War In Ukraine

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

OK.

Its not our war.

quite sure it is

as Canada is signatory to and founding member of

the United Kingdom United States Security Agreement ( FVEY )

the 1949 Washington Treaty ( NATO )

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

No doubt you would have been rooting for the US during the War of 1812 as well.

You know where you can shove your assumptions...don't you.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

quite sure it is

as Canada is signatory to and founding member of

the United Kingdom United States Security Agreement ( FVEY )

the 1949 Washington Treaty ( NATO )

Its not NATO's war either.

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

If that were the case they are doing a hell of a lot better than the Russians who were grabbed and put on the battle field.

Perhaps. Why should that be a concern for anyone but Russians?

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Its not NATO's war either.

of course it is

Russia is waging war against NATO, revanchist against for inciting the collapse of the Soviet Union

Vladimir Putin doesn't deny it, he openly states that as his casus belli

[Aristides]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You know where you can shove your assumptions...don't you.

Well, you seem to have no problem with countries who invade their neighbours.

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

of course it is

Russia is waging war against NATO, revanchist against for inciting the collapse of the Soviet Union

Vladimir Putin doesn't deny it, he openly states that as his casus belli

Hmmm...I hadn't heard that. So Putin attacked Ukraine...to get even with NATO?

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

If Russia were to invade Canada, they'd likely go through Alaska.

no

the Russian ballistic missile submarines invade Canada by way of the Arctic ocean under the ice

approach by stealth

into a first strike position against the Minuteman III's on the Great Plains from the Northwest Passage

the radioactive fallout from the counterforce then rains down on Canada after

it's not a land war in Eastern Europe

it's a sea war over the pole

and Canada is in no man's land between

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Well, you seem to have no problem with countries who invade their neighbours.

Your overly simplistic view is noted.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Hmmm...I hadn't heard that. So Putin attacked Ukraine...to get even with NATO?

the Russians attacked to get even with America

NATO is simply an American proxy

[Nationalist]

16 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

⬆️ Because, you resorted to low IQ language, not to a man's language, evidence will be provided.

Thank you @Moonbox. He provided this information, here, after I arrived:

So...is that a comment on the Ukrainian military? Or a comment on reality, plus a good helping of irony?

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Or a comment on reality, plus a good helping of irony?

I take the comment as rhetoric

freedom of thought, freedom of speech

freedom to hold a spectrum of views to include Isolationism

I just think it is misguided

deterrence requires operations overseas

to interdict the adversary at the earliest opportunity

 operations at the theatre level to prevent escalation to a strategic conflagration on the high seas

the strategy is called Containment

NATO Article V is the last line of the defence, not the first option

[Dougie93]

24 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So...is that a comment on the Ukrainian military?

at this juncture,  Russia is not yet the enemy

so far, Russia remains the adversary

if Russia crosses the threshold of the Article V line

then they are the enemy

that is World War Three on the spot

thus, Ukraine is our buffer zone

and the Ukrainian military is doing us great service therein

throwing themselves between us and the Russians

sacrificing themselves to contain the war within a buffer zone

they are dying so we don't have to fight

Henry Kissinger started out in the Realist camp

but now even Kissinger has said ; "Ukraine has earned the right to be in NATO"

I agree with Kissinger in this case

Ukraine has earned Article V protection, paid for in blood

Geroyim Slava

[Nationalist]

43 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I take the comment as rhetoric

freedom of thought, freedom of speech

freedom to hold a spectrum of views to include Isolationism

I just think it is misguided

deterrence requires operations overseas

to interdict the adversary at the earliest opportunity

 operations at the theatre level to prevent escalation to a strategic conflagration on the high seas

the strategy is called Containment

NATO Article V is the last line of the defence, not the first option

What do you think they are deterring?

[Nationalist]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

at this juncture,  Russia is not yet the enemy

so far, Russia remains the adversary

if Russia crosses the threshold of the Article V line

then they are the enemy

that is World War Three on the spot

thus, Ukraine is our buffer zone

and the Ukrainian military is doing us great service therein

throwing themselves between us and the Russians

sacrificing themselves to contain the war within a buffer zone

they are dying so we don't have to fight

Henry Kissinger started out in the Realist camp

but now even Kissinger has said ; "Ukraine has earned the right to be in NATO"

I agree with Kissinger in this case

Ukraine has earned Article V protection, paid for in blood

Geroyim Slava

I wonder what a Ukrainian would say to your assertion that they are doing us a great favour? Dying so we don't have to fight.

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

What do you think they are deterring?

a general Russian offensive against America through NATO by hybrid warfare

plausibly coordinated with actions by the Chinese in the Pacific theatre

the Ukrainians have broken the Russian military, crippling them

they are taking the hit for us, drawing the Russians into a quagmire, pinning the Russians down there

deterring China in the process, since Russia is China's proxy ; same type of military, same weaknesses

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I wonder what a Ukrainian would say to your assertion that they are doing us a great favour? Dying so we don't have to fight.

I have them right here

my neighbours are Russians

they grew up in the Soviet Union

they oppose Putin vehemently, say that he is a madman who will destroy Russia

they have taken in an Ukrainian family of refugees

so I speak to Ukrainians in real time

they say that they appreciate the support & admiration for their husband & father at the front

they say they are quite surprised that I know so much about it,  the history of the Rus

 Russians & Ukrainians hanging out on my deck together, drinking cocktails

[Nationalist]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

I have them right here

my neighbours are Russians

they grew up in the Soviet Union

they oppose Putin vehemently, say that he is a madman who will destroy Russia

they have taken in an Ukrainian family of refugees

so I speak to Ukrainians in real time

they say that they appreciate the support & admiration for their husband & father at the front

they say they are quite surprised that I know so much about it,  the history of the Rus

 Russians & Ukrainians hanging out on my deck together, drinking cocktails

And are they happy to have their military men and women dying for us?

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

And are they happy to have their military men and women dying for us?

they say they want to be part of Europe not Russia

they say they want to be allies to America, not Russia & China

they say it is worth fighting for

[Nationalist]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

they say they want to be part of Europe not Russia

they say they want to be allies to America, not Russia & China

they say it is worth fighting for

That isn't the question...is it.

Are they happy their people are suffering and dying...FOR US?

BTW...America and Europe will screw the Ukraine in the end. Their track record for doing so is long and storied. That's my "prediction".

[Dougie93]

Just now, Nationalist said:

That isn't the question...is it.

Are they happy their people are suffering and dying...FOR US?

nobody is happy to go to war

but so what ?

you question is irrelevant to the point

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

BTW...America and Europe will screw the Ukraine in the end. Their track record for doing so is long and storied. That's my "prediction".

well I'm not going to advocate for that

as I am a Neoconservative

Reagan Democrat

Cold Warrior

we won the First Cold War

we will win Cold War Two in the same fashion

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

nobody is happy to go to war

but so what ?

you question is irrelevant to the point

Oh but it IS quite relevant.

In fact, its one of the things I object to the most.

Using the Ukrainians, who are incredibly over matched and will become cannon fodder, so WE don't have to go fight the Russians ourselves. That's chickenshit.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Oh but it IS quite relevant.

In fact, its one of the things I object to the most.

Using the Ukrainians, who are incredibly over matched and will become cannon fodder, so WE don't have to go fight the Russians ourselves. That's chickenshit.

if NATO is forced to fight Russia, NATO will annihilate their conventional forces

at which point the Russians would have to fall back on their thermonuclear deterrent

that could be billions of people killed

these are the calculations being forced upon us by the Kremlin

I don't think NATO forces are cowardly in the slightest

we are actually saving the Russians from themselves here

by keeping NATO on the leash

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

if NATO is forced to fight Russia, NATO will annihilate their conventional forces

at which point the Russians would have to fall back on their thermonuclear deterrent

that could be billions of people killed

these are the calculations being forced upon us by the Kremlin

I don't think NATO forces are cowardly in the slightest

we are actually saving the Russians from themselves here

by keeping NATO on the leash

Huh...we live in different worlds...you and I.

To me...its chickenshit.