Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, Shady said:

LOL, yes the government will take over the means of production, and produce and delivery goods more efficiently! 

Sorta like a Defense Production Act you mean?  Why does capitalism need to be told what to do?

Quote

Thanks, I needed a good laugh at the end of this work week.

  You're quite welcome. I'm still laughing about a comment you made months maybe even years ago that governments need to get out of the way of our corporations so they can do what they do best, create jobs. Perhaps you were referring to the ones that moved to China.

Edited April 3, 2020 by eyeball

[marcus]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

There has already been 2 pandemics, then this one, how many more do we need to have before it's ok to take all the recommended  precautions.

Nothing comes close to what we've seen with this highly contagious virus. There is a big difference.

Quote

In a lot of Asian countries wearing of masks was mostly done because of the quality of air more than anything, them protecting themselves. 

True in other parts, like in China. In Japan, a place I lived in, people wore masks when they were sick. It's a sign of respect towards others and part of why Japan is able to function well as a society.

Edited April 3, 2020 by marcus

[taxme]

19 hours ago, marcus said:

It's not suspicious.

We have had a few viruses in the past 25 years that we have had to deal with. Conversations and warnings about potential scenarios is a regular occurance. In fact:

Trump administration ignored pandemic warning from White House economists: report

The Trump administration ignored a pandemic warning from White House economists who published a study estimating possible effects of a pandemic in September, according to a New York Times report. 

The White House study reportedly cautioned that a pandemic, like the coronavirus outbreak the world is now facing, could cause the deaths of a half-million Americans and cost the economy as much as $3.8 trillion. The study contradicts what administration officials have repeatedly said about the coronavirus coming out of nowhere and causing unforeseen devastation to the U.S. economy, the Times noted.

Link

Okay, Mr. Sky is falling down. I just told you the other day that so far this year 21,297 people from around the world have died from this so called Chinese virus. There were 113,034 people that have died this year from the seasonal flu around the world. Wow, eh? Quite a difference in numbers, eh? When are lemmings like you ever going to get it. You are being scammed. I have given you a couple of websites to go visit and see what other people in the alternative media are saying. You have to be a liberal, socialist, or communist because you will not ever try to get the other side of the story. You would make a great comrade if you are not one already. Just saying.   

Hey, I bet that you did not know that while Canadians are going thru hell trying to make ends meet, your I could careless about Canadian brainwashing politicians like Trudeau just gave themselves a pay raise. I guess that is why King Trudeau is raising the carbon taxes by 50%, eh? What nerve and what contempt these politicians have for we the sheeple. I wonder if the liberal conservative party took that raise also? What they all should have done was to forget about a pay raise and keep that money for the needs of Canadians in this time of this so called virus pandemic.

Leave Trump out of your rantings and ravings. Worry more about your own country instead. Who gives a shit if Trump ignored the pandemic warning. So, did your buffoon of a prime mistake. Your dear leader is worse than Trump could ever be. Why people like you prefer to attack and mock Trump rather than your own village idiot of a leader is beyond me. 

And when Trudeau tells all of us to stay in doors and not come out of their homes if someone has the virus, like his wife supposedly has, what does this fool do? He walks out of the house and onto the steps of his home violating his own rules. But anyway lemming. Carry on in your state of panic and fear over nothing. That is only for fools and idiots and sadly there are just too many of them living in Canada. I will continually go out and not be in any fear or panic of catching some flu bug.  Now be a good boy and keep on isolating yourself. 

[marcus]

38 minutes ago, taxme said:

Okay, Mr. Sky is falling down. I just told you the other day that so far this year 21,297 people from around the world have died from this so called Chinese virus. There were 113,034 people that have died this year from the seasonal flu around the world. Wow, eh? Quite a difference in numbers, eh? When are lemmings like you ever going to get it.

You need to expand your thinking and the way you think.

Are you still trying to compare the flu with the coronavirus? You realize that even Trump is not doing that anymore.

Are countries and provinces lying about not being able to handle the coronavirus patients? Are we not running out of supplies? Are all of this a conspiracy theory? How is what is happening now as a result of the coronavirus anything remotely close to the flu?

How do you expect people to respond to you, when you are not willing to or able to educate yourself on issues you have so much opinion about?

Edited April 3, 2020 by marcus

[marcus]

21 minutes ago, taxme said:

And when Trudeau tells all of us to stay in doors and not come out of their homes if someone has the virus, like his wife supposedly has, what does this fool do? He walks out of the house and onto the steps of his home violating his own rules. But anyway lemming. 

Look at what you're writing.

You have such a hard-on for Trudeau, that you can't even think straight. Even when he is actually practicing social distancing, you are yelling and screaming and somehow have it in your head that he is not. 

[Shady]

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sorta like a Defense Production Act you mean?  Why does capitalism need to be told what to do?

  You're quite welcome. I'm still laughing about a comment you made months maybe even years ago that governments need to get out of the way of our corporations so they can do what they do best, create jobs. Perhaps you were referring to the ones that moved to China.

The Defense Production Act doesn't take over the means of production.  It directs companies what to produce.  Capitalism doesn't need to be told what to do.  But the normal market, ie demand for masks, etc isn't as high as it is in an emergency.  So they're asked to produce more of something they don't normally produce, or at least in such large quantities.  The market would move toward that anyways, especially with the prices some of these products are fetching now a days!  You can make a fortune now!  

No, the United States had a 3.5% unemployment rate before the pandemic hit.  Largely due to corporations, big and small, adding so many jobs over the last several years.  

[Shady]

21 minutes ago, marcus said:

You need to expand your thinking and the way you think.

Are you still trying to compare the flu with coronavirus? You realize that even Trump is not doing that anymore.

Are countries and provinces lying about not being able to handle the coronavirus patients? Are we not running out of supplies? Are all of this a conspiracy theory? How is what is happening now as a result of the coronavirus anything remotely close to the flu?

How do you expect people to respond to you, when you are not willing to or able to educate yourself on issues you have so much opinion about?

I tend to agree, except that even if we were experiencing an influenza outbreak, we'd still be seeing deaths in the thousand.   The regular flu has killed some 10,000 this season in the United States.  It's just not being broadcast on the news every day.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Shady said:

I tend to agree, except that even if we were experiencing an influenza outbreak, we'd still be seeing deaths in the thousand.   The regular flu has killed some 10,000 this season in the United States.  It's just not being broadcast on the news every day.

More contagious, more lethal, no vaccine or treatment except ventilation.  

[Shady]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

More contagious, more lethal, no vaccine or treatment except ventilation.  

Yes, I know that it's more contagious, and more lethal.  We'd still be experiencing a spike in deaths with a regular influenza outbreak.  Not as much, but it would still spike.  There are some treatments though, but in the early stages.  Ontario projected 1600 deaths by the end of April.  That's fairly underwhelming.  Considering there are like 3 million people in Toronto alone.

[marcus]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes, I know that it's more contagious, and more lethal.  We'd still be experiencing a spike in deaths with a regular influenza outbreak.  Not as much, but it would still spike.  There are some treatments though, but in the early stages.  Ontario projected 1600 deaths by the end of April.  That's fairly underwhelming.  Considering there are like 3 million people in Toronto alone.

There are thousands more that need to be hospitalized. Our healthcare system cannot handle that. In Italy, they have gotten to the point where they had to choose between who to treat and keep alive and who to not due to lack of workers, facilities, beds, ventilators and other supplies. 

[taxme]

11 minutes ago, marcus said:

You need to expand your thinking and the way you think.

Are you still trying to compare the flu with coronavirus? You realize that even Trump is not doing that anymore.

Are countries and provinces lying about not being able to handle the coronavirus patients? Are we not running out of supplies? Are all of this a conspiracy theory? How is what is happening now as a result of the coronavirus anything remotely close to the flu?

How do you expect people to respond to you, when you are not willing to or able to educate yourself on issues you have so much opinion about?

Again, there you go with Trump? But you do not like Trump. Get back to Canada will you and look for more faults about your dear comrade leader. 

So, just what proof do you really have to make me want to believe all that you have said above is all for real? Have you done your own research like run out and check a few hospitals to see just how bad it really is? Many have done so, and many have come back and said it did not appear as bad as the media says it was. So, should I believe you and your dear comrade leaders, or the lying media, or those that will question more and go out to see if what they are being told is true or not? 

Do you honestly believe that countries and provinces and their dear leaders do not lie at all? They all tell the truth all the time and would never lie to you? They are adding all other kinds of seasonal flu numbers of people who get sick or die to the Corona Chinese virus list. 

Don't try to lecture me. You are not even willing to listen to others who also have something to say about this so called virus pandemic. you take for gospel what your dear leaders and the media tell you without questioning any of it. How do expect people like me to respond to people like you if you won't make the effort to try and get the other side of the story? It would appear as though you also have opinions about things? So, what's your point? 

1. 21,297 have supposedly died this virus all over the world since 2020. 

2. 113,034 have died from the seasonal flu so far this year. 

3. 228,095 from malaria deaths.

4. 390,908 from HIV/AIDS deaths.

5. 2,000,000 Alcohol/Tobacco deaths.

6. 1,909,804 from cancer. 

7. There is more if you want more. 

You can believe whatever you want to believe and so will I. Believe that or not. 

[Shady]

1 minute ago, marcus said:

There are thousands more that need to be hospitalized. Our healthcare system cannot handle that. In Italy, they have gotten to the point where they had to choose between who to treat and keep alive and who to not due to lack of workers, facilities, beds, ventilators and other supplies. 

Yes I know, because everybody got sick at the same time.

[marcus]

3 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes I know, because everybody got sick at the same time.

It's also highly contagious. 

Anyone with low immunity could end up very sick and possibly die. 

[marcus]

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

Again, there you go with Trump? But you do not like Trump. Get back to Canada will you and look for more faults about your dear comrade leader. 

Because of how your brain functions, you see any criticism of Trump as words coming from the enemy. Like everything is black and white. You're either with us or against us. It doesn't matter that I have critiqued Trudeau several times about his handling of the situation.

Trump dropped the ball on the virus. Now that it's too late and we're seeing the results, he is finally admitting the enormity of the situation. He is contradicting what you are saying. So if you're not going to take the words of doctors and scientists, maybe you should listen to Trump.

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

So, just what proof do you really have to make me want to believe all that you have said above is all for real? Have you done your own research like run out and check a few hospitals to see just how bad it really is? Many have done so, and many have come back and said it did not appear as bad as the media says it was. So, should I believe you and your dear comrade leaders, or the lying media, or those that will question more and go out to see if what they are being told is true or not? 

Yes. I have done research. Enough of it to know that hospitals are not able to handle the number of sick people, who have been hit by the coronavirus. 

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

Do you honestly believe that countries and provinces and their dear leaders do not lie at all?

You think that ALL hospitals, doctors, nurses, media, mayors, premiers, and country leaders are LYING? That they are part of some conspiracy to take over your freedom? 

C'mon.

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

They all tell the truth all the time and would never lie to you? They are adding all other kinds of seasonal flu numbers of people who get sick or die to the Corona Chinese virus list. 

They are adding the seasonal flu to the list? WHERE do you get this information? How do you come up with these?

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

Don't try to lecture me. You are not even willing to listen to others who also have something to say about this so called virus pandemic.

No. I am responding to your ridiculous conspiracy theories. 

[Rue]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Nothing comes close to what we've seen with this highly contagious virus. There is a big difference.

True in other parts, like in China. In Japan, a place I lived in, people wore masks when they were sick. It's a sign of respect towards others and part of why Japan is able to function well as a society.

It is also  sign of fear.. Masks  are needed by health care providers not you and I...

[Shady]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

True in other parts, like in China. In Japan, a place I lived in, people wore masks when they were sick. It's a sign of respect towards others and part of why Japan is able to function well as a society.

That and they have zero immigration.  So they have a cohesive culture with the same values, traditions, etc.

[Rue]

51 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes I know, because everybody got sick at the same time.

That is a point I am afraid just will not register for some..on a brighter note although it's very early still the pens seem to be coming in the heavy hit areas of Spain and Italy...also early tests on anti malaria medication seems to be promising....again very early but actest on lupusxand non lupus patients is very promising....anyways ....

[marcus]

3 minutes ago, Shady said:

That and they have zero immigration.  So they have a cohesive culture with the same values, traditions, etc.

Singapore is a multi-ethnic society and they have a cohesive culture where they respect each other and the rule of law.

 

[Rue]

13 minutes ago, Shady said:

That and they have zero immigration.  So they have a cohesive culture with the same values, traditions, etc.

Us Trekies call them the Borg. You hit on a point...it's called cultural values.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

8 minutes ago, marcus said:

Singapore is a multi-ethnic society and they have a cohesive culture where they respect each other and the rule of law.

 

You are observing another culture highly populated and condensed and based on different values as to individuality and creativity. If we are suggesting we all adapt Singapore culture to prevent viruses that is absurd. Think about it. Chima is the extreme example of this kind of culture and it is the origins today of most of these viruses. Any society has viruses. It depends on standards of cleanliness regardless of culture. On the other hand you are dead on suggesting we follow Singapore's lead on early testing and standards of cleanliness..Japan too... which I know is your real point...so hopefully we can learn from their early warning and testing protocols..especially large urban centers.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Rue

[marcus]

7 minutes ago, Rue said:

You are observing another culture highly populated and condensed and based on different values as to individuality and creativity. If we are suggesting we all adapt Singapore culture to prevent viruses that is absurd.

I was responding to Shady's anti-immigration comment.

[Rue]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

More contagious, more lethal, no vaccine or treatment except ventilation.  

Hang on Z while I respond but with respect. 

There are treatments now leading to recovery rates.

 Furthermore we have no accurate data to make the conclusion this virus is more contagious or lethal than other viruses. It is far too early to jump to such conclusions.

Yes in one sense all viruses are equally contagious and of  course this one is 

Further there are no vaccines for many lethal viruses such as aids..but it doesn't mean aids kills as it used to or the other viruses will..not if alternative medical treatment regimes prove effective. As we speak  a variety of approaches are being used and some are working better than others. It is not an automatic death sentence for all who contract it.

Next, Sars became far less contagious as it mutated but more harder to treat.So in onecsensevit became more lethal, but in another sense less lethal.

Further, determining how lethal a virus is can not be determined over a short period of time not to mention has not taken into analysis all actual cases let alone all cases where people recovered. 

We do not have that info.

Our reported cases are not all the cases. As well people now who die with the virus did not necessarily die from having had the virus but it is reported that way.

They could have had the infections that killed them prior to getting the virus and would have died anyways which means ths virus blamed for their deaths did not contribute to their deaths and was coincidental not the contributor of their death causing more distortion to the accuracy of how we extrapolate rates of death.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

38 minutes ago, marcus said:

I was responding to Shady's anti-immigration comment.

Yah I know me too and of course  I am not sure blaming multiculturalism for this virus is meaningful. 

I also do not take what Shady said as being anti immigrant or anti cultural. ju

You both raise valid respectful  discussions entitled to respectful responses.

I do suppose cultural values do relate to cleanliness and all cultures across the world face hygiene issues some harder than others due to lack of facilities and water.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Rue

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

The Defense Production Act doesn't take over the means of production.  It directs companies what to produce.  Capitalism doesn't need to be told what to do.  But the normal market, ie demand for masks, etc isn't as high as it is in an emergency.  So they're asked to produce more of something they don't normally produce, or at least in such large quantities.

So you're suggesting the Act simply allows the government to ask companies to please be nice enough to produce this desperately needed emergency equipment?

Quote

The market would move toward that anyways, especially with the prices some of these products are fetching now a days!  You can make a fortune now!

Just don't let Doug Ford catch you trying to do that. 

Quote

No, the United States had a 3.5% unemployment rate before the pandemic hit.  Largely due to corporations, big and small, adding so many jobs over the last several years.

And then...shit happened and the US government has to resort to socialism and ask capitalism to please come rescue it. 

 

[Tdot]

On March 20, 2020 at 2:11 PM, WestCanMan said:

Not even one lib supporter can say a word in Trudeau's defence, and yet our media hasn't raised even a single question. 

 

IMHO it's because Canada is just like the USA;  Liberal Dems own the country's major-media outlets