less to what we do here in Canada.  They certainly don't give a shit what we think.  

Perhaps you haven't noticed the changing times.  

There's a code of conduct, for sure, but it is fortunately not based on your vague personal judgements of what's "appropriate".  So far the only consequence for this that you've been able to offer is that the Supreme Ayatollah might not respect us as much.  

As I said, perception isn't everything.  Putin spent the last 10 years cultivating a culture of machismo and genius.  Through his poor decisions, he's upended that perception over a few months and is now widely considered a paranoid, lame-duck President on a ticking clock.  His decisions were what mattered.  You know what had nothing to do with it?  Cringe-worthy photo ops of him riding horseback and topless, showing off his saggy man-boobs.  

You mean the same backwards dictatorships and 3 rd world crap holes who handed NATO politicians their asses in the last conflict, ya those guys.

Dressing up in drag in a lot of Muslim countries will get you stoned dead... Justin brings whatever baggage he has everywhere he goes. And your right they really don't give a S*** what we think, because our international reputation is licking boots it is what we are good at, and maybe it is just these things that have attributed to all that reputation.

For you it is no big deal but overseas these things do play a part in how your perceived and how other deal with you. Don't tell me you have never judged someone by what they have done or didn't do i mean you and i have made judgements here on this forum without even meeting these people, why do you think politicians are different. 

Perhaps my opinion is out of date as you suggest, but in my line of work i have had to deal with all kinds of people on domestic operations such as floods, ice storms, Olympic security, not all of them were happy, and also in foreign countries that were either hostile or friendly, all took some diplomatic skills to handle, it was not all shoot them and carry on. So yes, everything you have done, or did, how you dress, your physical demeaner, how you behave, what your body language is like, all plays a role on how any interaction is going to play out.

Would you say Justins good hair and socks played a role in gaining women's votes. Thats what the media is saying. So, I'll ask again what benefit Justin is going to get out of this interaction, and what are the negatives, even here in Canada there is going to be a negative factor to this, not all agree with this choice. 

Putins fall from grace is more due to his militaries senior's commanders, corruption, incompetence, that have fooled everyone across the globe into thinking the Russian war machine was this huge bear waiting to maul anything it came into contact with. funding for equipment and training have been funneled somewhere else. Made crystal clear in Ukraine, special troops like airborne, airmobile, had very little training past the basics and resulted in most of these units being wiped out in a few days after the invasion. Life means nothing in the Russian military, money and corruption run everything, they don't even collect their dead, and in some cases shot the wounded, or leave them to die ...

Putin is one of the last of the old school, don't underestimate the man, nuking the world is always an option, he knows the cost of failure being taken out into the woods and shoot in the back of the head.

[Army Guy]

21 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You’re the one who said they’d welcome invaders into the country (the definition of treason), not me.  I have a higher view of them than that.  
 

The rest of your post was bellyaching. 

No that is not what i said, but thanks for trying,  i said they would more in likely welcome US troops into the country, because they have done more for our troops than our government and people have. And let's be clear, if this ever played out into reality, it would be over before you rolled out of bed. Seeing how we have 5 military bases that would make any difference inland, and one on each coast which in reality could be taken over by less than a BN of men for each , once those were taken then that would leave small pockets of Canadian soldiers' that would not stand a chance against well-armed and trained soldiers, whose numbers would be more in the range of 1000 to one. you'd wake up with an American flag planted up you're a$$, and a handbook in your hand on how to sing the star spangle banner.

That is all by design, our government and the citizens wanted it that way...

I think you underestimate our militaries bond with our brothers down south. 

As for any other invader, our soldiers would fight until they could no longer, not long well because our government and its people designed it that way. 

I'm sure they sleep in comfort knowing your opinion of them is higher, but that is where it all ends right, at your opinion, not in funding them so they can train or have equipment that saves lives. 

The belly aching, I'll take full credit for, but i will say this there are thousands of disenfranchised soldiers out there than just me. How could there not be, you guys treat us like shit, 364 days out of the year, and for that you demand 100 % loyalty in return for that one day. 

 

[Moonbox]

47 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You mean the same backwards dictatorships and 3 rd world crap holes who handed NATO politicians their asses in the last conflict, ya those guys.

Which conflict was that?  Afghanistan?  You think NATO left because they "got their asses handed to them"???  You were there, weren't you?  Were you guys getting your asses handed to you, or were you in a fractious region with no national identity that didn't share our values?  Did we lose a war there, or did we finally extricate ourselves from a mission with vague long-term goals and unrealistic expectations?  

47 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Dressing up in drag in a lot of Muslim countries will get you stoned dead... Justin brings whatever baggage he has everywhere he goes. And your right they really don't give a S*** what we think, because our international reputation is licking boots it is what we are good at, and maybe it is just these things that have attributed to all that reputation.

The only baggage here, I suspect, is your own.  These regimes don't give a shit what we think regardless of what we do, nor do we give a shit what they think.  We do not and should not live our lives according to what a fundamentalist despot regards as respectable behavior.  

47 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Would you say Justins good hair and socks played a role in gaining women's votes. Thats what the media is saying. So, I'll ask again what benefit Justin is going to get out of this interaction, and what are the negatives, even here in Canada there is going to be a negative factor to this, not all agree with this choice. 

I'd say Justin might have a bit of fun, and maybe he gets some LGBTQ votes.  The negative?  Some uptight prudes back home who were never going to vote for him anyways might have a hissy, and not vote for him even more.  

47 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Putins fall from grace is more due to his militaries senior's commanders, corruption, incompetence, that have fooled everyone across the globe into thinking the Russian war machine was this huge bear waiting to maul anything it came into contact with. funding for equipment and training have been funneled somewhere else.

You don't have to tell me that.  I started a whole thread pretty much saying everything you do here.  My point was that basing your geo-political decisions on projections and perception of their personal values is a recipe for failure.  A decade-long campaign by Putin to convince everyone of his and his country's Orthodox manly energy failed to impress anyone, and his own assessment of soft pinko western Liberals collided with reality.  Here is now, revealed as the insecure and paranoid manlet that he is and probably wishing he'd been more pragmatic.  

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Moonbox

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

  i said they would more in likely welcome US troops into the country

Yes…. You think they’d commit treason.  I have a higher opinion of them than that.  

[Army Guy]

30 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Which conflict was that?  Afghanistan?  You think NATO left because they "got their asses handed to them"???  You were there, weren't you?  Were you guys getting your asses handed to you, or were you in a fractious region with no national identity that didn't share our values?  Did we lose a war there, or did we finally extricate ourselves from a mission with vague long-term goals and unrealistic expectations?  

The only baggage here, I suspect, is your own.  These regimes don't give a shit what we think regardless of what we do, nor do we give a shit what they think.  We do not and should not live our lives according to what a fundamentalist despot regards as respectable behavior.  

I'd say Justin might have a bit of fun, and maybe he gets some LGBTQ votes.  The negative?  Some uptight prudes back home who were never going to vote for him anyways might have a hissy, and not vote for him even more.  

You don't have to tell me that.  I started a whole thread pretty much saying everything you do here.  My point was that basing your geo-political decisions on projections and perception of their personal values is a recipe for failure.  A decade-long campaign by Putin to convince everyone of his and his country's Orthodox manly energy failed to impress anyone, and his own assessment of soft pinko western Liberals collided with reality.  Here is now, revealed as the insecure and paranoid manlet that he is and probably wishing he'd been more pragmatic.  

 

Yes Afghanistan, Not NATO as in the military alliance but rather the Politicians and citizens within those countries, NATO militaries forces never lost a battle, just like Vietnam, and yet western countries grew tired and quit, Canada quit well before the rest of NATO did. And it did not cost them a thing, our soldiers paid for all the blood sweat, and tears, and the entire cost was taken out of DND budget. 

You can blame mission statements, or unrealistic expectations all you want, The military war fighting portion of the mission accomplished everything it was assigned to due, where everything fell apart was politicians' portion, winning hearts and minds, rebuilding the nation, etc. that and following the will of the people that elected them, like they knew how to do it.

Again, maybe it is me, but i think diplomacy is a little deeper than you think it is.

I would say most of the LGBTQ already vote for the left, those that are on the right are not changing their vote because Justin attended a trans tv show. I personally think he'll lose more than he will gain, But then again i'm just some uptight prude who will never vote for the left...

Apparently, it convinced everyone that Mother Russia had huge teeth, it was the recent vacation in Ukraine that has brought to light the big lie.

And if anything, those soft pinko western liberals were scared and are still on what could have been, most of NATO is on track to spend well past 2 % GDP on defense, well except for Canada, can we get a huuurrraaa. we don't like to pay for anything as you said.  I'm almost convinced that he was sold a bill of goods from his subordinates that they did have teeth at no time was he really scared of what NATO could coble together for a fighting force...which is nothing of any great size or strength, we just produce better weapons that work well except Canada, our equipment is on par with most Russian stuff. 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Yes…. You think they’d commit treason.  I have a higher opinion of them than that.  

Thats what happens when you beat a dog for so long...and like i said they don't care what your opinion is, your actions have already spoke volumes. and in the case of the majority of Canadians all I here is crickets. 

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Thats what happens when you beat a dog for so long...and like i said they don't care what your opinion is, your actions have already spoke volumes. and in the case of the majority of Canadians all I here is crickets. 

Nah, I think they’d fight as ordered.  This is you projecting what you would do onto Canadian troops.  Would you commit treason?

[I am Groot]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:07 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

We have an option. The cheapest and likely the most effective is a nuclear deterrence. My point above was that there are so many demands on government resources, Defence is a lower priority. We may become involved in a war at some future date, but people need healthcare now. Mitigation of climate change needs to happen now. So, do we pour money into a defence budget for a hypothetical war and triage healthcare and say to hell with our future generations? That is a question voters will answer, as they have in the past. 

The problem is that as we neglect our defense budget to pour money into climate change Russia and China are instead pouring money into their defense budgets and building coal plants. Talk about mitigation! Nothing we do is of the slightest importance compared to all those coal plants coming online every year

[Moonbox]

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You can blame mission statements, or unrealistic expectations all you want, The military war fighting portion of the mission accomplished everything it was assigned to due, where everything fell apart was politicians' portion, winning hearts and minds, rebuilding the nation, etc. that and following the will of the people that elected them, like they knew how to do it.

I don't really think I'm the best to comment on this, especially to an army vet who served there.  Having served there, you know better than most how troubled that area's history has been.  I wonder if you have any opinions on how you were going to unite a disparate collection of (often hostile) tribes under a single purpose/identity in the span of 15-20 years.  I guess my questions are, what would have made this turn out better?  Are we regretting how we conducted the mission, or the resources (and more importantly) the lives that were spent?

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Again, maybe it is me, but i think diplomacy is a little deeper than you think it is.

Yet you're the one arguing that it's based on shallow personal judgements of what individuals do in their free time.  I would argue it's based on far more pragmatic concerns.  

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I would say most of the LGBTQ already vote for the left, those that are on the right are not changing their vote because Justin attended a trans tv show. I personally think he'll lose more than he will gain, But then again i'm just some uptight prude who will never vote for the left...

and that last bit is the sort of sentiment that dooms Conservatives to losing election after election.  Embracing the LGBTQ community signals that they are welcomed and valued by the Justin and the Liberal Party, growing his base in a minority group (minority groups usually have lower turnout).  The Conservatives have spent the last 7 years doing the opposite, convincing social progressives they don't belong.  If the screeching on this forum is to be believed, I'm a communist lefty/libby blah blah blah despite only voting Liberal a combined twice in my life provincially and federally.  

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Apparently, it convinced everyone that Mother Russia had huge teeth, it was the recent vacation in Ukraine that has brought to light the big lie.

but did it, really?  NATO has known since the end of the USSR that the Red Army was not nearly as strong as it made itself out to be.  We've always known they have lots of nukes and hoards of ancient equipment in reserves, but we also knew how dysfunctional it all was from expats who'd served and were debriefed abroad.  Without the Soviet command economy at its disposal, the Russian army was thought to be a shell of its former self, though it undoubtedly still had teeth.  

Putin's bluster and machismo, however, were not what led to these perceptions.  The tens of thousands of Soviet era tanks in reserve and large fit-for-service population were.    

[Army Guy]

14 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I don't really think I'm the best to comment on this, especially to an army vet who served there.  Having served there, you know better than most how troubled that area's history has been.  I wonder if you have any opinions on how you were going to unite a disparate collection of (often hostile) tribes under a single purpose/identity in the span of 15-20 years.  I guess my questions are, what would have made this turn out better?  Are we regretting how we conducted the mission, or the resources (and more importantly) the lives that were spent?

Yet you're the one arguing that it's based on shallow personal judgements of what individuals do in their free time.  I would argue it's based on far more pragmatic concerns.  

and that last bit is the sort of sentiment that dooms Conservatives to losing election after election.  Embracing the LGBTQ community signals that they are welcomed and valued by the Justin and the Liberal Party, growing his base in a minority group (minority groups usually have lower turnout).  The Conservatives have spent the last 7 years doing the opposite, convincing social progressives they don't belong.  If the screeching on this forum is to be believed, I'm a communist lefty/libby blah blah blah despite only voting Liberal a combined twice in my life provincially and federally.  

but did it, really?  NATO has known since the end of the USSR that the Red Army was not nearly as strong as it made itself out to be.  We've always known they have lots of nukes and hoards of ancient equipment in reserves, but we also knew how dysfunctional it all was from expats who'd served and were debriefed abroad.  Without the Soviet command economy at its disposal, the Russian army was thought to be a shell of its former self, though it undoubtedly still had teeth.  

Putin's bluster and machismo, however, were not what led to these perceptions.  The tens of thousands of Soviet era tanks in reserve and large fit-for-service population were.    

The best person to answer all those questions would be someone that was one step back for it all, my version is going to be bias, as we all lost something in Afghanistan. 

Bringing all the tribes into the fold was a mission imposable, however the coalition did manage to cobble together a huge string of candidates, for the people of Afghanistan to vote on, Canidates were from all the tribes and regions. The people did vote, most traveled hundreds of km by foot donkey or truck. The people wanted change; they want a say in the next ruler, they were sick of conflict, already well over 30 years at that time. 

keep Pakistan intel and ground forces out of the conflict, a much larger diplomatic arm, Canada for the most part left all or most of that to the military to figure out, which we had no real experience doing, our specialty was killing shit, not diplomacy. Having the entire conflict funded out of foreign affairs who could have access a much larger funding pool, instead the entire conflict was funded out of DND budget, the fighting, and the diplomatic side, like building projects like the dam, or PRT projects which was military teams building schools, wells, highways, etc...

The conduct of the mission was hampered by politics. restricting what each contingent could do, everyone nation there all had restrictions on what we could or could not do. restriction on what equipment could be sent and how it could be used, not everyone has the same rules of engagements, meaning some nations could be used in offensive operations, some could not, only defensive operations, some not allowed to leave their camps. Canadas rules of engagement near the end of the conflict was if anyone felt threatened in any way, they could use deadly force, very relaxed and opened. It takes great restraint not to kill someone, as accountability was relaxed. 

The only thing i regret is how our nation treated us once we returned back to Canada. due to the shortage of fighting troops some troops have as many as 8 tours of duty, each 6 plus months on average troops had 4 tours of duty. most troops had at least 2 or 3 tours of duty. DND did not ask to many PTSD questions, unless a soldier asked for help, they would continue sending troops into combat regardless of mental health state, unless who were crazy and made it obvious. So troops would just keep getting mental health injuries until it accumulated to one serious case. and due to lack of mental health specialists many would digress into drug addicts, hard core criminals, homeless, sent to prison.

Resources where being whittle down to the bare minimum as the war became unpopular, thats around the half way mark, when enough soldiers had died special interest groups would force changes, like purchasing us G-wagons which could be mildly armored, to replace open air iltis jeeps, of course once the ambassador was blown up in one those two were withdrawn.  all our resupply was down by truck, while most other nations flew their supplies around, most of our deaths were due to IED's until we started renting helos some from Russia, then the US, our helos that were ordered came in after we had withdrawn from the area.  there are thousands of examples of how we were denied resources required to just stay afloat but know this while we suffered from the lack of everything, troops in Canada suffered the most, no funding for training, ammo, spare parts, everything were very limited. 

Every soldier opinion is going to be different; some will say nothing over there was worth it. For me it has to be worth it, a lot of good friends and acquaintances did not make it home to their families, or they did not come back in one piece. And i would hate like hell to have their lifes wasted on some useless mission. our sacrifices did manage to give them 15 years of freedom free of terrorist scumbags, an entire generation of women got educations, human rights were making a comeback, an entire generation had some hope for the future. All that ended when the politicians decided to leave.

 

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Nah, I think they’d fight as ordered.  This is you projecting what you would do onto Canadian troops.  Would you commit treason?

 

 

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The only thing i regret is how our nation treated us once we returned back to Canada. due to the shortage of fighting troops some troops have as many as 8 tours of duty, each 6 plus months on average troops had 4 tours of duty. most troops had at least 2 or 3 tours of duty. DND did not ask to many PTSD questions, unless a soldier asked for help, they would continue sending troops into combat regardless of mental health state, unless who were crazy and made it obvious. So troops would just keep getting mental health injuries until it accumulated to one serious case. and due to lack of mental health specialists many would digress into drug addicts, hard core criminals, homeless, sent to prison.

I've heard similar stories from others, and even some who didn't even serve in Afghanistan.  I don't think our soldiers are properly supported.  I don't think they have been for decades. I wish it would change and we made it more of a priority.  

As far as Afghanistan goes and what could have been done differently, I'll defer to you on that.  I just don't know much about it, other than how this seems to be another example of the region's 3000 years of history repeating itself.  

[Nationalist]

More Pixie-Dust. Oh goodie.

[RedDog]

Another day. Another occasion being embarrassed by the pretend “country”.

Get Alberta out.

 

[Dougie93]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:43 PM, Army Guy said:

No that is not what i said, but thanks for trying,  i said they would more in likely welcome US troops into the country, because they have done more for our troops than our government and people have. And let's be clear, if this ever played out into reality, it would be over before you rolled out of bed.

American troops would only come to free Canada from Chinese Communist infiltration & subjugation

Canada has already authorized American forces to enter & liberate Canada from hostile foreign powers

under the Continental Defense & Security Agreement

 

[Dougie93]

On 11/15/2022 at 4:08 PM, TreeBeard said:

Yes…. You think they’d commit treason.  I have a higher opinion of them than that.  

ordering Canadian soldiers to fight their American bothers in arms ?

I don't believe such an order would be obeyed

but the charge would not be treason

refusing to fight is not treason

rather that would fall under National Defence Act Code of Service Discipline Section 79 : Mutiny

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I've heard similar stories from others, and even some who didn't even serve in Afghanistan.  I don't think our soldiers are properly supported.  I don't think they have been for decades. I wish it would change and we made it more of a priority.  

As far as Afghanistan goes and what could have been done differently, I'll defer to you on that.  I just don't know much about it, other than how this seems to be another example of the region's 3000 years of history repeating itself.  

Nothing is going to change, until Canadian citizens demand it, and right now it's not even on their radar. 

Afghanistan is actually a nice country, and it's people are friendly, for the most part, war has made them Leary of outsiders, but they will invite you into their houses offer you something to drink and eat, regardless of how poor they are. Thats the biggest issue in Afghanistan how poor the country is and how corruption riddles the country. Thier tribal becasue it is a way to survive, in one of the Harshes environments in the world. 

[Dougie93]

On 11/16/2022 at 4:31 PM, Army Guy said:

The best person to answer all those questions would be someone that was one step back for it all, my version is going to be bias, as we all lost something in Afghanistan.

attempting to govern the Afghans by force of arms was obviously a fool's errand from the start

none the less, Canadian soldiers, outnumbered, surrounded, deep in the heartland of the Taliban

poorly equipped, effectively abandoned by their criminally negligent government to their fates 

going over the top, again & again, often unto certain death

for the brothers, for the regiment, for the colours

that is valour

and valour is all that matters in the end

[Army Guy]

47 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

attempting to govern the Afghans by force of arms was obviously a fool's errand from the start

none the less, Canadian soldiers, outnumbered, surrounded, deep in the heartland of the Taliban

poorly equipped, effectively abandoned by their criminally negligent government to their fates 

going over the top, again & again, often unto certain death

for the brothers, for the regiment, for the colours

that is valour

and valour is all that matters in the end

Thats is up for debate, was it worth all the grief we endured, i have to think so, i refuse to admit my good friends died over there for no good reason at all, their sacrifice was to the Afghanistan people, It had nothing to do with the Canadian people, they had forgotten us 2- or 3-years in.  It gave Aghanis 15 or more years Taliban free, an entire generation of girls got an education, major construction projects got done, like dams, paved highways, etc.

When i think of all the young men and women that did not come back or those that came back in pieces, or with shredded minds, that sacrificed everything they had, only to be forgotten at home, with public support cut off, we fought this conflict with both hands tied behind our backs. came home in taters our bodies used up, our equipment was in pieces being rebuilt on a constant basis, not enough of it to go around. Canadians just smiled like they were proud of what they made us go through. even the vets from Korea, WWII told us at the legions we were not vets, we were not welcome in the legions as vets, we were not at war, stop complaining. you beat a dog often enough and it becomes bitter. Our government treated us like shit, took away benefits to save a few dollars, and Canadians were good with it all. 

Canadians were tired of hearing about it in the media, claiming it was a waste of their tax dollars, tax dollars that could have been spent on them. when DND picked up the entire bill, it was our soldiers that suffered no money for new equipment, training etc... stuff that saves lives...

As for valor, it is only valuable when you're around your comrades, it gives you shit in the real world. 

 

[Dougie93]

34 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

As for valor, it is only valuable when you're around your comrades, it gives you shit in the real world.

professional soldiers of the Crown

who took the Queen's Schilling

displaying the highest standards,

duty, honour, courage

in the face of mortal peril

in the tradition of The Thin Red Line itself, at Balaclava

no greater glory

ducimus

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

 i have to think so, i refuse to admit my good friends died over there for no good reason at all

frankly, the mission was to uphold Canada's obligations under the Washington Treaty Article V

all tactical operations therein supporting that strategic objective

the armed forces went into harms way to defend Canada's national interests

so in fact, by definition,  it was mission accomplished

[Moonbox]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Nothing is going to change, until Canadian citizens demand it, and right now it's not even on their radar. 

Afghanistan is actually a nice country, and it's people are friendly, for the most part, war has made them Leary of outsiders, but they will invite you into their houses offer you something to drink and eat, regardless of how poor they are. Thats the biggest issue in Afghanistan how poor the country is and how corruption riddles the country. Thier tribal becasue it is a way to survive, in one of the Harshes environments in the world. 

I watched a documentary on Afghanistan the other day and it was talking about how the Afghans are totally screwed now.  Their economy and infrastructure depended on massive external aid, but now nobody wants to send money or resources to the Taliban, so men are literally selling organs to feed their kids.  It's sad to hear.  

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I watched a documentary on Afghanistan the other day and it was talking about how the Afghans are totally screwed now.  Their economy and infrastructure depended on massive external aid, but now nobody wants to send money or resources to the Taliban, so men are literally selling organs to feed their kids.  It's sad to hear.  

Things are going to get much worse before they get better, this is just the start.