Did Ivermectin & Vitamins Stop the COVID Outbreak in Delhi?

[Aristides]

19 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

That’s an interesting Math question. What is the cost of vaccinating  the bulk of the population at $20 a shot or just treating the less than 1% of the people who end up in ICU? 
 

Of course treating them with ivermectin would be pennies and would most likely prevent them from seeing the ICU. Not me saying it…just 30 randomized controlled trials

ICU's stays for Covid average $50,000 each. You can vaccinate 2500 people for the cost of one ICU stay.

[Accountability Now]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

ICU's stays for Covid average $50,000 each. You can vaccinate 2500 people for the cost of one ICU stay.

If we assume your number is correct then you are forgetting one thing.  Your 50k is a cost we pay regardless whether it gets used or not. Its overhead that covers the cost of infrastructure, salaries, etc.  The vaccinations are extra costs and should be examined on a cost benefit nature. Getting rid of ICU is not an option. 

Of course, you continue to deflect from the point that the main feature of ivermectin is an outpatient treatment that is cheap. Even if it only works half the time then that is half of the ICU beds being used. Doesn't mean you have to stop vaccinations but rather use it in conjunction with vaccination. The other two approved and super expensive medications are in patient treatments only used once you are in a severe state in the hospital. 

 

 

[Infidel Dog]

Here's something else that's worth remembering:

"

People inoculated against Covid-19 are just as likely to spread the delta variant of the virus to contacts in their household as those who haven’t had shots, according to new research.

In a yearlong study of 621 people in the U.K. with mild Covid-19, scientists found that their peak viral load was similar regardless of vaccination status, according to a paper published Thursday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases medical journal. The analysis also found that 25% of vaccinated household contacts still contracted the disease from an index case, while 38% of those who hadn’t had shots became infected."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-28/getting-vaccinated-doesn-t-stop-people-from-spreading-delta

[Aristides]

19 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

If we assume your number is correct then you are forgetting one thing.  Your 50k is a cost we pay regardless whether it gets used or not. Its overhead that covers the cost of infrastructure, salaries, etc.  The vaccinations are extra costs and should be examined on a cost benefit nature. Getting rid of ICU is not an option. 

Of course, you continue to deflect from the point that the main feature of ivermectin is an outpatient treatment that is cheap. Even if it only works half the time then that is half of the ICU beds being used. Doesn't mean you have to stop vaccinations but rather use it in conjunction with vaccination. The other two approved and super expensive medications are in patient treatments only used once you are in a severe state in the hospital. 

 

 

So you don't care about all the non covid ICU cases and other treatments or surgeries that can't be accommodated because of Covid hospitalizations. Many ICU stations have been added to accommodate Covid patients but you just can't conjure up the highly trained people needed to staff them. How much overtime do you think is being paid to accommodate treating Covid patients? You don't think those cost the system and people who need those facilities? A thing that strikes me most about the willfully non vaccinated is their absolute lack of concern for anyone or anything else.

[Accountability Now]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So you don't care about all the non covid ICU cases and other treatments or surgeries that can't be accommodated because of Covid hospitalizations. 

Sure I do.  In Alberta 80% of the ICU trips made and 97% of deaths are people with co-morbidities. I have seen similar numbers in other areas too.  I have proclaimed numerous times that people with co-morbidities or elderly people should absolutely get the shot but a certain number will not.  There are also a small number of people who are young and without comorbidities that may end up in the ICU too. For all those people, offer ivermectin as it has shown enough promise 10 times over to reduce severity. Even if you remove half of these people from going to the ICU then you wouldn't be cancelling shit. 

If you truly did care about reducing ICU congestion then you'd do anything you could to reduce severity. But you don't and that's very indicative of your mind set. 

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

 Many ICU stations have been added to accommodate Covid patients but you just can't conjure up the highly trained people needed to staff them. How much overtime do you think is being paid to accommodate treating Covid patients? You don't think those cost the system and people who need those facilities? 

Those costs aren't 50k like you like to puff out your chest and proclaim. Staff are being redirected and beds are being moved around. That's what ICUs do all the time, this is no different. 

12 minutes ago, Aristides said:

A thing that strikes me most about the willfully non vaccinated is their absolute lack of concern for anyone or anything else.

If the vaccine works then the unvaccinated don't have to protect the vaccinated.  The only argument you have is about hospital and ICU levels being filled up by unvaccinated.  I already made my point above about the realistic way of reducing that.  Instead you choose to take the polarizing route which immediately makes it an us versus them approach.  Of course, just give it a few more months when this vaccine wears off and you start to see the percentages switch. 

[Aristides]

You reduce severity by getting vaccinated. That has been shown over and over again. I just shake my head at people who would rather gamble on treating severe symptoms over not getting them at all.

[Aristides]

31 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

 

Those costs aren't 50k like you like to puff out your chest and proclaim. Staff are being redirected and beds are being moved around. That's what ICUs do all the time, this is no different. 

If the vaccine works then the unvaccinated don't have to protect the vaccinated.  The only argument you have is about hospital and ICU levels being filled up by unvaccinated.  I already made my point above about the realistic way of reducing that.  Instead you choose to take the polarizing route which immediately makes it an us versus them approach.  Of course, just give it a few more months when this vaccine wears off and you start to see the percentages switch. 

They are $50K according to the BC health minister. I also posted a study done in 2006 regarding ICU costs at Japanese university hospitals which "realistic" put it at $1539 USD a day or $46170 USD per month, 15 years ago.

What do you mean my only argument is hospitals being filled up with the unvaccinated. It's the only issue, I no longer care about the fate of the willfully unvaccinated other than they become everyone else's problem when they get sick.

I also find your assertion that the medical community is deliberately ignoring treatments because of some giant conspiracy to be nothing but tin hat social media nonsense. 

[Boges]

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Theoretically the Merck pill uses the same/similar active ingredients as ivermectin. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-ivermectin-molnupiravir-idUSL1N2R32JP

Quote

 

Dr. Stephen Griffin, virologist and associate professor at the University of Leeds (here), told Reuters that molnupiravir is not repackaged ivermectin.

The two drugs have “dissimilar chemistry,” he said. “There is no way that Merck is doing this,” he said.

“Molnupiravir is a derivative of a nucleotide that, predictably, interferes with the RNA replication of the virus. While Ivermectin does also have a defined mechanism of action, BUT it’s against ion channels found in parasites,” Griffin said.

 

[Cannucklehead]

2 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Here's something else that's worth remembering:

"

People inoculated against Covid-19 are just as likely to spread the delta variant of the virus to contacts in their household as those who haven’t had shots, according to new research.

In a yearlong study of 621 people in the U.K. with mild Covid-19, scientists found that their peak viral load was similar regardless of vaccination status, according to a paper published Thursday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases medical journal. The analysis also found that 25% of vaccinated household contacts still contracted the disease from an index case, while 38% of those who hadn’t had shots became infected."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-28/getting-vaccinated-doesn-t-stop-people-from-spreading-delta

Seeing as you've just made the case to be vaccinated I won't argue it, but I'd like to add that an unvaccinated person can spread a more potent strain than a vaccinated one.  

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

You reduce severity by getting vaccinated. That has been shown over and over again. I just shake my head at people who would rather gamble on treating severe symptoms over not getting them at all.

You significantly reduce the severity and the odds of infection by exercising regularly and eating healthy.  I shake my head at people that would rather gamble with their unhealthy sedentary lifestyle instead of taking some responsibility for their own health.  Which not only would impact covid health but also various other illnesses and diseases.  But we live in a society where everyone wants to take the easy way.

[Accountability Now]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

They are $50K according to the BC health minister. I also posted a study done in 2006 regarding ICU costs at Japanese university hospitals which "realistic" put it at $1539 USD a day or $46170 USD per month, 15 years ago.

You don't understand finance, do you? Those are operating costs. It will cost the hospital that much if they are full or if they are empty. When they "add beds", all they are doing is moving around resources from non-ICU to ICU.  I will agree there may be some extra costs right now for OT or extra training however its not the values you are suggesting. 

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

What do you mean my only argument is hospitals being filled up with the unvaccinated. It's the only issue, 

That's why I said its the only argument. Are you having troubles with comprehension? 

 

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

I no longer care about the fate of the willfully unvaccinated

Do you also care about the willingly neglectful people who don't take care of their health and have made them targets for this virus?

 

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

I also find your assertion that the medical community is deliberately ignoring treatments because of some giant conspiracy to be nothing but tin hat social media nonsense. 

That's cool. You are allowed to believe what you want. But here you have a drug that is readily available, highly safe and has been touted by numerous doctors for its use with COVID. Why wouldn't you use it? If if doesn't work then you are no further behind. 

[Aristides]

44 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

You don't understand finance, do you? Those are operating costs. It will cost the hospital that much if they are full or if they are empty. When they "add beds", all they are doing is moving around resources from non-ICU to ICU.  I will agree there may be some extra costs right now for OT or extra training however its not the values you are suggesting. 

You don't seem to understand medicine. ICU requires specially qualified people that just don't drop out of trees. If you have to move people from non ICU to ICU, you will not only lose them from the system while they retrain, you will be robbing other parts of the system of personnel. The equipment required for ICU stations is very expensive and also an added cost for every bed added. Our health care system is under pressure in normal times, but you just blow off dealing with a pandemic as no biggie.

 

 

Quote

Do you also care about the willingly neglectful people who don't take care of their health and have made them targets for this virus?

Not if they refuse to get vaccinated.

Quote

That's cool. You are allowed to believe what you want. But here you have a drug that is readily available, highly safe and has been touted by numerous doctors for its use with COVID. Why wouldn't you use it? If if doesn't work then you are no further behind. 

What drug? You go on about the possible harm done by vaccines but aren't interested in the  consequences of using your pet remedies that haven't been through any kind of approval process for Covid use.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Aristides

[Aristides]

Side effects of Medical Ivermectin

[Accountability Now]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 ICU requires specially qualified people that just don't drop out of trees.

And you think they magically train these people by adding 50k for an ICU. I suggest you spend a little time researching before you comment. 

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 If you have to move people from non ICU to ICU, you will not only lose them from the system while they retrain, you will be robbing other parts of the system of personnel. 

Again....all resources they ALREADY HAVE. Hence...no added cost. 

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The equipment required for ICU stations is very expensive and also an added cost for every bed added.

Do you honestly think they buy new ICU stations every time there is a new person attending??? This equipment has been bought and paid for and is now considered a depreciating asset. It sits there and depreciates whether you use it or not. Stop conflating the issue of overhead versus cost overrun. 

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Our health care system is under pressure in normal times, but you just blow off dealing with a pandemic as no biggie.

Canada's health care system has been a mess WAY before COVID hit. You have union doctors, nurses and staff always fighting with the politicians about what they should be paid. I can assure you that here in Alberta, the vast majority of grievances you hear are part of the political fight against the UCP as they cut back their wages by 3% before the pandemic. The unions have used this difficult time to make sure everyone knows they are "under paid".  Do you not find it interesting that Alberta was in the state of a melt down as our 250 ICU capacity was at 100% and then magically they added beds and we were down to 80% capacity. No biggie!  I had read one time that Alberta's max ICU capacity is 450 beds which would put us at 10 beds per 100k. I also read that Ontario has 2300 beds which would put them at 17 beds per 100k. In the US the beds per 100k are around 30. 

 

15 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not if they refuse to get vaccinated.

So you don't get finance or health. Ok....gotcha. I love that you are so brainwashed on what CBC tells you. Don't worry dude....as long as you have the vaccine, you don't have to do anything else. 

16 minutes ago, Aristides said:

What drug? You go on about the possible harm done by vaccines but aren't interested in the  consequences of using your pet remedies that haven't been through any kind of approval process. 

Wow....you do know that Ivermectin has been administered over a billion times and won the 2015 Nobel Prize for uses in....wait for it...wait for it....HUMANS. Of course your comment on pet remedies is very telling about your narrative. Let me ask you this. Do you know anyone that uses insulin? If so, do you tell them they use that on animals too? 

[Accountability Now]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Side effects of Medical Ivermectin

Yup...billions of doses given. Proven safe.

[Cannucklehead]

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95333

 

?

[Aristides]

49 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Yup...billions of doses given. Proven safe.

For what? If you bother to read the article you will see that the side effects vary according to what is being treated. No  side effects for Covid are given because they haven't been properly documented.

[Aristides]

54 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

And you think they magically train these people by adding 50k for an ICU. I suggest you spend a little time researching before you comment. 

Again....all resources they ALREADY HAVE. Hence...no added cost. 

No I don't, they are just paying existing people time and a half and double time for overtime and working them into the ground. 

Quote

 

Do you honestly think they buy new ICU stations every time there is a new person attending??? This equipment has been bought and paid for and is now considered a depreciating asset. It sits there and depreciates whether you use it or not. Stop conflating the issue of overhead versus cost overrun. 

Canada's health care system has been a mess WAY before COVID hit. You have union doctors, nurses and staff always fighting with the politicians about what they should be paid. I can assure you that here in Alberta, the vast majority of grievances you hear are part of the political fight against the UCP as they cut back their wages by 3% before the pandemic. The unions have used this difficult time to make sure everyone knows they are "under paid".  Do you not find it interesting that Alberta was in the state of a melt down as our 250 ICU capacity was at 100% and then magically they added beds and we were down to 80% capacity. No biggie!  I had read one time that Alberta's max ICU capacity is 450 beds which would put us at 10 beds per 100k. I also read that Ontario has 2300 beds which would put them at 17 beds per 100k. In the US the beds per 100k are around 30. 

 

You complain about the system while you do your best to overload it. Nice.

Quote

 

So you don't get finance or health. Ok....gotcha. I love that you are so brainwashed on what CBC tells you. Don't worry dude....as long as you have the vaccine, you don't have to do anything else. 

 

 

Like I said. You don't give a shit about others who need the system

Quote

Wow....you do know that Ivermectin has been administered over a billion times and won the 2015 Nobel Prize for uses in....wait for it...wait for it....HUMANS. Of course your comment on pet remedies is very telling about your narrative. Let me ask you this. Do you know anyone that uses insulin? If so, do you tell them they use that on animals too? 

Not for Covid.

[Accountability Now]

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

For what? If you bother to read the article you will see that the side effects vary according to what is being treated. No  side effects for Covid are given because they haven't been properly documented.

For what? Seriously...are you that far behind in the conversation that you don't know what Ivermectin has been used for? 

Quote

There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people.

Quote

 

Ivermectin proved to be even more of a ‘Wonder drug’ in human health, improving the nutrition, general health and wellbeing of billions of people worldwide ever since it was first used to treat Onchocerciasis in humans in 1988. It proved ideal in many ways, being highly effective and broad-spectrum, safe, well tolerated and could be easily administered (a single, annual oral dose). It is used to treat a variety of internal nematode infections, including Onchocerciasis, Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, cutaneous larva migrans, filariases, Gnathostomiasis and Trichuriasis, as well as for oral treatment of ectoparasitic infections, such as Pediculosis (lice infestation) and scabies (mite infestation).¹⁴⁾ Ivermectin is the essential mainstay of two global disease elimination campaigns that should soon rid the world of two of its most disfiguring and devastating diseases, Onchocerciasis and Lymphatic filariasis, which blight the lives of billions of the poor and disadvantaged throughout the tropics. It is likely that, throughout the next decade, well over 200 million people will be taking the drug annually or semi-annually, via innovative globally-coordinated Mass Drug Administration (MDA) programmes. Indeed, the discovery, development and deployment of ivermectin, produced by an unprecedented partnership between the Private Sector pharmaceutical multinational Merck & Co. Inc., and the Public Sector Kitasato Institute in Tokyo, aided by an extraordinary coalition of multidisciplinary international partners and disease-affected communities, has been recognized by many experts and observers as one of the greatest medical accomplishments of the 20th century.¹⁵

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

[Accountability Now]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

No I don't, they are just paying existing people time and a half and double time for overtime and working them into the ground. 

So show those numbers. Don't lie about the rest. (Seriously...do I have to make all your arguments for you???)

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You complain about the system while you do your best to overload it. Nice.

I'm not overloading shit. I work out 6-7 days per week. I eat healthy and generally avoid things that are bad for me. COVID is a disease that largely affects people with cardiovascular issues.  The fact that I have been doing the RIGHT thing my whole life means nothing to you. Instead, you praise the people who take the jab as their easy way out even though they have done shit to enhance their health up to this point. 

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not for Covid.

30 randomized control trials would disagree with you. 

[Aristides]

19 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

So show those numbers. Don't lie about the rest. (Seriously...do I have to make all your arguments for you???)I

Anyone who doesn't think this is costing the system big time is an ignorant dolt. Scores of Covid patients have been air lifted from Northern Health to the lower mainland and Vancouver Island. Saskatchewan is airlifting Covid patients to Ontario That alone probably costs at least 20K per patient. And then they have to get them home if they recover.

 

Quote

I'm not overloading shit. I work out 6-7 days per week. I eat healthy and generally avoid things that are bad for me. COVID is a disease that largely affects people with cardiovascular issues.  The fact that I have been doing the RIGHT thing my whole life means nothing to you. Instead, you praise the people who take the jab as their easy way out even though they have done shit to enhance their health up to this point. 

Bully for you, so do I but I'm not stupid enough to think that makes me immune to a brand new virus. We have professional athletes who are long haulers. 

 

Quote

30 randomized control trials would disagree with you. 

So why haven't they applied for approval?

Edited October 30, 2021 by Aristides

[Accountability Now]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

That alone probably costs at least 20K per patient. 

That’s cute you think 20k is a lot. AHS spent 16 billion last year. They had 920 people on the Sunshine List for a total of 180 million dollars in annual salary. If you want to worry about dollars maybe start looking there 

[Infidel Dog]

5 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Seeing as you've just made the case to be vaccinated I won't argue it, but I'd like to add that an unvaccinated person can spread a more potent strain than a vaccinated one.  

The first point in is just plain nuts but I'd like to see how you justify the second.

[Accountability Now]

40 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Bully for you, so do I but I'm not stupid enough to think that makes me immune to a brand new virus. We have professional athletes who are long haulers. 

Bully for you? Are you 12? The last time I visited the hospital was after a flu shot when I was 23 years old. Also, I had Covid in March of 2020. I'm fine. Maybe its wise enough that I do me and you do you?

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

That’s cute you think 20k is a lot. AHS spent 16 billion last year. They had 920 people on the Sunshine List for a total of 180 million dollars in annual salary. If you want to worry about dollars maybe start looking there 

That was a low ball estimate to airlift someone 800 KM on a special equipped aircraft with a ICU doctor and nurse in attendance. But it could be 100K and you would care anyway.