Non-confidence

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s pure racist apartheid garbage, having reserves for certain races and giving them money because the public thinks they’re incapable of taking care of themselves.  It’s pitiful.  Scrap it all lock stock and barrel.  Get off the reserve and the tax breaks.  Join the real world of personal responsibility like many other successful Indigenous have.  Drop the stereotypes.  

Drop the what?

Maybe it would be better if you just go back where you came from instead, we don't need your type around here.

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Drop the what?

Maybe it would be better if you just go back where you came from instead, we don't need your type around here.

“Go back where you came from” says all I need to know, Eyeball.  You reveal your racism in that remark.  

[eyeball]

37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

“Go back where you came from” says all I need to know, Eyeball.  You reveal your racism in that remark.  

Isn't that what you tell people from elsewhere who refuse to fit in?  Elsewhere isn't a race, get a grip.

[betsy]

If things go on the way they are - and, Canadians really feel the impact of these illegal blockades - I think all oppositions - whether they're ready or not -  will be forced to support a motion to bring down the government. 

Or, they'll be forced  to call for provincial police  to enforce the law!  They'll have no option.   Sooner or later, violence will become inevitable!

 

They shouldn't tarry any longer.  It's better to get the cops to do their jobs now.  Don't wait to get an enraged public to become vigilantes!

 

 

 

'Potential catastrophe': Rail blockades disrupt supply chains for food — which may lead to grocery shortages

Manufacturers scramble to deliver products, industry warns of potential shortages of propane and chlorine and mining companies curtail production

https://business.financialpost.com/transportation/rail/potential-catastrophe-rail-blockades-disrupt-supply-chains-for-food-which-may-lead-to-grocery-shortages

 

 

This stalling and displayed weakness by the Feds only enboldens more protesters to form blockades wherever they choose!  The demands range from showing solidarity to environmentalism, to demands for clean water, to human rights etc....,  how can you deal with all that?

 

Lol.  You can be sure that every time we have a liberal/socialist government - this blockades will become the norm for every issue they disagree with!

Edited February 20, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

"This is unacceptable!"

How many times did Trudeau started his response with that line?   I heard it again yesterday on Question Period.

Not only is it ridiculous - but it sounds so pathetically stupid coming from a Prime Minister - especially when what he calls , "unacceptable" .................

................has been going on.............................. for more than two weeks!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by betsy

[SkyHigh]

16 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada is simply an agreement called Confederation, it has nothing to do with your standard of living, the failed state of Confederation simply being propped up by America.

You like to make this claim alot, do you even know what a confederation is? Seriously!

Propped up? Please explain how we can have a higher standard of living than the foreign state that props us up, or even easier how this failed country can manage to have a better credit rating internationally than those who prop us up?

Maybe you can do it without resorting to threats of gun violence like the last time i asked you to provide any evidence for your ridiculous assertions.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Propped up? Please explain how we can have a higher standard of living than the foreign state that props us up, or even easier how this failed country can manage to have a better credit rating internationally than those who prop us up?

 

Easily explained by so much foreign ownership and foreign direct investment, purposely solicited for decades.  

Canada lacks the market size and domestic capital to do otherwise.

 

[SkyHigh]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Easily explained by so much foreign ownership and foreign direct investment, purposely solicited for decades.  

Canada lacks the market size and domestic capital to do otherwise.

 

So explain, are you saying that the US owns our banking system? 

A small market compared to other G7 nations yes, but big enough to be part of the G7

Edited February 20, 2020 by SkyHigh

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, SkyHigh said:

So explain, are you saying that the US owns our banking system? 

 

No, I am saying that Canada's banking system starves the country of available venture capital so more foreign investment is required, even if not desired.

Canadian banks are permitted in the USA, which is a growing portfolio for them, but the reverse is not true.

The U.S. Fed has more influence than the Bank of Canada, for obvious reasons.

[SkyHigh]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, I am saying that Canada's banking system starves the country of available venture capital so more foreign investment is required, even if not desired.

Canadian banks are permitted in the USA, which is a growing portfolio for them, but the reverse is not true.

The U.S. Fed has more influence than the Bank of Canada, for obvious reasons.

The question is not how Canada can or should compete in a global market, but if the US is some how propping up Canada, and the success of our banks during the subprime mortgage crisis exemplifies how our system is independent of the states. The fact that the US invest in our banks and the reverse is not true supports my argument, and the idea that the states willfully decided to prop up Canadian banks at the expense of their own is just silly

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, SkyHigh said:

The question is not how Canada can or should compete in a global market, but if the US is some how propping up Canada, and the success of our banks during the subprime mortgage crisis exemplifies how our system is independent of the states. The fact that the US invest in our banks and the reverse is not true supports my argument, and the idea that the states willfully decided to prop up Canadian banks at the expense of their own is just silly

 

The issue goes back to the original FTA/NAFTA battles that warned Canada would become too dependent on foreign (American) ownership and export market, and that is exactly what happened.   Now China is playing the same game. 

The idea that Canada lacks sufficient domestic capital is not mine or new, and is manifested in many areas besides banking (e.g. healthcare infrastructure, R&D, worker productivity, manufacturing base, petroleum/bitumen production, digital media platforms, etc.).

[SkyHigh]

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, i would add some nuance though.

I feel you're diverting from my original objection to the statement that "Canada is propped up by the US"

Of course we are interdependent with the US, and Canada is undoubtedly more dependent on the US for our economic strength, there are other factors that contribute to this also, including the fact that we sell raw materials to then rebuy those same materials but processed when we should invest in processing those things here, the bce(mad cow) issue we had a while ago prove that when forced we can process raw materials and when we do so it's better for our economy. Again the issue I had objection to was we are "propped up" by the states and you have yet to provide a justification for that statement.

I will return to the same example as i feel it accurately represents my view, not only did our banks make it through the US caused 2008 financial crisis, we were lauded internationally for the strength of our banks, and we continue to be higher rated than our US contemporaries. If Canada was propped up by the US it would stand to reason that if the states were in a major financial crisis we would not make it through unscathed.

 

Though you're obviously not obliged to focus on the banking issue(i do feel not addressing it specifically, as it is a totally relevant and possibly the best matrix to the topic at hand, should be seen as a cop out) Please stick to the issue at hand

Edited February 20, 2020 by SkyHigh

[bush_cheney2004]

16 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

.... Again the issue I had objection to was we are "propped up" by the states and you have yet to provide a justification for that statement. I will return to the same example as i feel it accurately represents my view, not only did our banks make it through the US caused 2008 financial crisis, we were lauded internationally for the strength of our banks, we continue to be higher rated than our US contemporaries. Though you're obviously not obliged to focus on the banking issue(i do feel not addressing it specifically, as it is a totally relevant and possibly the best matrix to the topic at hand, should be seen as a cop out) Please stick to the issue at hand

 

Well, the issue at hand here is actually no-confidence because of the current impasses in Canada that is having an economic impact no matter what the banking sector may do.   I never claimed that the U.S. was "propping up" Canada, but clearly and by your own admission Canada is more dependent on the U.S. economy.   Several Canadian and other foreign banks were also bailed out by the U.S. Fed in 2008-2009.

You really have to find more than just banking standards to hold Canada up as the best for anything when political, economic. and social issues still divide and unsettle matters north of the border, same as in other nations.

The blockade matters will not be soothed by telling all of Canada just how great the banking system is.   And I probably don't have to tell you that many Canadian consumers are quite fed up with the monopolies of banking and telecom, poor service, high costs, etc.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[SkyHigh]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, the issue at hand here is actually no-confidence because of the current impasses in Canada that is having an economic impact no matter what the banking sector may do.   I never claimed that the U.S. was "propping up" Canada, but clearly and by your own admission Canada is more dependent on the U.S. economy.   Several Canadian and other banks were also bailed out by the U.S. Fed in 2008-2009.

You really have to find more than just banking standards to hold Canada up as the best for anything when political, economic. and social issues still divide and unsettle matters north of the border, same as in other nations.

The blockade matters will not be soothed by telling all of Canada just how great the banking system is.   And I probably don't have to tell you that many Canadian consumers are quite fed up with the monopolies of banking and telecom, poor service, high costs, etc.

 

Actually, you responded directly to " Propped up? Please explain"

Propped up is defined as to stop somthing from falling by placing something under it. Interdependent is defined as two or more things dependant on each other, a clear difference.

Of course we're a little more dependent on the US they're the biggest consumers on the planet with a population and economy 10x our size, and yes it is a potential problem that we are so reliant on the strength of a foreign states economy, but that is a far cry from being "propped up"

Never did I "hold Canada up as the best for anything" our banks are given a better credit rating than the states that's just a fact, and i use it as an example because the strength of a nations banking system is a pretty good indicator of their financial independence and sovereignty, and that we made it through a crisis caused by the US that did very little damage to our economy (in fact it allowed many snow birds to acquire real estate at rock bottom prices) shows we can and do thrive independent of what the US does

[Rue]

14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

F@ck Canada. <spits>

 

It would be amazing if people listened to it when they needed shelter; it would be lovely if they didn't spit on it.

Lykke Li

 

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Actually, you responded directly to " Propped up? Please explain"

Propped up is defined as to stop somthing from falling by placing something under it. Interdependent is defined as two or more things dependant on each other, a clear difference.

 

Another member posited "propped Up"...I  just provided several reasons that may be the perception, true or imagined.   Canada is "propped up" militarily without question IMHO.

 

Quote

Of course we're a little more dependent on the US they're the biggest consumers on the planet with a population and economy 10x our size, and yes it is a potential problem that we are so reliant on the strength of a foreign states economy, but that is a far cry from being "propped up"

 

It is a political and economic problem when Canada has far less leverage in trade negotiations because of it.   Confidence in the current government, or lack thereof, began long before the blockades (e.g. trade, foreign policy, illegal border crossings, etc.).

 

Quote

Never did I "hold Canada up as the best for anything" our banks are given a better credit rating than the states that's just a fact, and i use it as an example because the strength of a nations banking system is a pretty good indicator of their financial independence and sovereignty, and that we made it through a crisis caused by the US that did very little damage to our economy (in fact it allowed many snow birds to acquire real estate at rock bottom prices) shows we can and do thrive independent of what the US does

 

If it is so great, why would any crisis in the United States ever have an impact ?   

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

They're winning that vote and the law will be changed to reflect a new common sense.

How can all 4 of them win it? That doesn't make any sense at all.

And what "law" are you talking about?

Quote

It's even better for the country that you rightists cast the left the way you do. It only hardens its resolve like snow turning to ice.

No one is casting the leftists in any way. They are what they are - liars, hypocrites and idiots. 

You get caught saying things that are untrue on here all the time and only you know you reasons but I know that you're not dumb enough to say a lot of the things that you do. You just think you can get away with it. 

[SkyHigh]

8 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Several Canadian and other banks were also bailed out by the U.S. Fed in 2008-2009.

really? Citation please

We didn't invest in subprime mortgages(or more specifically those that insured the bad loans) so why would we need to be bailed out? And why would the states give money to our banks when ours were fine and theirs were flailing?

[Shady]

19 hours ago, Grand Mal said:

Best for the country if the Tories are excluded from government.

I'm not sure that excluding a party that received more votes than any other party in the last election is a good idea.

[Shady]

9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

“Go back where you came from” says all I need to know, Eyeball.  You reveal your racism in that remark.  

Eyeball is a raging hypocrite.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

really? Citation please

We didn't invest in subprime mortgages(or more specifically those that insured the bad loans) so why would we need to be bailed out? And why would the states give money to our banks when ours were fine and theirs were flailing?

 

Because the U.S. Fed and CMHC had to keep liquid assets/credit available for the banking system in Canada.  It wasn't a "gift".

Explained here:

Canada Bank Bailout: Yes, There Was One, And Here's Why It's Important To Remember That

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Shady]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

That's a superficial statement that ignores the historical facts. Do you think Chretien would have had a surplus through the recession? I remind you, if you aren't aware, that he ran large deficits the first four years he was in power. The surpluses didn't come until the US economy started booming and dragged ours along with it. After then he ran surpluses largely because he had no ambition to do anything with the money, and wanted it kept ready at hand should the divided conservatives join up and challenge him The instant they did, the surplus was largely eliminated as Paul Martin splurged ahead of  an election. He also made so many electoral promises we'd have been back in deficit even without a new recession.

 

Exactly.  And Trudeau was handed a budget that was almost in balance when he took office.  But he quickly blew that up.

[Shady]

17 hours ago, Grand Mal said:

Because they spend like drunken sailors.

If you think that spending was bad, just wait until you find out about Trudeau's! 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

stupid coming from a Prime Minister -

That's par for the course these days.

[SkyHigh]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada is "propped up" militarily without question IMHO.

Perceived being the operative word, we have one of the best trained ground forces in the world, and examples like the D.A.R.T unit are recognized around the world for the work they do. Honestly, propped up seems a little strong, we self identify as peace keepers, have no real enemies as we don't try and police the world and geographically are not easy to attack, how much military do we need. Costa Rica has no army, in a higher conflict area and does fine.

 

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

It is a political and economic problem when Canada has far less leverage in trade negotiations because of it. 

Again the size of our economy has nothing to do with its independence, also the WTO and other trade bodies tend to find in our favor over the states in many disputes,and we conduct trade deals between other nations without aid from the US, so again implying economic independence.

 

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

If it is so great, why would any crisis in the United States ever have an impact ?   

Because they're our neighbor and largest(by far) trading partner. If the house beside me(lets say its ten times bigger than mine) burns down and i get smoke damage, does that mean my house is propped up by thiers? Or im dependant on him to fix it? No I have my own insurance, it will of course affect me, I may not be able to park on the street because of emergency vehicles, I may have to live through the mess of construction if i suffered damages, what it won't do after all the inconvenience is diminish the value of my property, nor will it affect my ability to pay my mortgage, quite analogous to the US Canada relationship