Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

It’s too bad these days even the experts and scientists are politicians themselves.

Everyone is to some extent some are more than others some are less is all, it's part of being human.  You might as well say its too bad people have hair.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's why we have experts and science. All we really need beyond that are politicians who have the sense to know their limits learn to listen and give more weight to expert scientific advice than their own and in so doing set a better more reasoned example for society to follow.

It’s pretty bad when Trump is smart enough to figure out that he needed to block travel from China and our entire government, plus our scientific and medical communities weren’t even smart enough to follow suit. 
Dr Tam finally admitted that we should’ve close the borders earlier but it’s of little consequence now to all the people whose family members died as a result of her blatant stupidity. 
We all knew Trudeau was that stupid, we needed Dr Tam to step up. 

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Everyone is to some extent some are more than others some are less is all, it's part of being human.  You might as well say its too bad people have hair.

This sounds like excuses. Totalitarianism is a thing.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

This sounds like excuses. Totalitarianism is a thing.

That's right and it's what people do with things that matters not the things themselves.

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

It’s pretty bad when Trump is smart enough to figure out that he needed to block travel from China and our entire government, plus our scientific and medical communities weren’t even smart enough to follow suit. 
Dr Tam finally admitted that we should’ve close the borders earlier but it’s of little consequence now to all the people whose family members died as a result of her blatant stupidity. 
We all knew Trudeau was that stupid, we needed Dr Tam to step up. 

Meanwhile the cost of delaying lockdowns in the US is being pegged at 36000 unnecessary deaths according to data analysed by Columbia University.

Probably just political scientists.

Quote

If the United States had begun imposing social distancing measures one week earlier than it did in March, about 36,000 fewer people would have died in the coronavirus outbreak, according to new estimates from Columbia University disease modelers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html

 

The bottom line is that so very few countries got enough things right to merit castigating those who didn't.  The only reason to do that is to toot your own horn which as evidence grows sounds weaker and lamer with each toot.

[OftenWrong]

33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's right and it's what people do with things that matters not the things themselves.

So being a political liar is fine, everyone does it. Got it, check.

[eyeball]

58 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

So being a political liar is fine, everyone does it. Got it, check.

No you don't get it at all I'm afraid, not a bit in fact.  It's remarkable just how dense you're capable of being. Do they give out diplomas for that or something?

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Meanwhile the cost of delaying lockdowns in the US is being pegged at 36000 unnecessary deaths according to data analysed by Columbia University.

Probably just political scientists.

There's no excuse for that level of stupidity coming out of a University that's right in Manhattan. They should be well aware of all the bad advice they got from their Mayor, public health official and governor.

One of the biggest contributors to the covid death toll in the US was Cuomo's decision to put 4,300 recovering covid patients back in the care homes. Was this an effort in euthanasia? https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ap-count-4300-virus-patients-ny-nursing-homes-70825470

If NY State care homes were a country of their own they'd be a world leader (13th) in covid deaths but that doesn't include care home residents who were sent to hospitals and died there. https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/new-york-state-coronavirus-deaths-nursing-homes-update-20200505.html

There were 4,813 between March 1 and May 5, that's more than China (unless they're lying, which is highly likely), and I can't emphasize strongly enough that the number would be much greater if it included the deaths of care home residents who passed away after they were sent to the hospital. They could be as high as 5th. There's no way of knowing right now.

Quote

Nursing home residents have made up roughly one-fourth to one-fifth of the state’s official tally of fatalities. But just how many nursing home residents have died of COVID-19 remains uncertain despite the state’s latest disclosure, as the list doesn’t include deaths of nursing home residents at hospitals or any details about the number of COVID-19 cases at individual nursing homes.

Trump shut down travel from China when there were just a few covid cases in the US  and he started shutting down the country when there were less than 100 deaths. You can't say that he under-reacted. Those were big steps.

Quote

The bottom line is that so very few countries got enough things right to merit castigating those who didn't.  The only reason to do that is to toot your own horn which as evidence grows sounds weaker and lamer with each toot.

The bottom line is that with the benefit of hindsight, we can clearly see that the number of covid deaths is inversely proportional with how quickly each country banned travel and how many of their citizens wore masks.  Countries that banned travel from covid hotspots and told their citizens to wear masks absolutely smashed covid. Countries that didn't do those things were hammered by covid. Canada was the worst of the worst on those two topics. 

If you found an actuary, virologist or even just a grade ten math teacher somehwere in the world who didn't have a clue what Canada's death toll was, and you told them that Canada didn't ban travel and that they told their citizens not to wear masks, and that we didn't start talking about social distancing until March 16th every single one of those people would be able to predict Canada's lofty position on the death toll charts 

Canada has a massive death toll considering that we have universal health care, a low population and even lower population density. We should be approximately 50th to 80th based on the population numbers alone. 

There's absolutely no room left for debate on the issue of whether or not our government failed, or even how badly they failed. They ran the ball into their own end zone and left it on the ground for team covid to pick up.

Edited May 23, 2020 by WestCanMan

[Shady]

Good news.  Except that Trump did this type of thing like 2 months ago.  But I’m sure Trudeau will be lavished with praise.

GM signs contract with Ottawa to produce 10 million masks

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-signs-contract-with-ottawa-to-produce-10-million-masks-160027024.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFfBUWXanhohEobIZZ9N9EEfZcqyLCIiNGKqpuh8oD-nMBgtEq7Ov_Q_yh2ts9S6bUjiFWFhB2AnpHN_aOJc4OPJHqs8FOZGIWsaET1qyC05f1DMGGWywmNIhpQJh3sts_Pf21qF5ySbLW-P43z-u4KNdiCmcjkNvpOuqeBbo4lq

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Shady said:

Good news.  Except that Trump did this type of thing like 2 months ago.  But I’m sure Trudeau will be lavished with praise.

GM signs contract with Ottawa to produce 10 million masks

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-signs-contract-with-ottawa-to-produce-10-million-masks-160027024.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFfBUWXanhohEobIZZ9N9EEfZcqyLCIiNGKqpuh8oD-nMBgtEq7Ov_Q_yh2ts9S6bUjiFWFhB2AnpHN_aOJc4OPJHqs8FOZGIWsaET1qyC05f1DMGGWywmNIhpQJh3sts_Pf21qF5ySbLW-P43z-u4KNdiCmcjkNvpOuqeBbo4lq

Taiwan is producing more every day than GM will produce in a year. So big deal.

Why you feel the need to try and find every excuse to promote that disgraceful, disgusting, bullying, lying scumbag is beyond me. Yes, Trudeau is a piece of shit. And Trump is a septic tank.
 

[Shady]

57 minutes ago, Argus said:

Taiwan is producing more every day than GM will produce in a year. So big deal.

Why you feel the need to try and find every excuse to promote that disgraceful, disgusting, bullying, lying scumbag is beyond me. Yes, Trudeau is a piece of shit. And Trump is a septic tank.
 

I’m not promoting Trump.  I’m illustrating the derangement of how Trump gets saddled with every American covid death and a “late” response, while Trudeau gets praised, while he’s literally done everything the United States has done, but weeks, if not months later.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Shady said:

I’m not promoting Trump.  I’m illustrating the derangement of how Trump gets saddled with every American covid death and a “late” response, while Trudeau gets praised, while he’s literally done everything the United States has done, but weeks, if not months later.

 

Sure...it's just more of the same, regardless of COVID-19.    Canada has almost 7,000 deaths and is #12 in the world for deaths per million population, but Trudeau was already an impotent side show before the pandemic.     So blame Trump...he matters more in this "game".

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sure...it's just more of the same, regardless of COVID-19.    Canada has almost 7,000 deaths and is #12 in the world for deaths per million population, but Trudeau was already an impotent side show before the pandemic.     So blame Trump...he matters more in this "game".

Exactly.  The United States is 9th in deaths per capita, Canada is currently 12th, but moving up fast.  We may catch and pass the United States in another month.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

Exactly.  The United States is 9th in deaths per capita, Canada is currently 12th, but moving up fast.  We may catch and pass the United States in another month.

 

There is also a difference in national narratives....many Canadians, especially those on the left, loath any direct or indirect attacks on universal health care systems, and have pivoted to attacking right leaning premiers in Ontario and Quebec instead, because "provinces are responsible".   Same  is happening because of the horror stories coming out of long term care facilities.

So no matter what the actual facts on the ground, the pre-existing political biases will lean the usual way, especially during a crisis.    Trudeau is even trying to force changes without Parliament ("never waste a serious crisis").

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

I’m not promoting Trump.  I’m illustrating the derangement of how Trump gets saddled with every American covid death and a “late” response, while Trudeau gets praised, while he’s literally done everything the United States has done, but weeks, if not months later.

Who is praising Trudeau?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

many Canadians, especially those on the left, loath any direct or indirect attacks on universal health care systems

No, we're all quite used to the usual kicking and screaming of conservatives. What really gets my goat is when left-leaning politicians pay attention to it and fail to act to make the system better for fear of riling even more kicking and screaming.

But it's good to see conservatives finally appreciating how shitty the system is. Typically it takes a disaster or a crisis to galvanize anyone's attention at the same time.  Probably won't take long to wear off though.  Fear of free stuff and who pays the Martians off would assert itself soon enough and it'll be back to kicking and screaming as usual.

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, we're all quite used to the usual kicking and screaming of conservatives. What really gets my goat is when left-leaning politicians pay attention to it and fail to act to make the system better for fear of riling even more kicking and screaming.

But it's good to see conservatives finally appreciating how shitty the system is. Typically it takes a disaster or a crisis to galvanize anyone's attention at the same time.  Probably won't take long to wear off though.  Fear of free stuff and who pays the Martians off would assert itself soon enough and it'll be back to kicking and screaming as usual.

Take heart eyeball. We know that you tried really hard here little buddy. 

It's not that we're picking on you, you're just not grasping the subject matter at hand. It's some real "grown-up" stuff. At the very least you'd need to understand simple statistics and have a rudimentary understanding of things that people have known since the dark ages to really "get this", ya know? 

It's no crime to have no clue what's going on. Just get really good at selfies and wear some colourful socks, you could be PM one day.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Who is praising Trudeau?

You are.

Fact is that Trump ran circles around sock-boy in the fight against covid, but people like you act like Trudeau did fine for us Canadians and that Trump failed 'Murica.

Turns out that "Leave the flights from covid hotspots rollin' in and don't wear masks" were the exact wrong choices to make. That's why Canada is 11th in the world in covid deaths despite being 39th highest in population and 187th in pop density. 

I was well aware that masks are good and that allowing people with covid to come here was bad right away. I'm not saying that  I'm a genius, I'm just saying that I'm smarter than the WHO, Trudeau, Tam and Hajdu put together.  

I'm glad to see that liberals are finally starting to realize these things. Somehow they just don't know that the same things that are true now were true BEFORE March 16th as well. That's what we're trying to illustrate in this thread. On the bright side, they've already gotten to stage one of the two-stage process. That's astounding for a liberal mind, but you're peddling their drug of choice - "TrumpsFaultenol" (it's like Fentanyl for really stupid people). 

[Argus]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You are.

I invite you to find anywhere I've ever praised Trudeau. But no matter. I'm not sure you're exactly sane on this topic.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Take heart eyeball. We know that you tried really hard here little buddy. 

It's not that we're picking on you, you're just not grasping the subject matter at hand. It's some real "grown-up" stuff. At the very least you'd need to understand simple statistics and have a rudimentary understanding of things that people have known since the dark ages to really "get this", ya know? 

It's no crime to have no clue what's going on. Just get really good at selfies and wear some colourful socks, you could be PM one day.

Oh noes not the adult card again.

BTW what statistics? We were talking about the way you and Trump are triggered by fact checking.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I invite you to find anywhere I've ever praised Trudeau. But no matter. I'm not sure you're exactly sane on this topic.

Everything I've said here is 100% true & accurate, and I haven't omitted any pertinent details. 

That's insanity to you, but for me it's normal.

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Shady said:

Good news.  Except that Trump did this type of thing like 2 months ago.  But I’m sure Trudeau will be lavished with praise.

Yeah wonderful news, but by now we don't need them anymore. I just heard that practically every neighborhood in Toronto has the virus.

Quote

Toronto’s chief medical officer of health says COVID-19 is present in every neighbourhood, but the northwest and northeast parts of the city have the highest number of infections. Dr. Eileen de Villa notes that the map represents where patients live, not necessarily where they caught the virus.

So much for social distancing by half-measures? But no, actually in terms of what little I know about virology it could be a good thing. DOctors are trying to speak out about the need for herd immunity. They are not being listened to. And yet it is spreading, and the immunity is happening anyway, before our very eyes and despite all efforts to stop it.

[OftenWrong]

Nice little follow-up:

Quote

De Villa says the data should be used to encourage proactive testing in certain neighbourhoods and promote education, rather than stigmatizing the regions.

We sure went from a global community to the kind of place where they don't like strangers, really fast.

[WestCanMan]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Oh noes not the adult card again.

BTW what statistics? We were talking about the way you and Trump are triggered by fact checking.

You were blabbering. There's a difference.

I looked at your fact checker for 1 minute, found two of their lies, and posted the evidence to you. You couldn't find fault with my post, as usual. My correction of their name, from PolitiFact to PolitiFake, stands. You can alert them to the fact that I'm calling them liars on social media. That would be important to them if they actually give a shit, but they know that they're liars. They won't say or do squat.

I have thousands of posts on here. You have had months to look over my posts. You have zero examples of me lying.

There are plenty of stats in this thread lol. Get your head out of the sand. It's truly pathetic.

[Shady]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, we're all quite used to the usual kicking and screaming of conservatives. What really gets my goat is when left-leaning politicians pay attention to it and fail to act to make the system better for fear of riling even more kicking and screaming.

But it's good to see conservatives finally appreciating how shitty the system is. Typically it takes a disaster or a crisis to galvanize anyone's attention at the same time.  Probably won't take long to wear off though.  Fear of free stuff and who pays the Martians off would assert itself soon enough and it'll be back to kicking and screaming as usual.

I agree.  I vote for the German health care system!