Panic, Ignorance, Shut Up Already

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

So just wreck the economy because you assume it will work even though it won't? Great plan.

No!!!!!  The costs of hunger, crime, mental health, and deaths related to economic hardship  will outweigh the costs of treating sporadic cases of the virus.  Do you want to kill off everyone relying on a pension?  What about young unsupportable children?  All we can do is try to get to zero new cases like China then get back to work in a much more controlled environment.  Not getting back to work within a few months means extreme hardship and deaths for many.  

Edited March 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Iceni warrior]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Why just prisoners?  I have to say, being pro choice, that I believe anyone should have the option of trying experimental drugs for any condition, if they are given the opportunity.

And I think the opportunity should always be there whenever a volunteer is there.

He backtracked into making it optional after being confronted with the imorality of his suggestion.

His first instinct was to suggest prisoners were expendable members of society.

[Yzermandius19]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No!!!!!  The costs of hunger, crime, mental health, and deaths related to economic hardship  will outweigh the costs of treating sporadic cases of the virus.  Do you want to kill off everyone relying on a pension?  What about young unsupportable children?  All we can do is try to get to zero new cases like China then get back to work in a much more controlled environment. 

You buying into China's numbers just shows how guillible you really are. China is going to get hit with a second wave, and none of their draconian precautions are going to prevent it, all they did was destroy their economy to slow down the inevitable. If you think the Chinese model is the way to go, then you're a commie stooge. Mass quarantines of everyone do not create herd immunity, China is still majorly vulnerable to the Coronavirus and slowing it down just increases the length of time they are vulnerable for.

You want to believe that if government just acts quickly enough with super draconian measures, then everything is going to be okay, and if they don't, then the sky is going to fall. But that is simply you giving way too much credit to government intervention in stopping Coronavirus.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Iceni warrior said:

He backtracked into making it optional after being confronted with the imorality of his suggestion.

His first instinct was to suggest prisoners were expendable members of society.

Ah yes, I see the Mengele reference...

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You buying into China's numbers just shows how guillible you really are. China is going to get hit with a second wave, and none of their draconian precautions are going to prevent it, all they did was destroy their economy to slow down the inevitable. If you think the Chinese model is the way to go, then you're a commie stooge. Mass quarantines of everyone do not create herd immunity, China is still majorly vulnerable to the Coronavirus and slowing it down just increases the length of time they are vulnerable for.

You want to believe that if government just acts quickly enough with super draconian measures, then everything is going to be okay, and if they don't, then the sky is going to fall. But that is simply you giving way too much credit to government intervention in stopping Coronavirus.

No, I care about minimizing deaths and maximizing the number of people being able to eat.  No money means no production and vice versa.  Both equal national Jonestown massacre.  

Edited March 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Argus]

15 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

It's not only that. They lied to us, because they didn't have enough masks for themselves, so they didn't want the public to go out and get masks.

Pretty much. They knew there was a shortage well over a month ago. They banned wholesalers and manufacturers from distributing them to retail outlets What they should have done was begun a crash program to acquire or make our own masks. Taiwan is a third smaller than us and is producing ten million masks a day. If everyone out there wears one when they go out the odds of spreading the virus are greatly diminished. What did the government do with the advance warning we had? Nothing whatsoever. Only now are they talking about getting industry to make masks, face shields, goggles and the like, and building more ventilators. There was no preparation at all.

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

I have anti malaria drugs. I went to the rain forest last year, and brought them as a precaution. I better shut up before the government confiscates them from me LoL

Sweet!

They've got some nasty side-effects even when they're new. You might want to make sure they're not past their expiry date.

[Rue]

38 minutes ago, Boges said:

The OP on this thread has aged very poorly. 

A 3% death rate is HUGE! 

Italy is seeing hundreds of deaths a day. 

First off if we went by your logic 97 per cent not dying is what colossal?

You use 3 percent because what? It is a meaningless no. You do not know the actual no. of cases and the actual causes of death from the deaths reported. You rely on incomplete stats. By the way the OP not aging well means what..that some of us do not join a group insecurity about death? 

[Argus]

If these medical models are correct we'd need to quarantine like this for 8-18 months, and I just do not think this is doable. I think we need to go the way of Taiwan instead, and do aggressive testing, tracking and isolation of those who test positive. There is simply no way we can shut down the economy and schools for that long.

Canadians may have to face 32 weeks of aggressive social distancing to prevent thousands of deaths — nearly eight months to keep intensive care units from being overrun with the sick and get us closer to when vaccination may be a possibility, according to outbreak modelling by researchers at the University of Toronto and University of Guelph.

“Aggressive social distancing for 32 weeks does act to slow transmission significantly and essentially flatten the curve,” says Dr. Amy Greer, Canada Research Chair in Population Disease Modelling at the U of Guelph.

https://nationalpost.com/health/could-the-covid-19-crisis-mean-well-be-social-distancing-for-eight-months-or-more?video_autoplay=true

[Yzermandius19]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, I care about minimizing deaths and maximizing the number of people being able to eat.  No money means no production and vice versa.  Both equal national Jonestown massacre.  

You have good intentions, but your solutions simply make things worse, and result in the worst of both worlds double whammy style, while making you feel like you are helping, even though you are actually doing the opposite.

Having good intentions doesn't mean you know how to implement good solutions.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You have good intentions, but your solutions simply make things worse. Having good intentions doesn't mean you know how to implement good solutions.

We know who is implementing good decisions: Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea. Why are we not imitating them instead of Italy?

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

We know who is implementing good decisions: Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea. Why are we not imitating them instead of Italy?

Because Italy got more draconian in it's crackdowns, and the press prefers to live in world where they think more government intervention makes everything better. It makes them feel safer, even when the opposite is true. South Korea didn't panic and shut everything down, so the people who do want to panic and shut everything down out of ignorance ignore that example that flies in the face of their overreaction, and want the China-Italy model instead.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Because Italy got more draconian in it's crackdowns, and the press prefers to live in world where they think more government intervention makes everything better. It makes them feel safer, even when the opposite is true.

Government intervention in Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea is arguably heavier than here. But instead of shutting down their economies they're doing mass testing, even those who have no symptoms, and mandating isolation for those who test positive.

Unfortunately, since we did nothing to prepare for this, we don't have the lab capacity or the test kits to do mass testing.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Argus

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, Argus said:

Government intervention in Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea is arguably heavier than here. But instead of shutting down their economies they're doing mass testing, even those who have no symptoms, and mandating isolation for those who test positive.

Testing isn't draconian, shutting down the economy is. South Korea was less heavy handed than China or Italy, and that is why their model is being ignored by the panic monkeys who think the more government panic in shutting down the economy, the more things are under control.

They think hurting the economy is the best way to battle the coronavirus, because the media are knee-jerk nanny state fools who think times are more desperate than they really are, and are therefore only willing to think that desperate measures are the only effective ones, because they are in a panic and are unable to think straight.

They think suggesting more effective measures simply means you want everyone to die, otherwise you'd support their draconian proposals that are counter-productive. That way they can easily dismiss any disagreement with their position as only people with bad intentions hold those views and everyone with good intentions agrees with us, so no need to pay those who disagree any mind other than to get angry at them and act like a sanctimonious twat.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Rue]

Ok Y I gotta strongly agree. You see I dislike trump not yooz. Lol. Seriously I agree and I am apolitical on this but shutting down world economies makes no sense. 

[Boges]

52 minutes ago, Rue said:

First off if we went by your logic 97 per cent not dying is what colossal?

You use 3 percent because what? It is a meaningless no. You do not know the actual no. of cases and the actual causes of death from the deaths reported. You rely on incomplete stats. By the way the OP not aging well means what..that some of us do not join a group insecurity about death? 

So either its 3% based on current stats or 1% and WAY more people are getting it. 

Which means it's more infectious that any seasonal flu. 

What's dangerous about this flu is that many people are getting it without symptoms and are knowingly spreading it. 

Any sense of perspective about this should be obliterated by the state of Italy. 4,000 plus deaths in less than a month. 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

The (approximate) ten-fold difference in mortality between flu and COVID-19 matters a lot:

Quote

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-vs-the-flu-the-difference-between-a-1-and-0-1-fatality-rate-is-huge/
 

Those who suggest that the coronavirus presents no greater threat than does the seasonal flu need to answer some questions:

• Why are Italian hospitals being overrun with Covid-19 patients, and why doesn’t that happen with the seasonal flu? Why can’t that happen here?
• Why are the Iranians digging mass graves that are visible from outer space?
• Why did Communist China — a regime that cares much more about national strength than about human life — shut down factories and bring its economy to the brink of recession in an effort to contain the spread of the virus?
• Why did Japan announce a month-long closure of all schools two weeks ago, when there were only four coronavirus deaths in the entire country?
• Are we supposed to believe that the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese are panicky idiots who don’t understand math and science?

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Ok Y I gotta strongly agree. You see I dislike trump not yooz. Lol. Seriously I agree and I am apolitical on this but shutting down world economies makes no sense. 

It makes perfect sense if you believe that after 14 or 21 days the virus will be completely eradicated and won't come back again.

It makes no sense if you realize that this virus will be around for at least the next year. Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea had less time to prepare for this than we did but they all handled it much faster and better.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

So either its 3% based on current stats or 1% and WAY more people are getting it. 

Which means it's more infectious that any seasonal flu. 

What's dangerous about this flu is that many people are getting it without symptoms and are knowingly spreading it. 

Any sense of perspective about this should be obliterated by the state of Italy. 4,000 plus deaths in less than a month. 

 

I will get you some stuff on Italy later. Sorry I need to prepare on line class... but you deserve more info from me if I am going to try address your genuine concerns as to those no.'s. I respect your point. I will get back to you on it. Please know I respect your point. I am trying to give you other info if I can. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Rue

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You have good intentions, but your solutions simply make things worse, and result in the worst of both worlds double whammy style, while making you feel like you are helping, even though you are actually doing the opposite.

Having good intentions doesn't mean you know how to implement good solutions.

You want success?  Do what China has done the past two months, followed by reduced groupings and an economy.  You have no solution except economic collapse.  

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You want success?  Do what China has done the past two months, followed by reduced groupings and an economy.  You have no solution except economic collapse.  

Much of what they did is not legal in Canada, even under the Emergency Measures Act

They can't start welding the doors shut on apartment buildings here trapping the residents inside, just by the fire code alone.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You want success?  Do what China has done the past two months, followed by reduced groupings and an economy.  You have no solution except economic collapse.  

Be like China is not how to be successful, that how to squander your potential by being communists.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Be like China is not how to be successful, that how to squander your potential by being communists.

Zeitgeist wets his pants and goes full on Xi JInping, when the shit hasn't even hit the fan yet, knee jerk Canadian nanny police stater.

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Zeitgeist wets his pants and goes full on Xi JInping, when the shit hasn't even hit the fan yet, knee jerk Canadian nanny police stater.

You guys seriously don’t get it.  It’s too late for the South Korean approach here.  They have far more beds and supplies and they began intensively testing early.  The medical preparation they did over years isn’t available at the snap of our fingers.  Their main success was in implementing draconian quarantining.  They couldn’t test everyone, only 300,000 people, more than anyone else.  We’ll test as many people as we can as quickly as we can. Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, and belatedly China, all moved to extreme quarantine and testing.  Even now the public schools aren’t open.  It’s worked out better for S. Korea, but now, through extreme measures, China is in actually in a position to reopen the marketplace in a careful way.  Not the case for Europe and North America.  We are doing the long-term mamby pamby, which means unsuccessful quarantine and collapsing economy. We need to get down to serious action.  
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/south-korea-rapid-intrusive-measures-covid-19

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 We are doing the long-term mamby pamby, which means unsuccessful quarantine and collapsing economy. 

As I always knew they would, the trick to being a Disaster Capitalist is not to focus on what should happen but rather what is most likely to happen

That's the thing, when the Chinese were doing what they were doing, I knew that wasn't going to happen here and so this was going to hit the economy here harder.

That is why I say ; don't go by the Chinese clock where this is going to be over in three months, pace yourself for a long war

Edited March 21, 2020 by Dougie93