January 6, 2021 and The Big Lie

[suds]

Just out of curiosity I checked the 'Canada Elections Act' to see if there was anything pertaining to soliciting at polling stations....

Electors not to be impeded

142 An election officer who is assigned to the polling station shall ensure that every elector is admitted into the polling station and that the electors are not disturbed when they are in or near the polling station.

[eyeball]

I suppose it's possible an elector could be disturbed at the sight of another elector being given a drink of water.  Which brings to mind, what about holding someone's spot in line for a washroom break?

To be perfectly honest though I can't recall ever having to wait in line to vote.

Edited January 7, 2022 by eyeball

[suds]

My opinion about the US election is that there was a lot of funny stuff going on (all in the name of covid of course) but not to the extent that it would have changed the outcome.  My main concern was that unless some of the republican concerns were addressed, they would be used as some form of precedent for future elections. And regrettably, i was right.

[suds]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I suppose it's possible an elector could be disturbed at the sight of another elector being given a drink of water.  Which brings to mind, what about holding someone's spot in line for a washroom break?

I doubt anyone would complain about someone stepping out of line for a pee break.  I also doubt that the person standing ahead of you or behind would object to holding your place in line.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, suds said:

I doubt anyone would complain about someone stepping out of line for a pee break.  I also doubt that the person standing ahead of you or behind would object to holding your place in line.

If I give you a drink of water will you vote for my guy? If I hold your place in line will you vote for my guy?

One of these will be a crime in the next election why not both?  I suppose one might cancel out the other but on the other hand someone might feel obliged to vote twice out of gratitude.  Yup, the threat to democracy has never been graver.

I wonder if this fear around drinking water while lined up to vote is related to the fear that communists want to drain America of its precious bodily fluids?

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Over 50 court judgements found that Trump lost when they were presented with the same multiple examples you're giving me. How do you explain that?

 

But you were talking about theft.  You're saying theft isn't a crime?

I said nothing of the kind about theft. You have to stop this business of reimagining what you wish people had said and presenting it as what they did say even though they didn't. I know it's the "progressive" thing to do (you all do it) but normal people don't like it. Please stop that.

Here I'll explain it in a way you will understand - I think - because you said it above:

Quote

Like I said the way to properly rig an election is to legalize the rig. 

However, you were projecting to something you thought the Republicans did that you worried would rig future elections. That isn't what the Republicans did. Some republican legislators brought in rules to ensure safe,  fair, secure elections.

They brought in improved rules to plug the exploits the Democrats brought in during the 2020 pandemic election to rig the election. The 2020 election rig was done for the most part legally, but it created exploits that made it possible to rig that election and future ones if they weren't fixed.

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[suds]

20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

To be perfectly honest though I can't recall ever having to wait in line to vote.

I've only had to wait in advance polling.  Our system works beautifully, and i've never heard a single complaint.  But just wait.  Somebody (sure as hell) is going to decide there's just got to be a better way. 

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I said nothing of the kind about theft.

Well Trump and the Republicans have used the word steal about a zillion times now so I kind figured we were talking about theft. That's different from steal?

Quote

However, you were projecting to something you thought the Republicans did that you worried would rig future elections. That isn't what the Republicans did. Some republican legislators brought in rules to ensure safe,  fair, secure elections.

They brought in improved rules to plug the exploits the Democrats brought in during the 2020 pandemic election to rig the election. The 2020 election rig was done for the most part legally, but it created exploits that made it possible to rig that election and future ones if they weren't fixed.

So is this your 'rubber and glue' defence or the 'two wrongs make a right' strategy? 

Edited January 8, 2022 by eyeball

[Infidel Dog]

Again you produce what you wish I said, not what I actually said. Give that one up, Bud, it doesn't work.

I never mentioned "two wrongs." I was pretty clear in telling you I think what the Republicans did was correct. The new rules make future elections open to legitimate voters while making them less vulnerable to partisan manipulation. I only recognize one set of wrongs and those came from the Democrats and their supporters in 2020.

Oh and speaking of giving up, do give up on that water nonsense. The Georgia Law isn't about restricting water to voters in line. It says, and I quote myself from the 1st page:

Quote

Political advocates can't offer food, drink or other gifts to those waiting in line to vote in Georgia.

Poll workers however can make water available.

 

[BeaverFever]

The Big Lie fools nobody but the already converted true believers  

 

A year on and the Big Liars have failed to produce even a shred of evidence in any court or official venue in the nation despite have failed miserably in literally dozens and dozens of federal and state settings. What was the final tally of failed lawsuits?  60?  70?

And to simply call them failed is a gross understatement. In fact The Big Liars’ legal cases were so baseless and lacking of merit and basic legal work required that most of the main Big Liar lawyers involved face professional discipline, disbarment, and/or financial ruin. 
 

So now they continue to repeat their lies in the public sphere and try Biden in the media because they’re not under oath when they repeat their lies on social media, blogs and podcasts  And the dummies out there say “oh well they’re still talking about it so there must be something to it” when the real Republican strategy which they’ve used to great effect over the past several decades is simply if keep repeating a known lie it will eventually become the truth  

And the Trumptards still expect that Biden should be deposed and Trump made dictator, all based on vague non-specific claims of fraud that completely lack evidence. And we should also take their word that not was their fraud but that Trump won by such a margin that no recount is necessary, we should just crown Trump emperor based on his assurances that some day in the future all the evidence will magically appear after the fact. That’s not how democracy works. 
 

Thanks to Republican lies, the 2020 election was themlost scrutinized and audited election in history, most of the audits instigated by Republicans. AND STILL THEY FOUND NOTHING. 

 

Speaking of failed audits  remember the right-wing hackjobs the Cyber Ninjas, who Arizona Republicans hired to do a rigged we audit of Arizona ballots?  Yeah the ones who had absolutely no experience and no idea what they were doing, kept screwing up their numbers over and over?  You know the guys who formed a toxic cesspool of sexual harassment of  their own staff as Republicans are so often fond of doing?  I’m talking about the Republican crooks who went way over time and over budget and bilked taxpayers for millions in yet another Republican scam?  I’m sorry I know I’m not narrowing it down very much….I’m talking about the Republican liars who tried to prove the Big Lie but their  numbers in the end found BIDEN WON BY AN EVEN LARGER MARGIN in Arizona so instead they released a comical report full of factual errors, misunderstandings of how elections work, and of course baseless accusations and innuendo that their own work couldn’t find any evidence to support?  Yeah those guys!   Well it seems after bilking the taxpayers for tens of millions as Republican ties firms are so fond of doing, they’ve completely shut down and laid off all their staff after being found in contempt of court for not turning over the records of their sham audits 

 

Cyber Ninjas says it's 'shutting down' after Arizona judge fines it $50,000 a day in audit records fight

Cyber Ninjas, the Florida firm hired by Arizona Senate Republicans to conduct a partisan review of Maricopa County's 2020 ballots, said Thursday evening that it is not longer in business. "Cyber Ninjas is shutting down," company representative Rod Thompson told NBC News. "All employees have been let go," including CEO Doug Logan. 

But an Arizona judge who had just fined it $50,000 a day for noncompliance with an August order to turn over audit-related records to The Arizona Republic, wasn't having it. 

"The court is not going to accept the assertion that Cyber Ninjas is an empty shell and that no one is responsible for seeing that it complies," Maricopa Superior Court Judge Hannah told Cyber Ninjas lawyer Jack Wilenchik. He questioned the company's insolvency, citing millions in donations, and suggested it needn't cost much to comply with the records request. …

 

https://theweek.com/cyber-crime/1008725/cyber-ninjas-says-its-shutting-down-after-arizona-judge-fines-it-50000-a-day-in?amp

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

To be perfectly honest though I can't recall ever having to wait in line to vote.

That is a uniquely American problem designed to keep poor (read: black) people from voting.   Voting in the USA takes hours by design….unless you live in a rich/upper middle class area where there’s an abundance of conveniently located polling stations each with an ample supply if voting booths and the best/newest voting machines.  And it’s still a 1-2-hour ordeal.  Meanwhile in the poor parts of town where there’s one undersized station in a hard-to-access location and broken down voting machines are out of order, People who can’t afford to take  the whole day off work to endure stay home. 
 

I doubt anyone who’s committed to spending 2-4 hours plus travel time unpaid to vote is going to change their vote simply because they were given a sip of water or a pee break. 
 

Jusr more Republican idiotic lies 

Edited January 8, 2022 by BeaverFever

[Nationalist]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not on a scale that justifies the scope of changes to make voting more difficult that are being proposed and passed in Republican legislatures.  Not even close.

Well we've all read the changes and frankly, if you're really upset by them, then you're just being hyper-partisan or silly.

Or both.

[ironstone]

8 Times Left-Wing Protesters Assaulted Government Buildings (thefederalist.com)

Of course the events listed in the above link were covered much differently by the MSM but that's no surprise. Just how awful and openly biased is the MSM? The number 7 incident listed is interesting, a bombing by two radicals...who eventually had their sentences commuted by Bill Clinton.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Well we've all read the changes and frankly, if you're really upset by them, then you're just being hyper-partisan or silly.

Or both.

No it's because I don't particularly relish living next door to a super-power with an exceptionalist attitude a sense of manifest destiny and a crumbling democracy.  I guess that's something you'll file under the silly column but it is what it is.

As for hyper-partisanship how would you feel about international election scrutineers running America's elections - do you honestly believe electoral reform is possible at the hands of just one party?  I know I sure as hell don't.  The US is in a very dangerous place...and we live right next door.

[Jim jim4]

But Trump maybe return, I think he will do a good job but some of his fanatic audience is very dangerous like any fanatic audience.

[Nationalist]

53 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No it's because I don't particularly relish living next door to a super-power with an exceptionalist attitude a sense of manifest destiny and a crumbling democracy.  I guess that's something you'll file under the silly column but it is what it is.

As for hyper-partisanship how would you feel about international election scrutineers running America's elections - do you honestly believe electoral reform is possible at the hands of just one party?  I know I sure as hell don't.  The US is in a very dangerous place...and we live right next door.

No international body can interfere with a sovereign nation's elections.! 

I'm not afraid of Americans. You should like you are.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

No international body can interfere with a sovereign nation's elections.! 

That right, only exceptionalist super-powers with a manifest destiny are allowed to do that.

Meanwhile...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_monitoring

https://www.ndi.org/global-network-domestic-election-monitors

https://www.canadem.ca/democracy-elections

Quote

Over the last two decades, CANADEM has worked with the Government of Canada to send observers to monitor elections around the world. These short and long term observers deployed by CANADEM have played a crucial role in strengthening the democratic process globally. Canadian electoral observers participated in election observation missions at the Presidential, Parliamentary, Legislative and Municipal levels.

I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time until someone does suggest the US consider inviting in observers. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the US has on occasion already invited other nations in to observe their elections when trying to show others how to do democracy.

If some sort of official suggestion does land on America's desk I for one will be looking forward to all the indignant huffing and puffing over it when it does.  

Edited January 8, 2022 by eyeball

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I'm not afraid of Americans. You should like you are.

No, my brother is an American, I'm not afraid of him. I told you what I was concerned about and why.  My brother and his circle of friends and family are concerned too.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That right, only exceptionalist super-powers with a manifest destiny are allowed to do that.

Meanwhile...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_monitoring

https://www.ndi.org/global-network-domestic-election-monitors

https://www.canadem.ca/democracy-elections

I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time until someone does suggest the US consider inviting in observers. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the US has on occasion already invited other nations in to observe their elections when trying to show others how to do democracy.

If some sort of official suggestion does land on America's desk I for one will be looking forward to all the indignant huffing and puffing over it when it does.  

To have outside influence on an election is a bad idea IMO. It shows you can't handle the simple task of honesty. It also opens a new avenue for cheating...or at least casting a shadow over the election. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No, my brother is an American, I'm not afraid of him. I told you what I was concerned about and why.  My brother and his circle of friends and family are concerned too.

Huh...may I suggest you find threats where they really exist? China comes to mind...

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Huh...may I suggest you find threats where they really exist? China comes to mind...

China is on the other side of the planet, the US as I said is right next door. In the meantime you might want to check out the thoughts of what are very likely far more credentialled people than you or me.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/06/01/more-than-100-scholars-issue-warning-that-american-democracy-is-in-danger-call-for-federal-reforms/?sh=7c3790ae26f7

The world will be in a far less effective place when it comes to confronting China with the US behaving like it.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

China is on the other side of the planet, the US as I said is right next door. In the meantime you might want to check out the thoughts of what are very likely far more credentialled people than you or me.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/06/01/more-than-100-scholars-issue-warning-that-american-democracy-is-in-danger-call-for-federal-reforms/?sh=7c3790ae26f7

The world will be in a far less effective place when it comes to confronting China with the US behaving like it.

Look...we've all read the laws...which are an expansion of pre-Rona in pretty much all cases. If you need Forbes to make up your mind for you, or 100 signatories, then may I suggest you learn to form your own opinions on important matters, based on all the facts.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Look...we've all read the laws...which are an expansion of pre-Rona in pretty much all cases. If you need Forbes to make up your mind for you, or 100 signatories, then may I suggest you learn to form your own opinions on important matters, based on all the facts.

I'm quite certain I can do that better than anyone who believes they can get by solely on their own opinions about important matters and especially legal ones. The facts in this case include the reality that growing numbers of experts on the topic are increasingly feeling they need to weigh in on the issue of America's deeply troubled and increasingly dysfunctional democracy.

Let me guess you're a climate science expert too aren't you? Got every fact you'll ever need right up there eh? (Pats Nationalist on the head).

Edited January 9, 2022 by eyeball

[eyeball]

“If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”

David Frum

[Infidel Dog]

14 hours ago, ironstone said:

8 Times Left-Wing Protesters Assaulted Government Buildings (thefederalist.com)

Of course the events listed in the above link were covered much differently by the MSM but that's no surprise. Just how awful and openly biased is the MSM? The number 7 incident listed is interesting, a bombing by two radicals...who eventually had their sentences commuted by Bill Clinton.

I get a chuckle out of people who tell you they're independent while they pretend that none of those happened but they're all over Jan. 6. 

Then they post quotes from RINOs and infiltrators like David Frum, Andrew Sullivan or the Lincoln project like those tools of progdom have some sort of inside knowledge on Conservatives. Good for a laugh, anyway.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Infidel Dog