Canada Must Stop Funding Ukraine War

[myata]

50 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

you build a force which strikes the adversary missiles premptively

Shouldn't you also think about leaving them with empty hands and bare bottoms rather than giving them the trillions in carbon revenues and all the latest technologies in the name of holy profits and %% of GDP? Like, how smart is that?

Edited June 28, 2022 by myata

[WestCanMan]

51 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

for the scenario where countervalue deterrence breaks down

the nuclear option becomes what is called a counterforce

you build a force which strikes the adversary missiles premptively

with a global ballistic missile system to shoot down whatever missiles launch before you can take them out

We're always told that shooting down ballistic missiles is impossible but I don't see how that can still be the case. They've been around since the '60s. They've been able to detect their launches, and where they're headed, since at least the 80s. The US and Russia have lots of missiles that can shoot down satellites from sea-level. 

I get that an overwhelming number of ICBMs could be fired, but I still don't see how shooting some of them down mid-flight would be super-hard. Could the Israelis do it? Probably.

[myata]

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's all propaganda.

Maybe when Russia is kicked out of Ukraine, as a condition of no, not admission back to the normal world, only a small relaxation of sanctions, regular Russians will be required to visit cities and places destroyed by their so called "army" actually gangs of thugs in uniform and work on restoration to the original condition. It helped post Nazi Germans to figure out what was "propaganda". I would be way less hopeful about this case though.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Maybe when Russia is kicked out of Ukraine, as a condition of no, not admission back to the normal world, only a small relaxation of sanctions, regular Russians will be required to visit cities and places destroyed by their so called "army" actually gangs of thugs in uniform and work on restoration to the original condition. It helped post Nazi Germans to figure out what was "propaganda". I would be way less hopeful about this case though.

To be quite honest, it was Zelenski who put his citizens in this war in the first place, it was Zelenski who asked his citizens to fight against the Russians, and it's perfectly legal for Russian troops to fire back on anyone who shoots at them, no matter what type of building they are in. It's actually a war crime to take refuge in a hospital or similar building and fire at uniformed troops.  

This absolutely is Zelenski's war. Zelenski is the one who brought about the grievance which caused the war when he threatened to bring NATO troops to Russia's doorstep. Without that there would be no war. Zelenski even admitted that bringing in NATO was a step too far.

If you think that America would allow Canada to make similar overtures with Russia and China you're sadly mistaken.

We would absolutely be attacked by the United States, with bipartisan support in every level of government, if we were about to sign a pact with Russia/China/NoKo that had an Article 5 in it. They wouldn't wait for Chinese troops to get to their border. If you fired at uniformed American troops from your home, your home would become a legitimate target for whomever you fired upon and whatever other troops were in the region supporting them. And don't forget, it would be our threat of forming an alliance which was hostile to the US that caused that war.

Welcome to planet earth, the home of fuck around and find out.

I am constantly reminded of a show about death-row inmates, when a big gang leader in solitary there was saying things like "The new guys come in here acting like they own everything, they have to learn the rules!" It's kinda sad that it took a trip to death row for that guy to start learning about the importance of rules. That's Zelenski right now. His country is being flattened because he just wasn't smart enough to avoid war with Russia. 

Fuck Ukraine. Fuck Zelenski. They made their bed, now they are lying in it. 

[Army Guy]

18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

To be quite honest, it was Zelenski who put his citizens in this war in the first place, it was Zelenski who asked his citizens to fight against the Russians, and it's perfectly legal for Russian troops to fire back on anyone who shoots at them, no matter what type of building they are in. It's actually a war crime to take refuge in a hospital or similar building and fire at uniformed troops.  

This absolutely is Zelenski's war. Zelenski is the one who brought about the grievance which caused the war when he threatened to bring NATO troops to Russia's doorstep. Without that there would be no war. Zelenski even admitted that bringing in NATO was a step too far.

If you think that America would allow Canada to make similar overtures with Russia and China you're sadly mistaken.

We would absolutely be attacked by the United States, with bipartisan support in every level of government, if we were about to sign a pact with Russia/China/NoKo that had an Article 5 in it. They wouldn't wait for Chinese troops to get to their border. If you fired at uniformed American troops from your home, your home would become a legitimate target for whomever you fired upon and whatever other troops were in the region supporting them. And don't forget, it would be our threat of forming an alliance which was hostile to the US that caused that war.

Welcome to planet earth, the home of fuck around and find out.

I am constantly reminded of a show about death-row inmates, when a big gang leader in solitary there was saying things like "The new guys come in here acting like they own everything, they have to learn the rules!" It's kinda sad that it took a trip to death row for that guy to start learning about the importance of rules. That's Zelenski right now. His country is being flattened because he just wasn't smart enough to avoid war with Russia. 

Fuck Ukraine. Fuck Zelenski. They made their bed, now they are lying in it. 

I'm just getting into this topic, and from what i have read so far it does not follow your narrative do you have a source that lays your side of this topic out. 

Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

The Ukraine-Russia War in Simple Terms: What You Need to Know (rd.com)

Russia’s war in Ukraine: How it started and where it could lead | European Leadership Network

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I'm just getting into this topic, and from what i have read so far it does not follow your narrative do you have a source that lays your side of this topic out. 

Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

The Ukraine-Russia War in Simple Terms: What You Need to Know (rd.com)

Russia’s war in Ukraine: How it started and where it could lead | European Leadership Network

I just read the first article, it didn't even mention Ukraine's constant comments about 1) joining NATO:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership

or 2) the Azov's war crimes: https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/surrendering-azov-battalion-members-hailed-as-heroes-by-ukraine-military/

Quote

According to Ukraine, some 53 seriously wounded fighters had been transferred to a Russian-controlled medical facility with another 211 evacuated to another town also under Russian control. Russian claims are similar but do not match exactly in the numbers of soldiers they say are in each group. The International Red Cross is working to register all of them as prisoners of war.

Efforts were reportedly underway to negotiate prisoner swap deals.

However, some on the ground in Ukraine are reportedly saying that any such agreement must only take place once it has been established that an Azov Battalion member has not been involved in any of the crimes committed by Azov in the region since the 2014 Maidan coup.

Since the time of the coup, as many as 15,000 Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the East have been killed by Ukrainian military units, often under the command of the Azov Battalion.

Russian Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin said Wednesday that Azov Battalion members should be excluded from prisoner-of-war swaps and Russian officials said Thursday that they may hold war crimes trials if the situation warrants them.

I won't vouch for the source that I cited about the Azovs because literally no one is telling the truth about anything in 2022, but I've seen lots of references to the Azovs, their Naziism, and their war crimes. 

The thing about Zelenski is 100% legit though.

[myata]

Joining NATO to protect yourself against Russia-style psychos is somehow a major crime justifying an all-out aggression and a slew of war crimes. Sure, makes sense. Like how else would you know Russia's stooges, by what traits and symptoms?

[myata]

A psycho:

a) the world humiliated and offended me! b) so I can do to it whatever I like and c) the world will be to blame for my actions!

Russia: find one difference.

Edited June 29, 2022 by myata

[Dougie93]

21 hours ago, myata said:

Shouldn't you also think about leaving them with empty hands and bare bottoms rather than giving them the trillions in carbon revenues and all the latest technologies in the name of holy profits and %% of GDP? Like, how smart is that?

you didn't think about during the New World Order End of History since the fall of the Iron Curtain

it has been Interwar Years since 1991

nobody in the West has been preparing for a Second Cold War

this is an emerging situation, you are already on the back foot, caught off guard

but this will be a generational conflict, for at least a 20 year generation, plausibly longer

so it's not about what you can do right now, right now you are scrambling

at this point you have to project at least a decade ahead,

because that is how long it is going to take to reconfigure for Cold War Two

[myata]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

at this point you have to project at least a decade ahead,

And you know you have those decades because a maniac with a nuke button has just burned all bridges? Enviable confidence (or else...).

Edited June 29, 2022 by myata

[Dougie93]

44 minutes ago, myata said:

And you know you have those decades because a maniac with a nuke button has just burned all bridges? Enviable confidence (or else...).

I grew up in the Cold War, I am comfortable with uncertainty

 

[Dougie93]

furthermore, in the event of thermonuclear war, the vast majority of deaths will be in the large urban centres

New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal,  Vancouver

while the vast majority of the rural population would surivive

so conservatives should embrace thermonuclear war

it would literally get rid of the "Progressive" left overnight

[myata]

43 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it would literally get rid of the "Progressive" left overnight

Right. Probably only a coincidence. And good luck to us.

[Dougie93]

20 minutes ago, myata said:

Right. Probably only a coincidence. And good luck to us.

a thermonuclear war would rid us of the Russians, the Red Chinese & the Democrats, in one fell swoop

[Aristides]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

a thermonuclear war would rid us of the Russians, the Red Chinese & the Democrats, in one fell swoop

You wouldn’t be around to see it. Neither would any of us.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

You wouldn’t be around to see it. Neither would any of us.

oh no, it's very survivable now

this is not 1983, there is only a fraction of those warheads on alert now

the media vastly exaggerates the effects of nuclear weapons

so long as we are not in a major population centre, we'll survive

[Aristides]

19 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

oh no, it's very survivable now

this is not 1983, there is only a fraction of those warheads on alert now

the media vastly exaggerates the effects of nuclear weapons

so long as we are not in a major population centre, we'll survive

There are over 13,000 warheads, 90% of them Russian and American. MERV's carry up to 14 of them. Even the smallest SLBM warheads are 5 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb. Why do you think Republicans are bomb resistant and Democrats aren't?

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

There are over 13,000 warheads, 90% of them Russian and American.

that;s not the number of warheads on alert

that's the total stockpiles on both side

there's only 3,000 warheads or so on alert, due to the SALT treaties

[Dougie93]

17 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 Why do you think Republicans are bomb resistant and Democrats aren't?

only large cities are targeted with high yield countervalue warheads

people in fly over country are very likely to survive

while the coastal elites would be wiped out in their urbane cantonments

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I just read the first article, it didn't even mention Ukraine's constant comments about 1) joining NATO:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership

or 2) the Azov's war crimes: https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/surrendering-azov-battalion-members-hailed-as-heroes-by-ukraine-military/

I won't vouch for the source that I cited about the Azovs because literally no one is telling the truth about anything in 2022, but I've seen lots of references to the Azovs, their Naziism, and their war crimes. 

The thing about Zelenski is 100% legit though.

Maybe i am not following here, But at what point in time does Russia get to dictate to another nation what it can do and what it can not do.

If Russia had already seized large areas of my country, I would be seeking any and all means to protect what is left, and non of the Pro Russian countries are willing to assist, so where else does he go for assistance. NATO would be guaranteed protection if accepted. his next option is to be a member of the EU. To which Putin seems to be more agreeable..

AZOV Bn is or was 2500 people, out of a military strength of over 300,000. After Mariupol, it was decimated during the fighting or captured by Russian forces.

Azov Regiment - Wikipedia

Why would these 2500 people be an excuse to attack Ukraine? 

 

[myata]

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why would these 2500 people be an excuse to attack Ukraine? 

 

24 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

But at what point in time does Russia get to dictate to another nation what it can do and what it can not do.

Because... they would be in a big trouble finding any credible excuses? Because there are none? Because this is as blatantly and brutally unlawful aggression possibly ever? Because Hitler was more creative setting up the radio station episode as a pretext for his war? Many other reasons, sure. None of them would have anything to do with reasons or facts though. If Russia and her stooges had even a grain of that, none of this would have happened.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

 

AZOV Bn is or was 2500 people, out of a military strength of over 300,000. After Mariupol, it was decimated during the fighting or captured by Russian forces.

Azov Regiment - Wikipedia

Why would these 2500 people be an excuse to attack Ukraine? 

 

According to multiple sources, they're the ones who killed the 15,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbas in the years between 2014 and 2022. Or maybe they did the majority of the killing. Who knows what to believe?

 

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

According to multiple sources, they're the ones who killed the 15,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbas in the years between 2014 and 2022. Or maybe they did the majority of the killing. Who knows what to believe?

 

What sources?

[Aristides]

7 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I grew up in the Cold War, I am comfortable with uncertainty

 

So did I and only a fool would be comfortable.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

What sources?

I already posted one link. Look it up yourself.