A weak democracy is doomed

[cougar]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

If I started a thread and removed posts that were filled with insults, expletives and gay porn, would I be un-democratic or setting a standard for discourse?

Just to be clear, I don't support the idea, but also don't think you can judge how democratic someone is based on posts they might delete.  

The gay porn does not even qualify as a post !   

Insults, if the poster finds offensive, can removed as long as the poster leaves the more meaningful content intact.

I thought you knew what I had in mind.

 

But I will stop posting and reading this form until the offensive content has been removed and those created usernames are banned with measures put in place that this does not happen again.

I am not coming here to be seeing that type of thing and to be dodging "penises" in every thread!

Edited July 28, 2022 by cougar

[myata]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Saving thousands of jobs is hardly trivial.

C'mon we've been at so many times. Think of a long standing problem like... healthcare.. tuition.. drinking water whatever open your eyes and: it's in the state of permanent fixing. In Ottawa a newly build train suspended for the third time in not as many years despite who-knows-how-many-public-billions sunk. You can keep counting but I'm growing bored. Something is coming. Don't even count on a blissful ride for another two centuries. Two decades, who knows. Can't be sure.

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The Canadian response saved 60,000 Canadian  lives.

You could have shut the country down literally and saved half of that. While some countries achieved better results without any or almost shutdowns. This part of responsible management the opposite of crusading who cares about the cost escapes you very easily because: right, no feedback from the reality. Here's what you are doing: because there are no reality checks, you can take one factor by which you did relatively well, ignoring all the rest and pose it as a great achievement. China did that. Russia, can. And why wouldn't you? You can say anything. There are no checks.

[myata]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

This forum need a couple more moderators who can delete posts, ban users & their IPs. It also needs to be set so new members must reply to a few posts before they can post links, images or start new threads.

That would be democracy for us, not by us. And that will always be doomed. Bread and circuses!

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, myata said:

That would be democracy for us, not by us. And that will always be doomed. Bread and circuses!

There's also the tranny of the masses. Or something

[myata]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

There's also the tranny of the masses. Or something

As said, blissful ride never lasts.. in historical scales

[OftenWrong]

Just now, myata said:

As said, blissful ride never lasts.. in historical scales

I think I get that... yeah.

For all things there is a cycle. A beginning, an ending.

Perhaps the time has come for the west to decline. Even though it was the more advanced and enlightened empire amongst the others in the world (for a time), the time has ended.

But let's not get all anxious and down about it. Life shall go on, friends. It won't happen right away.

In the meantime, party on brother! All the goddam way down to hell!

[myata]

39 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

In the meantime, party on brother! All the goddam way down to hell!

Exactly. And not like we're discovering it here, "Cloud Atlas".

Edited July 29, 2022 by myata

[Nationalist]

15 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Saving thousands of jobs is hardly trivial.

The US suffered their worst catastrophe in their history with covid. The Canadian response saved 60,000 Canadian  lives. ( US 10 times larger) 

The Rona was the worst catastrophe in US history? Gee...dems some big chunks ur-a blowin'.

[ExFlyer]

14 hours ago, myata said:

That would be democracy for us, not by us. And that will always be doomed. Bread and circuses!

Democracy is "for us". Choosing it is "by us"

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The Rona was the worst catastrophe in US history? Gee...dems some big chunks ur-a blowin'.

Prior to covid, the worst catastrophe was the civil war with under 900,000 deaths. So far Covid has killed over 1,050,000 Americans.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Prior to covid, the worst catastrophe was the civil war with under 900,000 deaths. So far Covid has killed over 1,050,000 Americans.

But the Civil War deaths represent a much larger percentage of that population.  Also, I suspect that a significant proportion of those US Covid deaths were people with comorbidities and/or elderly.  It doesn’t diminish the value of the losses, but the cause of death isn’t exclusively Covid for many.

I also think that there’s a balance between risk and freedom that we haven’t found.  Americans take more risks, have more deaths, but enjoy more freedoms than most jurisdictions.  Many people would choose the freer country and accept the greater risk.  You’re at a much lower risk of getting Covid in China but I’d never want to live there.  

[cougar]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Prior to covid, the worst catastrophe was the civil war with under 900,000 deaths. So far Covid has killed over 1,050,000 Americans.

Except during the war the healthiest people died.  During the pandemic, it was the sickest, who were headed that way anyways.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Prior to covid, the worst catastrophe was the civil war with under 900,000 deaths. So far Covid has killed over 1,050,000 Americans.

Ya well...1M people did die. Apparently they had The Rona. But did The Rona kill them? No.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Ya well...1M people did die. Apparently they had The Rona. But did The Rona kill them? No.

Of course virtually every medical professional and virtually every politician in the world, as well as the families of those "non-covid" deaths are all in the same conspiracy. 

Have you people not even a hint of common sense?

Edited July 29, 2022 by dialamah

[Nationalist]

21 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Of course virtually every medical professional and virtually every politician in the world, as well as the families of those "non-covid" deaths are all in the same conspiracy. 

Have you people not even a hint of common sense?

Have you bothered to even check whether or not our national death rate spiked during The Rona? It progressed in the same arc. No spike. In fact it went down in 2019 and 2020. Nothing really out of the ordinary. 

A lot of people died during this fine bout of fear porn. Some of those died from The Rona. Many died for various reasons and having The Rona didn't help matters.

From what the stats tell us, The Rona was worrisome to the elderly. It took advantage of the really fat and the immune deficient as well. 

So we shut down the globe and stayed indoors, watching our world get turned upside down, for a man-made bug that...is invisible on the overall death rate. Oh goodie.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Nationalist

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Have you bothered to even check whether or not our national death rate spiked during The Rona?

Yes, and it did. 

 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2021028-eng.htm

 

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

we shut down the globe and stayed indoors, watching our world get turned upside down, for a man-made bug that...is hardly visible on the overall death rate. Oh goodie.

We saved lives.  Maybe even yours or someone you cared about.

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

lot of people died during this fine bout of fear porn. Some of those died from The Rona. Many died for various reasons and having The Rona didn't help matters.

From what the stats tell us, The Rona was worrisome to the elderly. It took advantage of the really fat and the immune deficient as well. 

Old people and fat people are also at risk if they get the flu or pneumonia.  If they die, we don't say they died because they were old or fat, we say they died from the flu or pneumonia.  Why are you applying a different standard for Covid.

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, and it did. 

 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2021028-eng.htm

 

From the first paragraph...

"the toll of the pandemic should account for both the direct and indirect effects of the virus."

here are the actual numbers...

 

DATE	VALUE	CHANGE, %
2020	7.8	0.67 %
2019	7.8	0.78 %
2018	7.7	0.89 %
2017	7.7	0.99 %
2016	7.6	1.04 %

 

See knoema.com

 

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Old people and fat people are also at risk if they get the flu or pneumonia.  If they die, we don't say they died because they were old or fat, we say they died from the flu or pneumonia.  Why are you applying a different standard for Covid.

I'm not. If an old or fat person gets pneumonia, that's serious. But we don't trash the globe for it, even though it's happening somewhere right now.

[myata]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Democracy is "for us". Choosing it is "by us"

"Choosing" is an ambiguous word. Sure you can choose an ice cream - if you have money and its available. But can you "choose" a democracy? Do you have such assurances about democracy? Who can and has given them to you?

The answer is simple of course. Who the democracy is working for? for you or itself? Can you get from it any answers, meaningful and true? Just look and make your choice.

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, myata said:

"Choosing" is an ambiguous word. Sure you can choose an ice cream - if you have money and its available. But can you "choose" a democracy? Do you have such assurances about democracy? Who can and has given them to you?

The answer is simple of course. Who the democracy is working for? for you or itself? Can you get from it any answers, meaningful and true? Just look and make your choice.

Yes we "choose"

A democracy is not singular, cannot be. It is everyone.

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I'm not. If an old or fat person gets pneumonia, that's serious. But we don't trash the globe for it, even though it's happening somewhere right now.

Yeah, you are.  You said:  Many died for various reasons and having The Rona didn't help matters.  When people who have the flu die, you don't say they died for "various reasons, and having the flu didn't help matters"; you say they died of pneumonia.  Just like you don't say that liver disease killed the alcoholic driver and the car accident that decapitated them didn't help.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by dialamah

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

From the first paragraph...

"the toll of the pandemic should account for both the direct and indirect effects of the virus."

here are the actual numbers...

 

DATE	VALUE	CHANGE, %
2020	7.8	0.67 %
2019	7.8	0.78 %
2018	7.7	0.89 %
2017	7.7	0.99 %
2016	7.6	1.04 %

 

See knoema.com

 

You must have missed the graph showing deaths from 2014 to 2022 and how deaths suddenly jumped in 2020 and 2021, and continue to be high at the beginning of 2022.

[myata]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

It is everyone.

Is it? Do you see it around? Does it respond to you? Can you get from it any answers? Why SNC jobs over independent justice? Why fixing for a generation forever? Why five shutdowns when some managed without one? Does it even notice you, not counting the ritual times? I mean real democracy in the reality, not just on paper. Putin can have that too.