A disgraceful coup against President Donald Trump is in the making.

[sharkman]

I don't know if it's been posted elsewhere but I hadn't heard that the total number of affidavits being brought forward in the Trump legal action was 2800 as of 2 days ago.  131 in Michigan and I'll bet twice that number in PA.

That's a staggering number.  I seriously hope that the election process gets cleaned up in time for the mid terms.  It's situation in which the campaign that cheats better and harder than the other side wins.  Surely one of the leading nations of the world can do better than that.

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, sharkman said:

I don't know if it's been posted elsewhere but I hadn't heard that the total number of affidavits being brought forward in the Trump legal action was 2800 as of 2 days ago.  131 in Michigan and I'll bet twice that number in PA.

That's a staggering number.  I seriously hope that the election process gets cleaned up in time for the mid terms.  It's situation in which the campaign that cheats better and harder than the other side wins.  Surely one of the leading nations of the world can do better than that.

USPS ‘Whistleblower’ Told Agents Project Veritas Penned His Ballot-Tampering Claim

Audio of Richard Hopkins’ interview with investigators shows him walking back his claim of ballot-tampering and admitting he wasn’t fully aware of what was in the affidavit.

Published Nov. 12, 2020 1:20AM ET
 

A postal worker whose allegation of ballot-tampering was at the center of Republican efforts to challenge the outcome of the presidential election has admitted to investigators that Project Veritas actually penned the affidavit laying out his claims. A two-hour audio recording released by Project Veritas on Wednesday shows Richard Hopkins being interviewed by federal investigators over his claim, first publicized by Project Veritas, that he had overheard a postmaster instructing workers in Erie, Pennsylvania, to backdate mail-in votes to meet the Election Day deadline. The audio had been touted by the conservative group as proof that Hopkins was manipulated by investigators but still stood by his allegations, despite House Democrats saying earlier this week that the U.S. Postal Service Office of Inspector General told them Hopkins admitted to fabricating the claims. 

But instead, it captured him doing the very opposite, according to The Washington Post. When he was asked if he wanted to stick with his claim about ballot-tampering, Hopkins said, “At this point? No.” He said his allegation had stemmed from “assumptions” he made after overhearing tidbits of staffers’ conversations in the mail facility. Hopkins told investigators not only that his affidavit was written by Project Veritas but that he wasn’t even entirely sure of what the group had included in it because he was in “so much shock I wasn’t paying that much attention to what they were telling me.” A spokesman for Project Veritas acknowledged having a hand in the affidavit but insisted that the “affidavit was drafted with Mr. Hopkins’ input and requested revisions,” according to the Post....,
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/usps-staffer-richard-hopkins-told-agents-project-veritas-penned-his-ballot-tampering-claim

[sharkman]

1) when you quote someone, it’s a good idea to demonstrate why you quoted them.  Your post has nothing directly to do with my post.

2) Richard Hopkins did not recant his story.  He’s been interviewed since and gone on the record saying how pressured he felt in that interview.  He should’ve had a union rep with him and possibly a lawyer. It’s interesting that they wanted to get him alone like that.  It’s obvious why they didn’t want him to have anyone with him who could protect his rights.

Edited November 12, 2020 by sharkman
fix error

[Argus]

10 hours ago, sharkman said:

2) Richard Hopkins did not recant his story.  He’s been interviewed since and gone on the record saying how pressured he felt in that interview.  He should’ve had a union rep with him and possibly a lawyer. It’s interesting that they wanted to get him alone like that.  It’s obvious why they didn’t want him to have anyone with him who could protect his rights.

The interview video was released, two hours of them talking to him and him basically admitting he didn't know a thing. He saw and heard bits and pieces of things but none of it was evidence of ballot tampering. He still thinks there was some, though. Because he's a member of the Trump cult. You're free to go online and watch the video as some other people did. There's no THERE there.

 

[sharkman]

1) The postal staff was told to gather any ballots that were still coming in.  Instead of processing them normally and letting them arrive at their labelled address.  
 

2) The whistleblower is obviously very stressed out over this, and the grilling he received by his employer.  Like I said earlier, they should have appointed him a union rep to prepare for this and a lawyer by the sound of it.

3) He says he stands by the original complaint and he was pressured to change his story.   But let’s say for sake of argument that he made the whole thing up.
 

4) There are Other mail workers in other cities and states who made complaints of a similar nature.   To just dismiss them as all liars really doesn’t help anything.  

The only thing that matters now is what physical evidence is there that supports the 2800 affidavits.  Time will tell.

The reason that I personally am interested in this is that I really despise people that cheat.  That the Dems used the Covid scare to allow mail in ballots with almost no oversights is beyond pathetic. 

That people like the Secretary of State for PA used her office to further the cheating(a PA court of appeals today said as much) tells you how widespread it is.

i really don’t think the courts will change the outcome of this election, but if they allow the law breaking to stand, then it’ll only get worse. Their republic will eventually become another Mexico, where payola is the norm, of officials, cops, judges and politicians.  
 

 

[Infidel Dog]

I watched the whole thing and you can too:

If you don't want to watch it Argus gave what appears to be some Reddit guy's opinion of what's in there, so I'll give you mine too for comparison.

The inquisitors come out of the gate hoping to make the guy think he's in trouble and they're going to help him. What follows is a lengthy game of pressure, then verbal duck and weave where they try to make the guy believe he's telling the same story but they're going to sterilize it for him to make sure he can't get into trouble. At the end of it they've pretty much put the words in the guy's mouth to tell the story the way they want the story to be heard rather than the way Hopkins remembered it. It's kind of the same story - just told through two mealier mouths.

Also O'Keefe has another UPS Whistle blower. This guy thinks he saw something shifty too. Maybe Stresser and Klein can get him in a room for a couple hours and convince him there's a better, "safer" way to think about what he heard too. And no I'm not 100% sure I heard the exact word "Safer" but I know damn well that's what the inquisitors meant when they interrogated Hopkins.

See that's what they do. They pressure you for an hour, convince you they're on your side and they're there to help, then they say are you sure you heard that exact word - "Safer?"

It's a trick.

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/breaking-new-pennsylvania-usps-whistleblower-supervisor-told-us-the-only/

Hopkins says he didn't recant and after watching the video of the interrogation I say he's telling the truth.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Cannucklehead]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5800454

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7459925/us-officials-vote-switching-allegations/amp/

 

Time to start the party. 

 

Sorry trumpers but you're not invited.  

[Argus]

10 hours ago, sharkman said:

The reason that I personally am interested in this is that I really despise people that cheat.  That the Dems used the Covid scare to allow mail in ballots with almost no oversights is beyond pathetic. 

So you despise people who cheat. So totally unproven allegations of the handling of mail-in ballots are terrible, but the Trump worshiping head of the US Postal Service deliberately removing sorting machines in Democratic cities and doing everything to slow down mail delivery around the election is what again?

[Argus]

8 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Also O'Keefe has another UPS Whistle blower.

Yes, and he and his group are so reliable and honest.

Project Veritas is an American far-right[10] activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010.[15] The group uses undercover techniques to reveal supposed liberal bias and corruption[11] and is known for producing deceptively edited videos about media organizations, left-leaning groups,[23] and debunked conspiracy theories.[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

James Edward O'Keefe III (born June 28, 1984) is an American conservative political activist[2] and provocateur.[3][4] He produces secretly recorded undercover audio and video encounters in academic, governmental, and social service organizations, purporting to show abusive or illegal behavior by employees and/or representatives of those organizations.[5] He has selectively edited videos to misrepresent the context of the conversations and the subjects' responses, creating the false impression that people said or did things they did not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O'Keefe

Edited November 13, 2020 by Argus

[sharkman]

Nope, I despise all cheating.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Nope, I despise all cheating.

No you don't.  Trump is desperately trying to cheat Joe Biden out of an election win and you appear to support that. 

You just despise cheating that doesn't get you what you want.

Edited November 13, 2020 by bcsapper

[sharkman]

The courts will decide who’s cheating, or committing fraud in this case.  That said, I’m sure some Trump voters also broke the laws, it’s basically a real mess.  
 

That’s why the courts need to clean it up.  

[Infidel Dog]

At this point I'm not optimistic all the fraud can be uncovered. They put too much effort into covering their tracks and they seem to have known what they were doing. It's almost like they'd done it before and knew what they could get away with. They were pretty brazen about it.

Quote

So automatically, first thing I hear, eye witness testimony from a county worker that they had been tampering with the machine in Allegheny County before the day of the election and had been counting or otherwise using the machine to get votes or to do something before they were legally allowed to do so. So immediately, I’m thinking this is shady.

I try to get in, I see the canvas location. And then there are cameras in an entirely different section of the warehouse, pointed at where the canvas workers are working, but they are bad cameras. They’re not very good.

And there’s only a few of them and they are placed so far away that you can see the people who are counting the ballots, but you can’t see the ballots they’re counting, which is the whole purpose of having a canvas watcher. The canvas watcher is not there to watch people. He’s there to watch the ballots.

The reason it’s important is because the Pennsylvania law for absentee and mail-in ballots states very clearly that no mail-in ballot is valid where the outer envelope is noncertified by the elector, or as I say, the voter.

And if there is no secrecy ballot—that is to say, no secrecy envelope containing a ballot inside of the outer certifying envelope—it is not a valid ballot. It is called a naked ballot, and it should be put aside immediately.

And if the secrecy ballot inside of the outer certification ballot has any markings, which tend to identify the elector or his political preferences or in any way attempts to communicate to the person who’s looking at the secrecy ballot the preferences or desires of the elector, those are also immediately disqualified. They’re not valid votes and they should be put aside.

Now, as you can imagine, you need to be able to actually see the ballot for that to work. You have to see the certification. You have to see the signature. You have to see the date and the address. You have to see that there are no markings on the secrecy ballot, and you have to make sure there’s a secrecy ballot.

None of which you can do if there’s a camera put up 20 feet away from where the people are opening the ballots and you are put in another room inside of the canvas location, away from the canvassers, and given a couple of television screens with teeny-tiny pictures of these guys counting votes.

When asked, this guy I know, another attorney there, David, he asked—I think it was David, it may have been Kathy—asked, “Well, all of this seems odd. It seems like we can’t really observe the ballots. So there’s really no point in being here, right?”

And he goes, “Yeah, that’s the point.” He literally admitted that the whole purpose was to keep us from watching the people counting the ballots.

Del Guidice: And you should have been able to be in the room, but it sounds like you were not permitted, correct?

Ranieri: Oh, no. None of us were permitted to actually be in the same room as canvassers. And the fact of the matter is that that’s not what the rules say. And as a result, we have no idea how many ballots were improperly cast.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/11/06/a-pro-bono-lawyer-for-trump-campaign-shares-what-he-saw-in-pennsylvania

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

At this point I'm not optimistic all the fraud can be uncovered. They put too much effort into covering their tracks and they seem to have known what they were doing. It's almost like they'd done it before and knew what they could get away with. They were pretty brazen about it.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/11/06/a-pro-bono-lawyer-for-trump-campaign-shares-what-he-saw-in-pennsylvania

That's handy.  That way, if they don't find any fraud, it won't be because there wasn't any, it will be because it was too well hidden.

At least you can keep on believing in it.

 

[Boges]

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/trump-campaign-lawyer-admits-to-judge-our-search-for-evidence-of-fraud-produced-obvious-lies-and-spam/

Quote

 

Shortly after, Langhofer went sharply off-message with Trump representatives telling any media outlet that would listen about their vast voter-fraud conspiracy theory.

“This is not a fraud case,” Langhofer said, casting the lawsuit instead as allegations of flaws within the voting system. “It is not a stealing-the-election case.”

That marked the second time in as many days that attorneys for the Trump campaign disavowed in court what the president and his loyalists alleged in print, tweets and on the public airwaves. On Wednesday, it was the campaign’s Porter Wright attorney Jonathan Goldstein who refused to allege fraud when pressed by a Pennsylvania judge.

 

It all nice to allege fraud on the internet. But when Trump lawyers have to present actual evidence to a judge in court, they fold like a cheap tent. Over and over again. 

[Michael Hardner]

Ok - I think two more states were announced with results: Georgia is democrat, NC is republican.  

So all states have reported and the total is the same as last time, but for the Democrats I think.

And as has been pointed out, no 'mass fraud' has been alleged in court.  

So are we done now ?  As in... this thread ?

[BeaverFever]

Trump campaign walks away from Arizona elections lawsuit
 

Nov. 13 (UPI) -- The Trump campaign on Friday dropped its participation in a lawsuit questioning the integrity of Arizona's in-person voting after President-elect Joe Biden received enough votes to be projected the winner in the state.
 

...A Maricopa County judge held a 6-hour hearing on the lawsuit Thursday before the Trump campaign walked away from the case. 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/11/13/Trump-campaign-walks-away-from-Arizona-elections-lawsuit/1701605293993/

Hey Trumpsters, another bullshit Trump claim disposed of....ENJOY!!! ?

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

That's handy.  That way, if they don't find any fraud, it won't be because there wasn't any, it will be because it was too well hidden.

At least you can keep on believing in it.

 

I believed there was voter fraud before this election. I just believe that this time Swing-State voter fraud was massive and there's massive reason to believe that.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

I believed there was voter fraud before this election. I just believe that this time Swing-State voter fraud was massive and there's massive reason to believe that.

Well, if it's massive, I'm sure they'll find it.  And if they do, and it is reported on a reputable news site, I'll change my view and believe it happened.

What will it take for you to change your view and believe it didn't?

[sidewinder]

There you go..............................:lol:

[Michael Hardner]

53 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 What will it take for you to change your view and believe it didn't?

You can't ask the religious to change their faith.

It's actually not reasonable - we are talking about FAITH here.

 

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Well, if it's massive, I'm sure they'll find it.

I'm not so sure. Like I said they were massively prepared to cover their tracks.

Cameras were directed to innocent areas or put 30 or more feet away to make sure ballot watchers couldn't see what sort of ballots were being stuffed into the tabulators and it turns out that's important because one of the ways you fix the vote doesn't involve the machines themselves. You just stuff a ballot in there that shouldn't be tabulated.

Although it's also possible to cheat both the software and the hardware. There have been previous allegations of Dominion voting tabulator hi-jinks in the 2012 Philippines election. There was a conviction against some company connected to Dominion called Smartmatic. It's run by a Soros operative. A hacker showed how Dominion software could be made to flip votes if you could get 15 minutes alone with it and slip in a different chip.

I doubt you read the clip I gave you from the lawyer who did some poll watching, before the election began. He had a chance to talk to a county worker:

Quote

And in the course of that 15 minutes, he told me he had observed them turning on the voting machine the day before, he had seen them running ballots through it. And when he asked them what they were doing, they told him that they were just removing deceased people, but you’re not supposed to do that until 7 a.m. on the day of the election. So, that was probably a lie.

So did they have a chance to change the chip?

There was a plethora of techniques used to keep poll watchers from seeing too much or anything. Covid could be used as an excuse. They would do things like separate democrat poll watchers from Republican, then exclude the Republican saying they were too late and it was too crowded or some other bogus excuse. In Philadelphia there's a recording of a trainer teaching the canvassers how to keep poll watchers from getting close enough  to see too much. They could demand 6 feet clearance then push their tables up to 5 feet from the wall so the poll watcher couldn't get behind the canvasser to see what he was up to.

One of the main things they didn't want people to see was whether or not the ballot came in what's called a 'secrecy envelope.' There were multiple techniques for hiding that information across all the swing states. Here's an example of one place they wouldn't let watchers see too much about 'secrecy envelopes':

Quote

The reason it’s important is because the Pennsylvania law for absentee and mail-in ballots states very clearly that no mail-in ballot is valid where the outer envelope is noncertified by the elector, or as I say, the voter.

And if there is no secrecy ballot—that is to say, no secrecy envelope containing a ballot inside of the outer certifying envelope—it is not a valid ballot. It is called a naked ballot, and it should be put aside immediately.

And if the secrecy ballot inside of the outer certification ballot has any markings, which tend to identify the elector or his political preferences or in any way attempts to communicate to the person who’s looking at the secrecy ballot the preferences or desires of the elector, those are also immediately disqualified. They’re not valid votes and they should be put aside.

Now, as you can imagine, you need to be able to actually see the ballot for that to work. You have to see the certification. You have to see the signature. You have to see the date and the address. You have to see that there are no markings on the secrecy ballot, and you have to make sure there’s a secrecy ballot.

None of which you can do if there’s a camera put up 20 feet away from where the people are opening the ballots and you are put in another room inside of the canvas location, away from the canvassers, and given a couple of television screens with teeny-tiny pictures of these guys counting votes.

And this is all just stuff I remember off the top of my head. There's tons more. 

Oh like for instance I imagine you heard about them blocking the viewing windows in Detroit:

The coup's partners in fraud in the media offered an excuse of course:

Quote

When locked-out challengers could not get inside, many began filming through the building’s large glass windows.

Ballot counters said they felt intimidated by people videotaping the process through the glass, and security put up paper on the windows as a solution. However, this measure caused the locked-out challengers to bang on the glass even hard and fueled suspicions. 

“We will not allow ANYONE to distract us from the job at hand," Detroit City Clerk Janice Winfrey later said in a prepared statement addressing protesters. "Our charge is to remain calm, focused and deliberate as we continue the task at hand.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/10/fact-check-videos-crowd-locked-out-detroit-center-lack-context/6195038002/

There's always an excuse and none of this is hard evidence that will matter in court but you put the gigantic mass of it together and I've yet to see why a reasonable person wouldn't at least wonder why all this diversion and cover-up was necessary. 

Myself, it convinces me the fix was in. And yes even if the coup succeeds and Harris...pardon me, Biden is offered up as whatever's behind all this's figurehead leader I'll still say this election was fixed.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

What will it take for you to change your view and believe it didn't?

What will it take to convince you the fix was in?

[Infidel Dog]

You don't have to spend all day looking for the source on this one Beave. Just ask I'll link you to the video.

They say it was a gaffe on the left. We call it a dead on, Freudian slip on the right.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[sharkman]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't ask the religious to change their faith.

It's actually not reasonable - we are talking about FAITH here.

 

That’s so true, and I’m glad it’s finally being recognized.

The religious fanatics refused to believe that Trump beat Hilary for 4 long years.  Fake collusion hoaxes were dreamed up, Fake ‘fat checks’ were done on everything he said or did and riots were executed with military precision Costing multiple billions of dollars of damage.

And when he got the economy fired up it they thanked Obama, who wouldn’t know a hot economy from a hot stove.

And when Trump’s plan for jump starting a Covid vaccine worked in under a year(when every single ‘expert’ promised a 2+ year wait), then people like you claim some silly nonsense.  
 

Yup, the religious fanatics can’t be trusted, which is why there is over 2800 affidavits working their way through the courts.