Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[Winston]

If evidences shows that a fully vaccinated person has less symptoms, less sever infection, lower shedding, an argument could be made they could be transmitting the virus by more frequent social interactions. If evidences shows that an infected but unvaccinated person has more sever infection and higher shedding, they would be inclined to self isolate and seek testing.

If an infected vaccinated person does not show most symptoms and as a result is unaware of the infection, they may continue to interact with the public, causing further contamination and transmission. 

if an unvaccinated person shows most symptoms, they are more likely to get tested, self isolate and prevent public interaction. 

This would suggest a fully vaccinated person is likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person purely through social behavior.

Has this been addressed by the health organization?

[CITIZEN_2015]

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re really naive.  Trudeau, Ford, et al are just mouthpieces for a consensus within their parties about correct thinking.  Health Canada mostly follows CDC and WHO guidance. Those organizations don’t always get it right.  WHO is heavily influenced by China and multiple dictatorships.  It relies on their donations.

Wow we live in a dictatorship!!!! Wow China is ruling America and us too. I have been so naïve

[taxme]

1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

Speaking of things Citizen would prefer we didn't know I don't like this increasing pressure to push this experimental vaccine on kids. I don't see the reason for it and it could dangerous. Citizen would poo poo that and call it conspiracy but I remember hearing about something called Thalidomide. In fact I met a one-armed, one-legged guy one time years ago who was a thalidomide baby.

But Citizen says he likes numbers so I'd like to know if he wants to put parents who won't vaccinate their kids in a camp after reading this one below.

I don't even like the idea of masking kids. I've never been convinced masks work and the idea of choking kids with CO2, putting them behind bacteria-ridden salvia contaminated soaked cloth seems dumb. Especially since they don't work and are only being pushed by virtue-signaling, power-hounds.

 

The billionaire elite big pharma promoting globalists always keep trying to push their poisonous vaccines on children. There is hundreds of billions of bucks to be made from pushing their vaccine poisons on children, not to forget the hundreds of billions that they have made already from the many millions that have already took their experimental vaccines where many have now suffered and died after taking their shit vaccines. 

But I am pretty sure that there are those who will take the next covid booster jab. I have heard that some fools have already put their names in for their booster jab. There has to be something wrong with these mentally ill people who are willing to take all the covid jabs necessary to try and save their lives and getting covid over nothing. 

Masking kids is a crime against children and a crime against humanity. Sadly, our pro vaccine lying politicians and the lying media are going along with all of this madness and bull shit. There must be something in it for these buffoons to go along with this mask wearing and vaccine madness on our children. Parents who vaccinate their children are committing a terrible injustice on their children who do not need to take vaccines at all. It's a bloody shame and a crime to do so.  ?

[taxme]

8 minutes ago, Winston said:

If evidences shows that a fully vaccinated person has less symptoms, less sever infection, lower shedding, an argument could be made they could be transmitting the virus by more frequent social interactions. If evidences shows that an infected but unvaccinated person has more sever infection and higher shedding, they would be inclined to self isolate and seek testing.

If an infected vaccinated person does not show most symptoms and as a result is unaware of the infection, they may continue to interact with the public, causing further contamination and transmission. 

if an unvaccinated person shows most symptoms, they are more likely to get tested, self isolate and prevent public interaction. 

This would suggest a fully vaccinated person is likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person purely through social behavior.

Has this been addressed by the health organization?

If one does not show any signs of a fever or breathing problems, than chances are that they do not have covid or any other flu virus ailment. Many people were fooled into believing that they needed to get vaccinated, to not only protect themselves from getting covid, but that if they did not get vaccinated they would not be able to travel at all. No doubt the travel part had something to do with so many people wanting get the jab. Yet, there have been so many vaccinated people who are now ending up with covid. WTH? 

Will it be the vaccinated people who will be spreading the covid virus without knowing it? But of course the paid and bought off lying media journalists will always be trying to make it appear as though it is we the non vaccinated ones that is the problem and spreading covid. There is no proof of this at all. 

Nothing will get addressed by any health organizations because they are all pretty much in cahoots and getting support and money from big pharma. They will not bite the hand that feeds them. This whole covid bull shit is just that?  Bull shit. Sadly, the majority of stupid people out there will still go along with whatever their lying politicians, the lying media, and those so called health experts tell them to do. This covid bull shit can only end when people stop listening to those liars mentioned above and try to get back to their good old normal lives once again that was stolen from them. Only you can put out this covid fire. ?

[myata]

Inconsistencies: for the record, and we will see over the coming months (and/or years?!)

1. Repeated multiple times: vaccinated population transmit significantly less than non vaccinated. Emphasis on transmit, "viral load", "aerosol volume" etc are not exact indicators of transmission.

Problem: we're seeing multiples of last year's cases, with large part of population (close to 70%) fully vaccinated. Israel with large vaccinated population sees surge of cases as well. If the hypothesis was correct, it would mean that small part of non vaccinated population is responsible for majority of cases, that would translate to very high contagiousness of the current variant (up to and over an order of magnitude, i.e. 10 times of the 2020's). While higher contagiousness of delta has been reported, it's nowhere these levels, at least as far as I know.

Conclusion: the official hypothesis has weakness. We need to know correct and current rates of infectivity for both immunized and non-immunized population. That is possible only with wide testing and open, honest information that cannot be assured without independent oversight and audit.

2. Vaccinated population has much lower (very much) risk of serious Covid than unvaccinated (OP and repeated quotes)

Problem: with stated efficacy of vaccines, the risk of serious Covid for vaccinated should be reduced by an order of magnitude bringing it to the level of regular flu. Flu has been with us for decades; nobody closed venues and concerts because of the flu. There were never mandatory mask orders. If for the vaccinated the risk of Covid is comparable with flu why restrictions and mandatory policies are still here? When are they going away?

Conclusion: the official hypothesis in inconsistent with the policies. Either the risk for vaccinated is small and the restrictions need to be removed starting immediately (with the vaccinated part over 70%). Or there's some problem with the hypothesis. And again, the society needs access to current and reliable data.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Speaking of things Citizen would prefer we didn't know I don't like this increasing pressure to push this experimental vaccine on kids. I don't see the reason for it and it could be dangerous. Citizen would poo poo that and call it conspiracy but I remember hearing about something called Thalidomide. In fact I met a one-armed, one-legged guy one time years ago who was a thalidomide baby.

But Citizen says he likes numbers so I'd like to know if he wants to put parents who won't vaccinate their kids in a camp after reading this one below.

I don't even like the idea of masking kids. I've never been convinced masks work and the idea of choking kids with CO2, putting them behind bacteria-ridden salvia contaminated soaked cloth seems dumb. Especially since they don't work and are only being pushed by virtue-signaling, power-hounds.

 

Given those stats there’s no justification for restrictions of any kind.  Adults can restrict themselves if they feel unsafe and if the risk of death for kids is lower than the flu, it’s time to call it a day on the pandemic.  End all restrictions immediately.  Are people that stupid?

Edited August 15, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Speaking of things Citizen would prefer we didn't know I don't like this increasing pressure to push this experimental vaccine on kids. I don't see the reason for it and it could be dangerous. Citizen would poo poo that and call it conspiracy but I remember hearing about something called Thalidomide. In fact I met a one-armed, one-legged guy one time years ago who was a thalidomide baby.

But Citizen says he likes numbers so I'd like to know if he wants to put parents who won't vaccinate their kids in a camp after reading this one below.

 

I don't even like the idea of masking kids. I've never been convinced masks work and the idea of choking kids with CO2, putting them behind bacteria-ridden salvia contaminated soaked cloth seems dumb. Especially since they don't work and are only being pushed by virtue-signaling, power-hounds.

 

Another lie. I never said anything about kids being vaccinated. I have been encouraging eligible people (those over 12) to be vaccinated. The vaccines are currently under investigation if they are safe or not for those under 12 so nobody even suggested that.

[Argus]

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, Winston said:

If evidences shows that a fully vaccinated person has less symptoms, less sever infection, lower shedding, an argument could be made they could be transmitting the virus by more frequent social interactions. If evidences shows that an infected but unvaccinated person has more sever infection and higher shedding, they would be inclined to self isolate and seek testing.

If an infected vaccinated person does not show most symptoms and as a result is unaware of the infection, they may continue to interact with the public, causing further contamination and transmission. 

if an unvaccinated person shows most symptoms, they are more likely to get tested, self isolate and prevent public interaction. 

This would suggest a fully vaccinated person is likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person purely through social behavior.

Has this been addressed by the health organization?

I'm only guessing here, as i'm not a medical professional . regardless of who is vaccinated or not, both sides can catch the virus, and not show all the symptoms or even get sick,  and they will transmit to anyone else.

both sides are going to get  sick, one side will have a greater chance of requiring hospitalization, and one will probably not require hospitalization.  Getting the shot is not the end all be all, some people have died of covid while already having the shot... But their numbers are quit small as compared to the unvaccinated. the whole objective here is not to cure the virus but ensure our hospitals are not over whelmed... 

If they are not going to get the vaccination what makes you think they are going to get tested when they are feeling sick...what i see is they are going to get so sick they are going to seek medical help, and they will do a test to confirm what they already know. Jack ass is really sick, should have got the shot...they will ask do you want the shot... and most likely get it...

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Excellent summary of most recent data solidly proving the effectiveness of vaccines.

[Infidel Dog]

Now unpuff your chest and read this one:

 

[Infidel Dog]

Almost passable English for a spammer. Good try on that one, anyway. Not sure what you're talking about but I bet it's marvelous. Shall I go get some gift cards to pay you? Aren't you worried they're going to miss you over at the call center?

[Infidel Dog]

Not sure if I understand the below but it sounds like if you're a woman you really want to think twice about getting the vaccine. Actually this idea of training the antibodies to attack the body's own cells is just scary in general. Is he saying that could get passed on generationally? Sounds like he is.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[myata]

9 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Excellent summary of most recent data solidly proving the effectiveness of vaccines.

We have to trust (not only) daily information manna from above but also intelligence, reason and common sense. If vaccines are so effective then for the vaccinated, the risk of serious illness is on the level of flu. And if it's on the level of flu, the mandatory restrictions must be coming down, all of them.

When are they coming down? Why was there a concert, hoopla and outcry when entirely logical (based on claimed evidence) suggestion was made for (all of them) to come down?

[CITIZEN_2015]

40 minutes ago, myata said:

We have to trust (not only) daily information manna from above but also intelligence, reason and common sense. If vaccines are so effective then for the vaccinated, the risk of serious illness is on the level of flu. And if it's on the level of flu, the mandatory restrictions must be coming down, all of them.

When are they coming down? Why was there a concert, hoopla and outcry when entirely logical (based on claimed evidence) suggestion was made for (all of them) to come down?

almost 20% of adult population yet not vaccinated. They are still at risk of sever sickness or dying.

[myata]

14 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

almost 20% of adult population yet not vaccinated. They are still at risk of sever sickness or dying.

OK we're down to bull, avoiding answering clear and obvious question. How original, like it never happened before.

Let's make everyone wear a mask 24/7 because someone is chain smoking and they're still at risk blah blah muzak.

Edited August 16, 2021 by myata

[CITIZEN_2015]

13 minutes ago, myata said:

OK we're down to bull, avoiding answering clear and obvious question. How original, like it never happened before.

I answered your question but maybe some level of intelligence is required to understand it. You said if vaccines are effective why we still have mandatory restrictions and i said because there are still a segment of population who are vulnerable.

Edited August 16, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[myata]

OK here's the real problem. There's a part of population how large I've no idea that would buy any justification for pretty much anything as long as its coming from the government, with little to no evidence and reason-based explanation.

Question: is it, such attitude compatible with democracy, in the short and medium perspective? What if we have already arrived?

[myata]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I answered your question but maybe some level of intelligence is required to understand it. You said if vaccines are effective why we still have mandatory restrictions and i said because there are still a segment of population who are vulnerable.

You did not answer anything, or answered it in your own mind. Since when a higher risk to a small minority (yes one can die from obesity-related illnesses in case you wouldn't know), based on its own conscious choice justified blank and uniform restrictions imposed on everybody? When did it happen last time in a free country?

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I answered your question but maybe some level of intelligence is required to understand it. You said if vaccines are effective why we still have mandatory restrictions and i said because there are still some who are vulnerable.

So what?  We’ve always had immun-compromised people who have to be extra careful.  You can’t defend restrictions on behaviour for death rates lower than the flu for children and all age groups who are eligible for the vaccine, as vaccination provides ample protection and not getting the vaccine is a choice people don’t have to make. Am I going to stop people from walking near roads because they might run out in front of traffic?   Why not close subways because people might jump in front of subway cars?  It just pisses me off that our freedoms are curtailed for the sake of misinformed people and their misplaced fears.  Governments should be explaining the facts and running information campaigns to return society to normal, but clearly they contain the same dummies.  

Edited August 16, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So what?  We’ve always had immun-compromised people who have to be extra careful. 

That was already clearly beyond logical discussion. Just needed to say something as an appearance of ... saying something. Like "travel from Wuhan". Like it's any news or surprise.

[CITIZEN_2015]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So what?  We’ve always had immun-compromised people who have to be extra careful.  You can’t defend restrictions on behaviour for death rates lower than the flu for children and all age groups who are eligible for the vaccine, as vaccination provides ample protection and not getting the vaccine is a choice people don’t have to make. Am I going to stop people from walking near roads because they might run out in front of traffic?   Why not close subways because people might jump in front of subway cars?  It just pisses me off that our freedoms are curtailed for the sake of misinformed people and their misplaced fears.  Governments should be explaining the facts and running information campaigns to return society to normal, but clearly they contain the same dummies.  

We are talking about 6 million adults in Canada. Not small minority. Also I do know vaccines provide ample protection however, I am not sure the risk of sever illness and death for vaccinated people as is low as flu. I have no statistic for comparison. I do agree we should not impose any more restrictions or future lockdowns as the choice was made and 6 million decided not to take vaccines and i don't wish to pay the price for that.

[Zeitgeist]

If the restrictions persist I think we may need to divide society into the ignorant and well-informed.   The ignorant can hide and live in fear according to fascist dictates.  The well-informed can live free normal lives.   

[CITIZEN_2015]

Another solid indicator that vaccines are effective.

Yesterday and today over a thousand new Covid infections in Ontario but NO NEW DEATHS in two days. Maybe the province can give the 3 million Ontarians another two weeks to get the vaccine and should lift all restrictions as of September.

[myata]

If vaccines are effective, when are blank and uniform restrictions on Canadians are coming down? Maybe and should is not the right answer, in a democracy.