The Opioid Toll that Alberta Tried to Hide

[herbie]

So that's why the rest of the country has never heard dick about the problems in Alberta. Kenny tried to pull a Trump and not report it so that 'it would just go away' like Covid....

https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/07/06/Alberta-Opioid-Toll-By-Neighbourhood/

[ExFlyer]

51 minutes ago, herbie said:

So that's why the rest of the country has never heard dick about the problems in Alberta. Kenny tried to pull a Trump and not report it so that 'it would just go away' like Covid....

https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/07/06/Alberta-Opioid-Toll-By-Neighbourhood/

Because Alberta's opiod problems are the same as those in other areas of Canada. No more, no less.

Odd or coincidentally though, that since the "safe injection" sites have been popping up all over Canada, so has the opiod deaths. Was making it easy and "safe" really a wise thing?

Trump and Kenny and whomever you wish to name have nothing to do with drug addiction and usage.

Edited July 11, 2022 by ExFlyer

[herbie]

for those who can't/won't read:

"In late 2020, as Boyle Street and other sites in the province were either being closed or not opened as planned, the Alberta government — without explanation — stopped publicly releasing neighbourhood-level maps produced quarterly by Alberta Health. "

That's what they have to do with it....

[Nationalist]

Ya wanna blame someone for the rising deaths from drugs?

Blame Biden and Trudeau.

Biden opened their southern border to anyone and anything.

Pixie-Dust will get down on his knees and blow any Chinese representative that crosses his path.

Both locked up almost the entire population because..."PEOPLE COULD DIIIEEE!!!" This destroyed countless businesses and lives...and for what?

I'll tell you who else shares the blame for this.

The fucking Tweenkies who supported and still support this asinine idea that The Rona was a real pandemic that threatened everyone. These dumb shits need to be laughed out of existence.

[herbie]

That's gotta be the dumbest response to the overdose problem I've heard since Nancy Reagan's "Just say NO" to drugs.

No insult from me necessary, that Covid comment is you being proud to proclaim that you're an ignoroid.

Edited July 12, 2022 by herbie

[ExFlyer]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Ya wanna blame someone for the rising deaths from drugs?

Blame Biden and Trudeau.

Biden opened their southern border to anyone and anything.

Pixie-Dust will get down on his knees and blow any Chinese representative that crosses his path.

Both locked up almost the entire population because..."PEOPLE COULD DIIIEEE!!!" This destroyed countless businesses and lives...and for what?

I'll tell you who else shares the blame for this.

The fucking Tweenkies who supported and still support this asinine idea that The Rona was a real pandemic that threatened everyone. These dumb shits need to be laughed out of existence.

Blame?

Blame the people that made using illegal drugs purchased from illegal drug dealers a safe thing to do with no consequences. Neither Trudeau or Biden or Trump or any federal politician has anything to do with it.  Blame Provincial and local politicians thinking they are doing a service by letting anyone do drugs.

Now, they are even talking about de-criminalizing it.

[herbie]

Well sane people eventually figure out that when what they've done for 90 years doesn't bloody work, it's time to try something else.

Should we still have Prohibition 100 years later too? Your Granpa could learn, why do so many people now simply refuse to learn?

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Blame?

Blame the people that made using illegal drugs purchased from illegal drug dealers a safe thing to do with no consequences. Neither Trudeau or Biden or Trump or any federal politician has anything to do with it.  Blame Provincial and local politicians thinking they are doing a service by letting anyone do drugs.

Now, they are even talking about de-criminalizing it.

Then too. In fact these ones need to be caged as enemies of mankind.

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, herbie said:

Well sane people eventually figure out that when what they've done for 90 years doesn't bloody work, it's time to try something else.

Should we still have Prohibition 100 years later too? Your Granpa could learn, why do so many people now simply refuse to learn?

What are you talking about???

[herbie]

Treating the addicts as criminals. Avoiding harm reduction measures and claiming it promotes drug use. The usual old fart knee jerk reactions.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Treating the addicts as criminals. Avoiding harm reduction measures and claiming it promotes drug use. The usual old fart knee jerk reactions.

Really?

Is drug use illegal?

Is selling drugs illegal?

Are they criminals doing criminal things or....?

Is allowing legal drug use from illegal drug sellers reducing harm or is it condoning drug use.

Fact is opiod deaths are up, waaay up. How much harm reduction is being done ?

No old fart knee jerk at all, just observing facts and even your comments. This is your thread and your complaint.

 

[herbie]

Observe. Pot was illegal until a few years ago. Selling it without a license is still illegal.

Possessing small amoujnts of other drugs is no longer prosecuted here in BC. if an agency sold them, it would be able to control the price and quality. Overdose deaths would go down. They're close to zero in safe injection sites.

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Is drug use illegal?

Tha law is the law ( oink, oink! ) is no counter argument, it's the problem.

[ExFlyer]

8 hours ago, herbie said:

Observe. Pot was illegal until a few years ago. Selling it without a license is still illegal.

Possessing small amoujnts of other drugs is no longer prosecuted here in BC. if an agency sold them, it would be able to control the price and quality. Overdose deaths would go down. They're close to zero in safe injection sites.

Tha law is the law ( oink, oink! ) is no counter argument, it's the problem.

Pot is legal but has it caused any deaths? And it certainly has not stopped illegal sales.

Well, the drugs are still illegal and there are record opiod overdoses and deaths. The law is not meant to be a counter argument, it is to state a fact. And are you saying if the government sells it to you it will get better??

How are your "harm reduction measures" doing??

[Michael Hardner]

On 7/12/2022 at 3:25 PM, ExFlyer said:

Blame?

Blame legal pharma companies like Perdue who pushed pill mills and created a gateway to heroin.

Blame a political system that allows the wealthy and powerful to purchase laws the way they bought indulgences from the Pope at the dawn of Corporations in Europe.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Blame legal pharma companies like Perdue who pushed pill mills and created a gateway to heroin.

Blame a political system that allows the wealthy and powerful to purchase laws the way they bought indulgences from the Pope at the dawn of Corporations in Europe.

I'm pretty sure in-camera lobbying of politicians is what facilitates the purchase of things like laws and indulgences.

I don't know how many people actually placed their faith in God to keep the Pope honest but I'm betting most of them were right-wing conservatives. 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Blame legal pharma companies like Perdue who pushed pill mills and created a gateway to heroin.

Blame a political system that allows the wealthy and powerful to purchase laws the way they bought indulgences from the Pope at the dawn of Corporations in Europe.

I am quite sure that the opiods on the illegal market are not made by big pharma. Yes, prescribed drugs have caused addictions but, the prescribed were and are useful. Abuse by doctors were a big part of the problem initially.  That is long gone now.

Thing is that the opiod problem now is that it is mixed  into other illegal drugs by the pushers.

Government does not pay opiod factories in China and other sources to bring them in.

[Michael Hardner]

45 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I am quite sure that the opiods on the illegal market are not made by big pharma.  

See 'Dopesick'

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Thing is that the opiod problem now is that it is mixed  into other illegal drugs by the pushers.

 

We are seeing the effects today of a demand created by those very pharmaceutical companies.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

We are seeing the effects today of a demand created by those very pharmaceutical companies.

I disagree.

The opiod crisis (overdoses and deaths) today is because it is easy and cheap to make and cheaper than pure heroin or cocaine so it is cut in by the dealers and associates..

Oh and, a lot has changed since the book Dopesick was written and published, let alone dramatized by a TV show.

Seems the only thing not affected by supply chain issues is importation of narcotic drugs.

Edited July 14, 2022 by ExFlyer

[herbie]

Some of it created by Pharma.

Most of it created by mental health problems - some people have addictive personalities, heroin, meth, alcohol. The small step of decriminalizing will remove the stigma and allow them to be treated as is alcoholism. A medical condition.

I lost my own son to an overdose late last year. In the last 25 years the only time he was straight was when he was in jail. He was always in jail for stealing shit to buy drugs. For years he could only find work close to the methadon clinic, pretty damn limiting. Couldn't bring him home as there's zero facilities or help up country.

Like many intravenous users (and they don't mention this) he stroked out. No one @ social services did their job and gave a shit, someone brought the drugs he OD'd on into the hospital.

Could've been your car he stole, your house he broke into, your store he robbed. Wouldn't it have been better if he could've got a prescription, made your burgers or framed your house and paid taxes?

I agree with you on many things. Slam the hammer down on the dealers and importers. Far too many are getting too light a sentence for bringing in fentanyl. Give em life w 25 years AFAIC

[RedDog]

We are being buried here by vagrants and homeless, most clearly addicts. Transit stations resemble unkept Hostels and walking down the street means running a gauntlet of begging - although they all seem able to afford booze, dope and cigarettes.

In the end, we are a society that can’t even keep drugs out of prisons. Sad. ?

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Some of it created by Pharma.

Most of it created by mental health problems - some people have addictive personalities, heroin, meth, alcohol. The small step of decriminalizing will remove the stigma and allow them to be treated as is alcoholism. A medical condition.

I lost my own son to an overdose late last year. In the last 25 years the only time he was straight was when he was in jail. He was always in jail for stealing shit to buy drugs. For years he could only find work close to the methadon clinic, pretty damn limiting. Couldn't bring him home as there's zero facilities or help up country.

Like many intravenous users (and they don't mention this) he stroked out. No one @ social services did their job and gave a shit, someone brought the drugs he OD'd on into the hospital.

Could've been your car he stole, your house he broke into, your store he robbed. Wouldn't it have been better if he could've got a prescription, made your burgers or framed your house and paid taxes?

I agree with you on many things. Slam the hammer down on the dealers and importers. Far too many are getting too light a sentence for bringing in fentanyl. Give em life w 25 years AFAIC

I am so sorry for your loss.

For sure pharma was primary cause for many addictions Perdue was closed by the charges against it for distribution and false records of oxy contin but, it is so far beyond that now..

I also agree we are not hard enough on dealers, they should be in jail for attempted murder but IMO, making it easier (safer) to take drugs does also not help.

Edited July 14, 2022 by ExFlyer

[herbie]

Your comment equating safer and easier isn't exactly correct.

I use the same reasoning as my Mom did, a 1948 nursing grad about abortion.

People have already made that personal decision (abortion/doing drugs), I do not agree with them at all, but acting to make it safe is the only proper thing to do.

[ExFlyer]

8 hours ago, herbie said:

Your comment equating safer and easier isn't exactly correct.

I use the same reasoning as my Mom did, a 1948 nursing grad about abortion.

People have already made that personal decision (abortion/doing drugs), I do not agree with them at all, but acting to make it safe is the only proper thing to do.

Why? In my opinion, making it safer and easier does contribute to more deaths because there is no or less consequence to doing it.

I am not sure about the abortion analogy..

On the other hand, the deaths are 100% to blame on the drug dealers as they lace the drugs with cheap fentynal and other opiods which are easily made in basements. Should we make it easier to take them and why is a safe place to inject helping? They still stay addicted and even can do it without recourse.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

safer and easier does contribute to more deaths because there is no or less consequence to doing it.

People who want to experiment with drugs are unlikely to be deterred by consequences in the moment.  Once addicted, consequences don't matter. 

I don't think harm reduction works well either, but also don't think harsh penalties work any better.