This is now very little ability to disagree with the Left

[ironstone]

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

While I do agree that the "left" has got out of hand with political correctness (the latest on JK Rowling is the worst kind of SJW outrage), the sort of language you're using above is really just as bad, just from the other perspective.  

A lot of "good" stuff has been accomplished by the Left in recent decades.  Same-sex marriage, the entrenchment of abortion rights, minimum wage improvements and even the repealing of the $10000/y TFSA contribution limits can all be seen as "wins" for the Left, and all of it is good policy-making.  

 

Could you list any or all of the good things done by the Left that have benefitted the economy?

[Rue]

13 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Could you list any or all of the good things done by the Left that have benefitted the economy?

Free trade, cooperatives for farmers, insurance, unemployment insurance, worker's compensation insurance system.

[ironstone]

Free trade was a big one. Are you saying that Free Trade came from the political Left? Have you heard the name Brian Mulroney before?

The other things you listed would fall into the category of the social safety net.We certainly need a social safety net of course but not the parts that almost encourage people not to contribute to society.

I'm not saying that there have never been big,beneficial initiatives from the Left either. I'll even give you one, from the Chretien/Martin government. They aggressively balanced the budget and were able to do it mainly through deep cuts in spending. Because they were Liberals they had a certain degree of immunity from criticism from the media,but that's another topic.

What has Trudeau done that has been as big and beneficial to our economy that compares to Free Trade?  Energy? Nope. Debt reduction? Nope. 

[Moonbox]

On 6/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, Argus said:

What language is just as bad - as an example?

My concern is with the growing intolerance for differing opinion, the growing sense among the activist left that words they don't like constitute 'violence', and that they need to be defended from such violence. The fact that Stockwell Day can't even say that he didn't see systemic racism in Canada without being ousted from all his paying jobs as if he's some kind of evil person who must be shunned speaks volumes on just what lack of acceptance there is for anyone daring to oppose the Left's social views. The left has decided that all their views are virtuous, and all views which differ are sinful and vile. There is no room for a difference of opinion. It is all about morality. You either agree with the Left or you're immoral and bad.

Language like "stunned and stupid Liberals" is foolish, as it leaves virtually no room for intelligent conversation.  It's not much different for JK Rowling getting piled on for saying "people who menstruate" is her definition of "woman".  Nobody cares what she's actually saying, and would prefer to label her as a bigot or, at best, out of touch and foolish.  

Both sides are are guilty of this, though obviously one side is getting more media attention than the other.  

 

[Moonbox]

On 6/13/2020 at 9:31 AM, Rue said:

Free trade, cooperatives for farmers, insurance, unemployment insurance, worker's compensation insurance system.

Free trade is more of a right-wing thing actually.  

The left has done plenty of good for the economy.  Things like universal health care and education are great for the economy, and are absolutely a reason why companies set up shop in Canada.  Not having to provide comprehensive health benefits is a fantastic incentive, as is having a skilled and educated workforce. 

Conversely, the "right" has caused all sorts of damage to the economy.  The financial crisis was a result of poor regulation and unchecked greed, and it certainly wasn't university professors and SJW's that caused that.  

Both sides have demonstrated good and bad.  The danger is discounting one side altogether as bad, and deciding that the other is defacto "good".  That's a recipe for brain-dead politics.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by Moonbox

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Language like "stunned and stupid Liberals" is foolish, as it leaves virtually no room for intelligent conversation.

Are you sure you're talking to the right person? Do you have a cite to go with that quote?

[Nefarious Banana]

24 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Free trade is more of a right-wing thing actually.  

The left has done plenty of good for the economy  . . . . Care to elaborate?

Conversely, the "right" has caused all sorts of damage to the economy.  Again, care to elaborate? 

The danger is discounting one side altogether as bad, and deciding that the other is defacto 'good'.  Any thinking person of any stripe would see that this present Liberal 'clown prince' has damaged this country financially before the Covid, damaged the country by discouraging investment, by widening the racial differences (ban on guns does not apply to the Indians), killed the goose that laid the golden $$ eggs (Alberta) . . . . the list is long and sad.  You sound like a typical Toronto voter . . . . ?? 

 

[Moonbox]

 

32 minutes ago, Argus said:

Are you sure you're talking to the right person? Do you have a cite to go with that quote?

I wasn't quoting you.  

@Nefarious Banana:

I did elaborate...right in the post you've quoted.  Go ahead and read the entirety of each sentence.  

As for everything else you said there...I'm not even going to respond.  I don't see even a shred of interest from you on having an intelligent conversation.  You just want to rant nonsense and attack people. 

For the record, I've never voted anything but PC in an Ontario election, and have only occasionally voted Liberal federally.  I'm a typical Toronto voter though....hahaha.   

Edited June 15, 2020 by Moonbox

[Nefarious Banana]

50 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I did elaborate...right in the post you've quoted.  Go ahead and read the entirety of each sentence. I'm not even going to respond. 

I don't see even a shred of interest from you on having an intelligent conversation.  You just want to rant nonsense and attack people. 

I've never voted anything but PC in an Ontario election, and have only occasionally voted Liberal federally.  I'm a typical Toronto voter though.....   

Your non-response is to be expected.  Nothing new there. Carry on.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

The left has done plenty of good for the economy.  Things like universal health care and education are great for the economy, and are absolutely a reason why companies set up shop in Canada.  Not having to provide comprehensive health benefits is a fantastic incentive, as is having a skilled and educated workforce. 

Conversely, the "right" has caused all sorts of damage to the economy.  The financial crisis was a result of poor regulation and unchecked greed, and it certainly wasn't university professors and SJW's that caused that.  

Both sides have demonstrated good and bad.  The danger is discounting one side altogether as bad, and deciding that the other is defacto "good".  That's a recipe for brain-dead politics.  

I was sure that the father of universal health care was created by the NDP, at the provincial level way back in the day, well before Trudeau snr created the bill...Not sure where your going with the education quote, I'm only assuming your talking about general education, as higher education is a national problem do to costs and relevance to todays job market...

As for the economy you seem to have very selective memory , not mention SNR role in creating the dairy cartel, which controls those high prices that are forced upon the consumers, but also forces farmers to pay for the privilege of owning a quota...plus all the rest of cartels that were created by selling quota's...lets not mention all the red tape that JR created to slow down any infra structure project in the entire country...don't even go into the oil industry....and the damage the liberals have down there....

I will agree that both sides share responsibility in the damage that has been down, and today we face an ugly reality once this covid dies...if it dies...and it is going to take all political parties to help set it straight...but that is not happening now , nor do I see it in the future, look at the infighting that is taking place now...and all of this is made more frustrating by the fact none of the sides can even talk to each other...with all this back room dealings and whispering, the lies and deceit no wonder no one trusts anyone....one day a party is going to step up to the plate and do what is in the best interest of the country, and not how do I get elected again...

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

 

For the record, I've never voted anything but PC in an Ontario election, and have only occasionally voted Liberal federally.  I'm a typical Toronto voter though....hahaha.   

How does that work going from Doug ford, to Justin I can't fathom the thought process here. Unless drugs are involved ? 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

As for everything else you said there...I'm not even going to respond.  I don't see even a shred of interest from you on having an intelligent conversation.  You just want to rant nonsense and attack people.

Given it's you that is attacking me, I think you're attitude is more than slightly hypocritical. I engage politely with anyone who engages politely with me. If you find yourself disagreeing with what I say and yet incapable of challenging it in an intelligent conversation that speaks more to your lack of ability than my attitude.

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

Given it's you that is attacking me, I think you're attitude is more than slightly hypocritical. I engage politely with anyone who engages politely with me. If you find yourself disagreeing with what I say and yet incapable of challenging it in an intelligent conversation that speaks more to your lack of ability than my attitude.

I wasn't talking to you Argus.  I was quoting Nefarious Banana and his worthless vitriol.  I imagine you have him blocked, because he appears to be an angry-nonsense ranter.  

You and I have agreed on your OP in other thread.  I'm not attacking you or even disagreeing with you.  

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I wasn't talking to you Argus.  I was quoting Nefarious Banana and his worthless vitriol.  I imagine you have him blocked, because he appears to be an angry-nonsense ranter.  

You and I have agreed on your OP in other thread.  I'm not attacking you or even disagreeing with you.  

Okay then. Sorry. Confusion all round.

[Nefarious Banana]

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I wasn't talking to you Argus.  I was quoting Nefarious Banana and his worthless vitriol.  I imagine you have him blocked, because he appears to be an angry-nonsense ranter.   

Obviously you don't have my posts blocked, as I don't have yours blocked. I do enjoy your pretentious posts. I'm easily amused.  Carry on . . . 

[Moonbox]

It seems as though Argus does though, since he couldn't see that I was quoting and talking to you.  I've no doubt you're easily amused though.  

Edited June 16, 2020 by Moonbox

[marcus]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:30 AM, ironstone said:

Free trade was a big one. Are you saying that Free Trade came from the political Left? Have you heard the name Brian Mulroney before?

The other things you listed would fall into the category of the social safety net.We certainly need a social safety net of course but not the parts that almost encourage people not to contribute to society.

I'm not saying that there have never been big,beneficial initiatives from the Left either. I'll even give you one, from the Chretien/Martin government. They aggressively balanced the budget and were able to do it mainly through deep cuts in spending. Because they were Liberals they had a certain degree of immunity from criticism from the media,but that's another topic.

What has Trudeau done that has been as big and beneficial to our economy that compares to Free Trade?  Energy? Nope. Debt reduction? Nope. 

The economy has not been this good in Canada for some time. Not only that, but Trudeau has moved Canada away from being a petrol economy, where the biggest factor for the worth of our dollar was the price of oil, towards technology.

Here is more:

Unemployment fell faster than in any developed nation during the 40 months that ended in May, to its lowest level since 1976. Gross domestic product accelerated to a pace second only to the U.S. rate. The stock and bond markets proved world beaters with the best returns and most stability.

Behind the robust health are data showing Canada transitioning to a technology juggernaut from a country defined by its dependence on fossil fuels. While the government continues to subsidize coal, gas and oil, which account for 77% of the nation's energy needs, the correlation between the price of oil and Canadian stocks has all but disappeared since Trudeau became prime minister, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The traditional interdependence of stocks and oil prevailed during the 10 years preceding his election.

 

All of which helps make the economy stronger and technology the fastest-growing Canadian industry. While Canada's GDP has grown 8% since 2015, its semiconductor business has expanded 11%; electronic products, 27%; computer systems 23%, and information technology, 36%, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
 

Technology is driving the job market, too. While prices for oil, gas and coal averaged well below the decade's highs -- providing little incentive for expansion -- Canada's unemployment rate declined 1.8 percentage points in the 40 months since 2016, faster than the 1.3 percentage point pace for the U.S. over the same period and the steepest drop since May 2001, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

 

I'm not a "Liberal Supporter". I also have issues with Trudeau. However, I don't function on absolutism, like some people on this forum. Where nothing Trudeau does is okay or good. Where everything Trudeau has done has been 100% wrong. I give credit where credit is due and overall, Trudeau has made good economic choices. 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

It seems as though Argus does though, since he couldn't see that I was quoting and talking to you.  I've no doubt you're easily amused though.  

No. My confusion arose because your first post talking about 'the language you use' was posted immediately underneath one of mine, without quoting who you were speaking to.

[Moonbox]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

No. My confusion arose because your first post talking about 'the language you use' was posted immediately underneath one of mine, without quoting who you were speaking to.

It wasn't.  My first post was directly below and responding to taxme, and the next was under Nefarious Banana.  

Doesn't really matter at any rate.  

[taxme]

On 6/7/2020 at 5:06 PM, WestCanMan said:

In all honesty, I'm done with this country and I want it to break apart. I hate being Canadian now. 

I literally can't believe that there are people who are stupid enough to still support Trudeau.

The little wimp did everything he could to get covid here, and for it to be spread far and wide as fast as possible, then he hid in his basement while nearly 8,000 Canadians died.

People still aren't allowed to go back to work or have weddings or funerals because they can't gather, and he goes out in a mob of thousands.

And that's just in the last month or so. 

And we now have this racism bull crap going on along with this hoax of a virus bs too add more fuel to the fire. These demonstrations appear to be more about BLM demos of  burn, loot, and cause mayhem rather than about trying to stop racism. If anyone now dares to try and criticize the BLM  program and agenda , one can now be considered a racist. Some people have even lost their jobs because they dared to question BLM. The leftist Antifa/BLM comrades among our midst appear to be only able to cause mayhem and chaos, and nothing more. How can anyone in a state of a sound mind not see all of this looting and burning and mayhem as a peaceful way of trying to stop racism?  This has more to do with the promotion of communism and nothing more. Just my opinion of course. 

[Argus]

21 minutes ago, marcus said:

Unemployment fell faster than in any developed nation during the 40 months that ended in May,

I always get suspicious when people use an odd time frame. Forty months? That's a time frame designed to support his point. In truth, no one can point to anything Trudeau has done to improve the economy. His actions have instead been designed to discourage the resource economy, while increasing taxes on everyone else. Canada's economy expanded due to American expansion, which is the norm for us. I might add that our unemployment rate was considerably higher than the US rate.

21 minutes ago, marcus said:

to its lowest level since 1976. Gross domestic product accelerated to a pace second only to the U.S. rate.

Shitloads of government spending will do that for you. But as debt mounts we're looking at a very uncertain future.

21 minutes ago, marcus said:

The stock and bond markets proved world beaters with the best returns and most stability.

Stability? Meaning they're doing anything useful. In past years most of my stocks were Canadian. The last year or so I've found almost nothing in Canada worth investing in. The TXS has not exactly impressed.

21 minutes ago, marcus said:

Behind the robust health are data showing Canada transitioning to a technology juggernaut from a country defined by its dependence on fossil fuels.

No, more like transitioning to a country living on borrowed money. Technology juggernaut? Seriously? If that were the case we wouldn't have to underpay workers in our technology sector in order to compete. We underpay them so much compared to what the US pays that we have to import thousands of third world workers while ours flood south to work in the US technology sector.

 

[taxme]

28 minutes ago, marcus said:

The economy has not been this good in Canada for some time. Not only that, but Trudeau has moved Canada away from being a petrol economy, where the biggest factor for the worth of our dollar was the price of oil, towards technology.

Here is more:

Unemployment fell faster than in any developed nation during the 40 months that ended in May, to its lowest level since 1976. Gross domestic product accelerated to a pace second only to the U.S. rate. The stock and bond markets proved world beaters with the best returns and most stability.

Behind the robust health are data showing Canada transitioning to a technology juggernaut from a country defined by its dependence on fossil fuels. While the government continues to subsidize coal, gas and oil, which account for 77% of the nation's energy needs, the correlation between the price of oil and Canadian stocks has all but disappeared since Trudeau became prime minister, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The traditional interdependence of stocks and oil prevailed during the 10 years preceding his election.

 

All of which helps make the economy stronger and technology the fastest-growing Canadian industry. While Canada's GDP has grown 8% since 2015, its semiconductor business has expanded 11%; electronic products, 27%; computer systems 23%, and information technology, 36%, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
 

Technology is driving the job market, too. While prices for oil, gas and coal averaged well below the decade's highs -- providing little incentive for expansion -- Canada's unemployment rate declined 1.8 percentage points in the 40 months since 2016, faster than the 1.3 percentage point pace for the U.S. over the same period and the steepest drop since May 2001, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

 

I'm not a "Liberal Supporter". I also have issues with Trudeau. However, I don't function on absolutism, like some people on this forum. Where nothing Trudeau does is okay or good. Where everything Trudeau has done has been 100% wrong. I give credit where credit is due and overall, Trudeau has made good economic choices. 

I personally believe that you are a communist supporter. Am I right or not? Come on, spit it out. 

[Argus]

8 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

It wasn't.  My first post was directly below and responding to taxme, and the next was under Nefarious Banana.  

Doesn't really matter at any rate.  

No. And Taxme IS in my ignore list so I wouldn't have seen his posts.

[taxme]

On 6/13/2020 at 6:31 AM, Rue said:

Free trade, cooperatives for farmers, insurance, unemployment insurance, worker's compensation insurance system.

I only see more leftist lieberal and socialist government/red tape, more new taxes or a raise in some present day taxes, and the loss of freedom of speech from your hero comrade Trudeau. Comrade Trudeau has bought off the Canadian, now called Pravda media, which means that they now must bend the knee to Trudeau. Comrade Trudeau borrows hundreds of billions of dollars from the globalist banksters to give away as foreign aid to other foreign countries, especially the 3rd world ones, which you will have to pay back to those globalist banksters. Comrade Trudeau has no love for Canada or Canadians. He loves his communism just like his old man did. Trudeau says that he admires communist China. How can any world leader living in a so called free and democratic country, like Canada is for now, say that they admire communism? Trudeau is a communist globalist, and has no love for you, fella. But of course you may be a communist supporter for all I know, eh?  Just wondering. 

[marcus]

19 minutes ago, taxme said:

I personally believe that you are a communist supporter. Am I right or not? Come on, spit it out. 

I'm not. Far from it.