No longer a democracy

[West]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

If the Freedom Convoy was torturing mentally handicapped kids, burning churches and low-income housing units, assaulting and killing cops, looting stores, overrunning police stations, tearing down statues, and attacking/injuring police to get into 24 Sussex Dr (like BLM did at the Whitehouse) would Trudeau support them like he does BLM? 

I honestly don't think that Freedom Convoy types are interested in assaulting and killing innocent civilians and cops just to get on Trudeau's good side. Surely there has to be another way. 

What was it 50+ churches were torched last summer. Trudeau said it was understandable. 

A few kids jump in a bouncy castle and he calls in the military. Yeesh

[WestCanMan]

22 minutes ago, West said:

What was it 50+ churches were torched last summer. Trudeau said it was understandable. 

Was it really 50+? I thought that it was 2 or 3.

[myata]

3 hours ago, West said:

A few kids jump in a bouncy castle and he calls in the military.

Because he can. For close to two centuries the country sailed thoughtlessly and carelessly with a cheap copy of some parliamentary system somewhere far away in the hope that it'll be an eternal ticket to a better future. But look at it, the soiled and crumpled copy: what's where to limit or stop an aspiring dictator, someone who thinks he has all the truths for the society for as long as he is in the chair? Did you find it, anything there, after 200 years?

Edited February 16, 2022 by myata

[West]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Was it really 50+? I thought that it was 2 or 3.

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/vandalism-arson-burning-canada-church-catholic-residential-schools-11627584689

WSJ says at least 56. 

No hate crime or terrorism charges ever laid.

[myata]

32 minutes ago, West said:

No hate crime or terrorism charges ever laid.

But what do you want? It's the government now that decides right from wrong. It it has no controls, checks or limits. What else could one expect? Wouldn't it be like entirely unnatural?

[West]

Just now, myata said:

But what do you want? It's the government now that decides right from wrong. It it has no controls, checks or limits. What else could one expect? Wouldn't it be like entirely unnatural?

Trudeau supports the cause therefore burn away

[myata]

21 minutes ago, West said:

Trudeau supports the cause therefore burn away

I categorically insist that it's not just Trudeau. Every Liberal and NDP MP who voted for it are in it. PC obviously too. And those who didn't vote but didn't do anything either, given a grave danger of this precedent are complicit too. Courts that watched and did nothing, whatever rationalization or pretext. Media trying hard pretending that nothing extraordinary is happening with extraordinary powers. All of the club essentially. And of course all of use who push and support for it for whatever reasons. Few are innocent here. And not like the the future would make a distinction in any case.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, West said:

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/vandalism-arson-burning-canada-church-catholic-residential-schools-11627584689

WSJ says at least 56. 

No hate crime or terrorism charges ever laid.

WTF. Our gov't is a joke. 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, myata said:

I categorically insist that it's not just Trudeau. Every Liberal and NDP MP who voted for it are in it. PC obviously too. And those who didn't vote but didn't do anything either, given a grave danger of this precedent are complicit too. Courts that watched and did nothing, whatever rationalization or pretext. Media trying hard pretending that nothing extraordinary is happening with extraordinary powers. All of the club essentially. And of course all of use who push and support for it for whatever reasons. Few are innocent here. And not like the the future would make a distinction in any case.

This is what happens when government actively undermines national pride and makes Canada a dirty word.  Though we know that Canada may have the least oppressive history of any developed country, all of Canada’s prior achievements are painted with the brush of racism and colonialism.  We once had faith-based values underpinning mainstream values.  Now crucifixes are colonial and the religion of race identity politics drives policy.  It’s vapid, Marxist-Nihilist crap, but if you want to build a post-national totalitarian state where history is rewritten or simply banned and people can be controlled, this is the playbook.

We’re witnessing a Maoist cultural revolution under the moniker of equity.  It’s ultimately about the state deciding what people deserve and how they should live. Opposition to the state is labeled racist-extremist. Freedom is called radical and must be banned.  Who thought government could attempt this in benign Canada?   Yet here we are: digital vaccine passports, Emergency Measures, and no attempt by government to explain when draconian “public health” mandates will be lifted.  It’s left wing dictatorship, a simulacrum of China. Americans see it more clearly than we do because it’s been a slow moving removal of our constitutional rights to which we’ve become accustomed.  

Edited February 16, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

We once had faith-based values underpinning mainstream values.

This is important but it cannot be the only foundation of a vigorous and active democracy. Conventions, beliefs traditions and ideologies wane with time, and way of life. We need stronger foundations if we hope for it to last beyond the initial run. But did we ever care to think, design and build it?

Edited February 16, 2022 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, myata said:

This is important but it cannot be the only foundation of a vigorous and active democracy. Conventions, beliefs traditions and ideologies wane with time, and way of life. We need stronger foundations if we hope for it to last beyond the initial run. But did we ever care to think, design and build it?

Well that’s what the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was supposed to be about, a set of inviolable core principles, only they are being violated indefinitely. In fact, Trudeau has further decreased liberty beyond the mandates with the Emergency Measures.  Meanwhile our allies are lifting mandates and restrictions.  Canada is now retrograde and totalitarian.  

Edited February 16, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

In fact, Trudeau has further decreased liberty beyond the mandates with the Emergency Measures.  Meanwhile our allies are lifting mandates and restrictions.  Canada is now retrograde and totalitarian.  

That speaks to the fact and reality that any paper, declaration are just that, a dead object paper unless they are fulfilled by citizens, their attention, critical analysis of the events and readiness to act. Declarations do not substitute working mechanisms of oversight and control of citizens over the governments. It was quite obvious from the outset, but we wanted and decided to prove it on own experience. Sure, the evolution could only oblige.

In essence, at any time in any society the following is true: either citizens control and run their governments; or the governments begin running citizens. It's one or the other, and not much in between.

[Zeitgeist]

25 minutes ago, myata said:

That speaks to the fact and reality that any paper, declaration are just that, a dead object paper unless they are fulfilled by citizens, their attention, critical analysis of the events and readiness to act. Declarations do not substitute working mechanisms of oversight and control of citizens over the governments. It was quite obvious from the outset, but we wanted and decided to prove it on own experience. Sure, the evolution could only oblige.

In essence, at any time in any society the following is true: either citizens control and run their governments; or the governments begin running citizens. It's one or the other, and not much in between.

I’m losing faith in our Canadian system because all of this can happen.  I know the US isn’t as safe as Canada, but right now it’s certainly freer.  

[myata]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I know the US isn’t as safe as Canada, but right now it’s certainly freer.  

With all their faults they took time to construct their democracy consciously, with intent and purpose. This never happened here. All good times come to an end. Free rides too.

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, myata said:

With all their faults they took time to construct their democracy consciously, with intent and purpose. This never happened here. All good times come to an end. Free rides too.

Even in the Soviet Union you could go to a club and dance, and in its final stages you could openly bitch about the government.  Here we go out and sit in cubicles in masks, show our digital passports, and quietly go home.  There’s no meeting others and now political assembly can be shut down without justification.  Shitty place.  

[myata]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

There’s no meeting others and now political assembly can be shut down without justification.

Only a natural evolution. Only what we subscribed to and paid for. Fair is fair.

[Faramir]

Not to split hairs but Canada is a parliamentary form of government and not a pure democracy and thank God for that.  The draw back is that it does give a lot of power to the head of state.  And when you have clown shoes as PM, it feels lie tyranny.  

[Michael Hardner]

15 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

1. Except for social conservatives.  

2. Why are you pointing to citizens when it’s more accurate to say the apologies are by the government for past wrongs of other governments?

1. And people who believe racist conspiracy theories... like Convoy organizer  Pat King - who is on video talking about a plot against the Caucasian Race.
2. Because when Trudeau speaks for one of us he speaks for all of us dontcha know ?

Principles people... principles...

[myata]

10 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Not to split hairs but Canada is a parliamentary form of government

There are many parliamentary forms that do not end up with totally unlimited governments. But I think the experience worldwide shows that there are no guaranteed instruments and protectors. As soon as citizenship becomes passive and detached any form of democracy can begin to erode. Of course in Canada it's just easier and quicker as there are no oversights or controls none, whatsoever. As easy as just watch me.

[Faramir]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

There are many parliamentary forms that do not end up with totally unlimited governments. But I think the experience worldwide shows that there are no guaranteed instruments and protectors. As soon as citizenship becomes passive and detached any form of democracy can begin to erode. Of course in Canada it's just easier and quicker as there are no oversights or controls none, whatsoever. As easy as just watch me.

Apparently MPs in the UK have much more freedom to take positions that are contrary to their own party.  

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Apparently MPs in the UK have much more freedom to take positions that are contrary to their own party.  

A system as written on paper is nothing less than a carte-blanche for a majority and in this case, minority PM propped by spineless quasi-opposition to do pretty much whatever they like. They can pass any law and the courts would catch up somewhere in the distant future. They have some, other ways to control that power. We just copied and took the paper. And never bothered to read it and try to understand what it says.

[Faramir]

2 hours ago, myata said:

A system as written on paper is nothing less than a carte-blanche for a majority and in this case, minority PM propped by spineless quasi-opposition to do pretty much whatever they like. They can pass any law and the courts would catch up somewhere in the distant future. They have some, other ways to control that power. We just copied and took the paper. And never bothered to read it and try to understand what it says.

Good point.

[myata]

A democracy is not some formal attribute, constitution, elections, courts etc. A working democracy is most importantly, the ability of the citizens to control and limit their governments, always, at any time and whenever necessary. That's it. As soon as citizens can no longer do that, governments will begin encroaching on them, managing them instead of taking care of specific work they were assigned to do for the citizens. Only two options, really. And by this measure, it's very easy to gauge where Canada stands.

[myata]

Canada crossed the line from propaganda and intimidation to repressions. For those who only know how to dictate it's a natural resort when and if things wouldn't go their way. Democracy exists to prevent it. Very clearly democracy no longer exists in Canada. Empty elections is no democracy. Opinion polls under massive propaganda of fear and hatred have little to do with democracy. What else?

Edited February 18, 2022 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Canada crossed the line from propaganda and intimidation to repressions. For those who only know how to dictate it's a natural resort when and if things wouldn't go their way. Democracy exists to prevent it. Very clearly democracy no longer exists in Canada. Empty elections is no democracy. Opinion polls under massive propaganda of fear and hatred have little to do with democracy. What else?

It’s funny, living in Canada and watching internet feeds of non-Canadian state media reminds me of when I was living in Russia listening to Voice of America.  Canadians hear noise on Canadian media about disruptive blockades associated with extremists.  They watch selected snippets of the PM and a righteous new Ottawa police chief talk about restoring order to shut down “unlawful blockades” (that have already been cleared).  Most Canadians figure, yup they’re getting rid of the bad guys and switch back to watching the Olympics or prime time fluff.  This is how Canada has been quietly transformed into a dictatorship.  We’re living under unconstitutional policies and martial law, but just turn the channel or watch puppies on Tic Toc and all the troubles disappear.  

Edited February 18, 2022 by Zeitgeist