Vaxx nazis strike again: MP not allowed at parliament over her vaxx status

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So, what do you suggest we do to prevent people from catching Covid 19? Even non-symptomatic cases can lead to long covid and organ damage.

Judging from a comparison of Canadian and American experiences, the Canadian response has saved 60,000 lives.,

You make no distinction between the pandemic up to Omicron and our current situation.  Vaccines mitigate Omicron but not to an extent that justifies mandates.  Quite simply, the combination of a relatively mild variant and widespread availability of vaccines to those who choose them is sufficient.  Mandates are an unnecessary extreme.  

[West]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You are correct.

You are aware that no one ever said that vaccination was a cure? The vaccinations were to prevent and/or reduce deaths.

With the vaccinations, covid became just as severe as a cold and that is tolerable and certainly not a trip to ICU and a death sentence.

Well they were so sure of it they were willing to destroy people's lives unless they took it. 

[West]

18 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So, what do you suggest we do to prevent people from catching Covid 19? Even non-symptomatic cases can lead to long covid and organ damage.

Judging from a comparison of Canadian and American experiences, the Canadian response has saved 60,000 lives.,

That's speculation. 

As for what I would've done, pretty much everything Sask did in the vaccine rollout up until the implementation of coercive mandates and demonization of the unvaccinated. I would've offered the first show of the vaccine to the elderly and those who are immonocompromised, then the general population. 

The mandates bred conspiracy theories imo. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by West

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, West said:

Well they were so sure of it they were willing to destroy people's lives unless they took it. 

Again, wrong.

They offered people the choice to take it or not. If they chose not to take it, then their movement was restricted, world wide.

Public health restrictions were for the entire public, not one individual person, world wide.

Those that chose not to vaccinate suffered the consequences of their actions and/or their beliefs world wide.

While I agree that Canada is slow in lifting the travel restrictions and being over cautions but COVID continues to morph and new variants seemingly are becoming tolerant to the vaccines. So, what do you do?

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

She doesn't have to get the vaccine but there are consequences if she doesn't. It's her problem if she thinks she is special and doesn't have to abide by the same rules as the other MP's are following.

No, government shouldn’t have the right to dictate behaviour to such a degree, not if we want Canada to be called a free country.  

[West]

11 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Again, wrong.

They offered people the choice to take it or not. If they chose not to take it, then their movement was restricted, world wide.

Public health restrictions were for the entire public, not one individual person, world wide.

Those that chose not to vaccinate suffered the consequences of their actions and/or their beliefs world wide.

While I agree that Canada is slow in lifting the travel restrictions and being over cautions but COVID continues to morph and new variants seemingly are becoming tolerant to the vaccines. So, what do you do?

No not wrong lol.. 

Where we differ is I see coerced vaccine mandates (holding one's job hostage, limiting one's ability to travel etc) as extremely unethical and discriminatory especially given that enough fully vaccinated are getting and spreading Covid to question the effectiveness and validity of the mandates. You obviously think coercion, manipulatiin and discrimination is an appropriate tool in gaining compliance

Edited June 6, 2022 by West

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, government shouldn’t have the right to dictate behaviour to such a degree, not if we want Canada to be called a free country.  

It is a free country, that's why she is free to not be vaccinated. She doesn't get to be free of consequences.

[myata]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 It’s about compliance with arbitrary government decree.  

Absolutely it is. For much of the country it's been close to a year after the full vaccination now. At this time there's very little protection even against old beta, delta etc variants. Only a stamp of compliance. A bad, bad precedent for the unstable future. And it was easy.

[Queenmandy85]

21 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

 

@Queenmandy85:

I understand your fear/concerns. I think everyone has them. But are they "reasonable"? For 3 solid years now, our leaders and media have been scaring the living hell out of most of the world's population. "PEOPLE COULD DIIIEEE!!!" And...some did. However...was the death toll over the last 3 years notably higher than previous years? Well...actually...no. It was not. So what did we actually accomplish? Did we save the world...or even curb the death rate? No. So what have we done?

Well...we destroyed a lot of small businesses. We created a lot of anxiety in the population. We pissed off a lot of people. We spend a TON of government funds and had to print more money which devalued our currency. We did that one real well. We chastised and shamed people for suggesting the Wuhan lab is the obvious place The Rona escaped from...ESPECIALLY when we recognize this bug is so easily transmitted from human to human. An exhibition of pure cowardice and stupidity, if there ever was one.

Did we actually help anyone? Perhaps...but its impossible to tell. And now...we have taught our kids that people are dirty. We've created a whole set of people who are so freaked out that they will wear a cloth mask while riding their bikes. And we have allowed our own government to firmly place its boot on all our throats. Which forces me to say...

"WE'RE SMAAARRRT."

You say "and some people did (die.)" No, over 6 million people died and counting. 

You talk about the financial cost of saving peoples lives. You can't compare money with life. You can always get more money, but you only have one life.

We chatized people for spreading the unproven and unlikely claim that Covid was created in a lab because it had no basis in fact. All the evidence points to a natural source, like every other pandemic in history. 

We now have evidence that the precautions we took to prevent catching Covid also work to protect ourselves from influenza. That is what we should be teaching kids. Things like washing your hands, social distancing wearing a mask and getting a flu shot work. During the first year of the pandemic, flu disappeared.

[Nationalist]

17 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You say "and some people did (die.)" No, over 6 million people died and counting. 

You talk about the financial cost of saving peoples lives. You can't compare money with life. You can always get more money, but you only have one life.

We chatized people for spreading the unproven and unlikely claim that Covid was created in a lab because it had no basis in fact. All the evidence points to a natural source, like every other pandemic in history. 

We now have evidence that the precautions we took to prevent catching Covid also work to protect ourselves from influenza. That is what we should be teaching kids. Things like washing your hands, social distancing wearing a mask and getting a flu shot work. During the first year of the pandemic, flu disappeared.

Just how many times do I have to show you people this?

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/death-rate

The global death rate since the beginning of this "pandemic" has hardly blinked.
That means, 6,000,000 would have died REGARDLESS of The Rona.

Yes. I have only 1 life, and I would really appreciate it if Pixie-Dust and his pack o' power-mad Jackals would stop shitting on it.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/24/emails-reveal-suspected-covid-leaked-from-a-wuhan-lab-then-censored-themselves/

That's just one. There is a whole slew of information that clearly shows the probability that The Rona is man-made and the the Wuhan lab was the originator. Stop lying. Nobody buys the bat theory anymore. Its an asinine cover-up for Fauci's own fucking crimes against humanity. And of course, for the un-holy Chinese money.

The flu was there...they simply called it Corona Virus. Teaching kids...to social distance...what a perfectly disgusting idea! Teaching kids to wear masks...again...a sick idea that has already created a generation of anxiety freaks.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Just keep your warped cowardly ideas away from kids, so thay can have a childhood and become proper, well rounded adults. Not scared little pee-ons who need their masks and don't touch them...you're dirty. Fucking sickening.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Nationalist

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

That means, 6,000,000 would have died REGARDLESS of The Rona.

You are actually claiming that the six million who died as a result of Covid would have died anyway?  

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

The flu was there...they simply called it Corona Virus.

No, the flu and coronavirus are different.  Just like colds and flu are different

 

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Teaching kids...to social distance...what a perfectly disgusting idea! Teaching kids to wear masks...again...a sick idea that has already created a generation of anxiety freaks.

Pretty sure that kids will quickly learn to get close and not wear masks as time goes on.  Even I notice that fewer people are wearing masks now than they were when restrictions were first lifted.

If you are concerned about kids living in fear, try doing something about climate change.  This concern kids a lot more than masks and social distancing.  And burying your head in the sand while encouraging kids to so the same isn't "help".

https://childmind.org/article/kids-and-climate-anxiety/

 

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Pretty sure that kids will quickly learn to get close and not wear masks as time goes on.  Even I notice that fewer people are wearing masks now than they were when restrictions were first lifted.

If you are concerned about kids living in fear, try doing something about climate change.  This concern kids a lot more than masks and social distancing.  And burying your head in the sand while encouraging kids to so the same isn't "help".

https://childmind.org/article/kids-and-climate-anxiety/

 

LOL...you're pretty sure are ya. Even when the NIH itself admits there's been many shitty psychological effects on our kids. But you've seem less masks on the street so...ya...there's that...

And maybe if you let kids be kids, instead of scaring the hell out of 'em with either "people dirty" or 'AHHH, WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!', they would be able to run and play and be friggin' KIDS again.

Gawd why do so many people wanna take a dump on children? Its bloody sickening!

[Nationalist]

18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You are actually claiming that the six million who died as a result of Covid would have died anyway?  

Yes essentially. Had The Rona not happened, 6,000,000 humans on Earth would still have died. What part of that is so hard to understand?

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, dialamah said:

No, the flu and coronavirus are different.  Just like colds and flu are different

 

LOL...I choose not to comment on this one, on the off-chance I insult someone.

[ExFlyer]

46 minutes ago, West said:

No not wrong lol.. 

Where we differ is I see coerced vaccine mandates (holding one's job hostage, limiting one's ability to travel etc) as extremely unethical and discriminatory especially given that enough fully vaccinated are getting and spreading Covid to question the effectiveness and validity of the mandates. You obviously think coercion, manipulatiin and discrimination is an appropriate tool in gaining compliance

Your claim of coercion is incorrect.

The government, federal, had a travel restriction but, that restriction made no difference as the entire world required  vaccinations so, even if the feds did not impose any travel restrictions, you had no place to go.

The government, provincial, had public health mandates and that is their responsibility. It was the ones that locked things down.

As for vaccination requirements to work, that was the realm of employers and their responsibility for the health of their employees. Many of those restrictions and requirements were supported and in some cases demanded, by unions.

There was no coercion as the restrictions were worldwide.

There was no manipulations as the restrictions were in many cases demanded bu employees and employers reacted.

There was no discrimination, you either chose to do it or not.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

It is a free country, that's why she is free to not be vaccinated. She doesn't get to be free of consequences.

Coercion isn’t freedom.  That’s why we don’t allow torture to be used as a means of gathering testimony in court.

You have a choice to commit mass murder too.  There are consequences.  See the ridiculousness?  Actually these are old conversations.

You take the position that public safety warrants making people get vaccinated using a mildly effective new vaccine against what has become a mild disease that is still transmissible by vaccinated people.  You think it’s fine for people who choose not to get vaccinated to be barred from trains, planes, and workplaces.  I think that’s a draconian, immoral, and arbitrary policy for any government to take.  That’s why most countries have dropped such requirements.  Canada is at the most restrictive end of major western countries in public health policies.  It’s sad and repellent.  

Edited June 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

LOL...you're pretty sure are ya. Even when the NIH itself admits there's been many shitty psychological effects on our kids. But you've seem less masks on the street so...ya...there's that...

And maybe if you let kids be kids, instead of scaring the hell out of 'em with either "people dirty" or 'AHHH, WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!', they would be able to run and play and be friggin' KIDS again.

Gawd why do so many people wanna take a dump on children? Its bloody sickening!

Maybe if you treated kids with the respect they deserve, rather than hiding behind a wall of "everything is fine", they'd be better prepared to face real life.  Unlike those who pretend killer viruses are nothing and climate change isn't real.

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

LOL...I choose not to comment on this one, on the off-chance I insult someone.

So you think all viruses are the same.  What a ... novel ... view.

[dialamah]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yes essentially. Had The Rona not happened, 6,000,000 humans on Earth would still have died. What part of that is so hard to understand?

The only reason experts are able to calculate how many died from Covid is because those deaths were above the norm.  Six millions more died than would have without Covid.  What's so hard for you to understand about that?

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The only reason experts are able to calculate how many died from Covid is because those deaths were above the norm.  Six millions more died than would have without Covid.  What's so hard for you to understand about that?

That’s a major fallacy.  Non-Covid deaths were way up last year.  Lockdowns caused delays of surgeries, destruction of businesses, and many fatalities related to scenarios of isolation, depression, and addiction.

Many people died who happened to have Covid where Covid wasn’t the leading cause.  Some people were asymptomatic and died of other ailments.  Once vaccines became widely available, the justification for lockdowns and mandatory masking ended.  Vaccine mandates were also revealed as overbearing and unnecessary with the advent of Omicron.  There are still some genuinely vulnerable who will need to be extra careful, yet they have sufficient protections for themselves that they can choose to use.  Some vulnerable people may prefer to roll the dice on their own health.  That’s always been a choice people can make.  Passive euthanasia has always been legal: saying you don’t want to be put on a respirator, for example.  People have “do not resuscitate” orders for themselves.

Medical discretion is paramount where possible. Exceptions require a high burden of justification.  There’s no such justification today for vaccine mandates, so almost all major western democracies have dropped them.  Canada is an exception.  Then again, I’m not sure Canada is fully democratic anymore.  It’s looking more and more like Cuba politically.  

Edited June 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Queenmandy85]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Once vaccines became widely available, the justification for lockdowns and mandatory masking, ended

That would only be true once everyone is vaccianted. 

 

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

here’s no such justification today for vaccine mandates, so almost all major western democracies have dropped them.  Canada is an exception.

And that is why Canada has had a better outcome than countries like the US and Sweden. The vaccines would have maintained their effectiveness if everyone was vaccinated. That is how we defeated smallpox and how we are going to eliminate polio.

The arguements that covid doesn't kill very many people and most people just had flu-like symptoms can also be said about polio. Yet nobody is saying we should not vaccinate against polio.

[Nationalist]

33 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Maybe if you treated kids with the respect they deserve, rather than hiding behind a wall of "everything is fine", they'd be better prepared to face real life.  Unlike those who pretend killer viruses are nothing and climate change isn't real.

Killer Viruses...she says while lecturing me about how to treat kids.

Have you any idea how many kids actually dies from you "killer virus"?

Get a friggin' grip on yourself.

[Nationalist]

33 minutes ago, dialamah said:

So you think all viruses are the same.  What a ... novel ... view.

No...I think you're a dope. satisfied?