Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, Dougie93 said: 1. it's a secular religion, Communism is the secular Heaven which is achieved someday, by the World Socialist Revolution 2. if the World Socialist Revolution were achieved, ostensibly there would be no more need for countries at all 3. Communism is a post scarcity utopia, you don't need countries anymore at that point, it's a one world government 1. That's an interesting metaphor, but using a metaphor like that rather than a hard definition makes it hard to define where capitalism ends and where Communism starts. 2. Yes I think that's in the original text. 3. It doesn't have to be post scarcity either. Lots of countries used it, to varying levels of success, to deal with periods of deprivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: McLuhan's Laws of Media apply here. The new media make obsolete "the press", retrieve the "town hall", enhance "rhetoric", and reverses into anarchy. this is the Marshall McLuhan World War Three in progress right now "the guerrilla information war with no distinction between military and civilian" the media has been entirely weaponized for this purpose the establishment media fighting in the side of the ancien regime Edited May 25, 2021 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, Dougie93 said: 1. this is the Marshall McLuhan World War Three in progress right now 2. "the guerrilla information war with no distinction between military and civilian" the media has been entirely militarized for this purpose, the establishment media fighting in the side of the ancien regime 1. I would say post-1964 is the McLuhan world as the speed of change made the topic of media criticism obvious enough to be fathomed by the public. 2. Interesting again. I think that the establishment media is, in fact, fighting for its own life and "countries" are fighting the media war on the cyber front. Communist countries have an advantage, in that they lock down information from coming in. Canada is now trying to do this, to get that advantage... so that is one way we are at risk to become Communist. They also have a disadvantage - in that their people want access to world money, world media, and world markets. I'm not sure how China manages to succeed without a culture of dissent. It may explain why they haven't produced anything original enough to entice Western markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. That's an interesting metaphor, but using a metaphor like that rather than a hard definition makes it hard to define where capitalism ends and where Communism starts. the difference is Stalinism Stalin was the one who put the World Socialist Revolution down, it was Stalin who killed the Bolsheviks off instead of a World Socialist Revolution, Stalin imposed Socialism In One Country in that paradigm, it is entirely viable to work with international capital, so long as that is propping up Socialism in One Country this is where China is now, this is why and how Xi Jinping is a Stalinist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I would say post-1964 is the McLuhan world as the speed of change made the topic of media criticism obvious enough to be fathomed by the public. 2. Interesting again. I think that the establishment media is, in fact, fighting for its own life and "countries" are fighting the media war on the cyber front. Communist countries have an advantage, in that they lock down information from coming in. Canada is now trying to do this, to get that advantage... so that is one way we are at risk to become Communist. They also have a disadvantage - in that their people want access to world money, world media, and world markets. I'm not sure how China manages to succeed without a culture of dissent. It may explain why they haven't produced anything original enough to entice Western markets. it's not that Canada is Communist, Canada is still the only Confederation of the British Empire the issue is that this Confederation is weak & unstable and always was so it simply cannot take the pounding of an unrestricted information war this is why Canadians do not abide boat rockers, because if you rock the boat in Canada, you can sink it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: 1. it's not that Canada is Communist, Canada is still the only Confederation of the British Empire 2. the issue is that this Confederation is weak & unstable and always was 3. so it simply cannot take the pounding of an unrestricted information war 4. this is why Canadians do not abide boat rockers, because if you rock the boat in Canada, you can sink it 1. The topic is... "is Canada BECOMING Communist" ? If there were ever a country in history to consider becoming Communist and staying Royalist, then it's this one. 2. Not only is that arguable but it is also off topic. I would say it's pretty tough to find countries more stable than Canada. 3. The U.S. is more at war with itself than we are, IMO, and they aren't falling yet either nor are they becoming Communist. 4. And yet we are weak & unstable ? Forgive me for not following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: The U.S. is more at war with itself than we are, IMO, and they aren't falling yet either nor are they becoming Communist America is better able to take the pounding Canada cannot take the pounding America has a jaw of steel Canada has a glass jaw America was invented in the forge of information warfare and can reinvent itself therein Canada was invented to try and keep the information warfare out and is failing miserably at it America revels in the infowar, totally at home in it Canada recoils from the infowar, totally lost in it Edited May 25, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: Forgive me for not following. all is forgiven, I seek no followers, come & go as you please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: America is better able to take the pounding Canada cannot take the pounding America has a jaw of steel Canada has a glass jaw America was invented in the forge of information warfare and can reinvent itself therein Canada was invented to try and keep the information warfare out and is failing miserably at it I think America can take it, but Canada's democracy hasn't shown itself to be weaker. It might be because we're too small to matter, in fact it probably is. We would never have a January 6th incursion. "Canada was invented to try and keep the information warfare out" is not the kind of sentence you want to post without explanation I would love to go back in time and tell the New France fur trappers that those beavers are keeping information warfare out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: all is forgiven, I seek no followers, come & go as you please Do you want to clarify how Canada is weak and unstable and doesn't allow boat rocking ? I'm pretty interested in what you're saying, even if you're just posting off the cuff ... but if it's just a faux pas then I'll let it pass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Not only is that arguable but it is also off topic. I would say it's pretty tough to find countries more stable than Canada. Impasse. Our views of it are so divergent that there would be no point in arguing, fool's errand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I think America can take it, but Canada's democracy hasn't shown itself to be weaker. It might be because we're too small to matter, in fact it probably is. We would never have a January 6th incursion. "Canada was invented to try and keep the information warfare out" is not the kind of sentence you want to post without explanation I would love to go back in time and tell the New France fur trappers that those beavers are keeping information warfare out ! Confederation only exists to keep out American freedom Iron Curtain style it is entirely reactionary against it always has been without the threat of American freedom at the gates and being abandoned militarily by the British in the face of it because it couldn't defend Canada, and even if it could Britain did not view Canada as worth defending given the costs of doing so then there would be no Confederation Edited May 25, 2021 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: Do you want to clarify how Canada is weak and unstable and doesn't allow boat rocking ? I'm pretty interested in what you're saying, even if you're just posting off the cuff ... but if it's just a faux pas then I'll let it pass... Canada is unstable because the Confederation can be broken by a straight up vote there would be no civil war, Quebec votes to leave, Canada is done right there came so close in 1995 that they evacuated the CF-18's out of Quebec because they thought they were going to lose the vote that Sword of Damocles hangs over everything in Canada and is the main source of all corruption and dysfunction Ontario bribes Quebec into not ending Canada, with Alberta's money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 when you have a Confederation so unstable that it requires bribery & corruption to get anything done then it is very easy for the Chinese Communists in Beijing to join that game, with the biggest bribes of all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Confederation only exists to keep out American freedom Iron Curtain style it is entirely reactionary against it always has been indeed, Canada is the Confederacy which won the war against the Yankees and lived to tell the tale it is only the fear of those Yankees which holds it together, since 1812 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) that was the original Canadian "punching above weight class" at the Heights of Queenston 30,000 Yankees, 3,000 Canadians Brock fell in the opening volley the Canadians charged the heights from the low ground, forlorn hope then the Grand River Mohawks attacked from the woods on the flank the Americans were so afraid of being taken prisoner by the Mohawks they jumped off the cliffs to their deaths to get away God save the Queen & Her Mohawk Warriors Edited May 25, 2021 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 43 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: so it simply cannot take the pounding of an unrestricted information war this is why Canadians do not abide boat rockers, because if you rock the boat in Canada, you can sink it Indeed...the Canadian loyalists fled from the boat rockers...like Thomas Paine (Common Sense). Treason !!! (Yes...it was.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Indeed...the Canadian loyalists fled from the boat rockers...like Thomas Paine (Common Sense). Treason !!! (Yes...it was.) Indeed, Ontario's origin is not from Britain Upper Canada came from America, United Empire Loyalists fleeing being tarred & feathered Including Benedict Arnold, who actually hated it here, because it was a wilderness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 George Washington is the father of both nations not General George Washington, Major George Washington inciting the Seven Years War on behalf of the Virginia Company to ethnically cleanse the Ohio Valley of the Indians who were backed by the French after that war was won, suddenly the British started backing the Indians in the Ohio Valley and that is when the War of Independence began Americans would go West, nothing would stop them, Manifest Destiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: What about if America is doing the same thing ? Other countries ? Didn't China become Capitalist, not the other way around ?As American and Chinese officials meet this week, they can take inspiration from the collaboration and healthy competition on combating the COVID-19 pandemic taking place between their scientists, No, China is not a "Capitalist" country in the sense of western democracies. China allowed private companies, which are not really independent private companies in the same sense as the west. The Chinese Communist Party control everything and all companies if they see a benefit to their system. They may not be Communist according to the strict definition of Communism, but they are totalitarian, deny human rights, and a brutal regime. That headline is more propaganda, probably from China supporters. If you understood the struggle between America and China-Russia in the world in all spheres you would understand that talk is just nonsense. China keeps things secret if they deem it might be in their own interest. They don't admit to any fault or allow America to investigate the source of the Wuhan virus. You are really mistaken if you believe they are cooperating on much more than anything superficial. Any "cooperation" would only be if they saw something of significant benefit to themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 40 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Impasse. Our views of it are so divergent that there would be no point in arguing, fool's errand. It would help if you merely backed up your reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, blackbird said: If you understood the struggle between America and China-Russia in the world in all spheres you would understand that talk is just nonsense. Are they cooperating or not ? We have two mainstream sources - both are pointing out collaborations that are under way... between the US & China, and between Canada & China. Yet you seem to think it's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Confederation only exists to keep out American freedom Ok, so NOT to keep information warfare out, to keep freedom out.... Forgive me if I don't equate the two naturally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Ok, so NOT to keep information warfare out, to keep freedom out.... Forgive me if I don't equate the two naturally information warfare is an American freedom the first amendment Edited May 25, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Are they cooperating or not ? We have two mainstream sources - both are pointing out collaborations that are under way... between the US & China, and between Canada & China. Yet you seem to think it's different. I have done significant reading about China and what is going on in the world and don't accept your benign fictitious view of cooperation and collaboration between China and America. Maybe a bit between CAnada and China because liberals are more leaning toward acceptance of Communist China. There are many naive people in Canada and in the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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